155 replies to this topic

[saKhan Steiner Lawl Kerensky]

xNoSkillz, on 29 January 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Read the update... PGI edited the post. They reset it back to normal because their change somehow disabled clan lower arm actuators... I'm still head scratching on that one. That's like changing your mind about putting on shoes because every time you try to put on your shoes your cat gets pregnant. I just don't understand how their code could be so confusing... those things aren't even connected...

I literally laughed out loud reading this. Funny, but sadly true. I guess maybe that's why they call it the CRY-engine? Because (I'm assuming) adjusting a few database values and suddenly you lose model mechanics with your game engine seems kind of, I lack the words... odd? Be careful when you CTRL+X code I suppose? Entire par n turn up missing. ts can all of the sudde

But then again, I'm not a professional programmer.

[DI3T3R]

It's sooooooooo good that MWO is no longer Beta. Otherwise they would continue tinkering with minor details and balancing.

[Wintersdark]

xNoSkillz, on 29 January 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

It's because of the way that Ghost heat is calculated. It doesn't matter if you only have 3 AC2s on your mech... They fire fast enough that if you stagger fire even 2 of them, they start stacking counters on each other because they fire fast enough that the counters don't wear off before the next shot goes off. It's a pretty broken system if you ask me, or maybe that is intentional. I'm not sure, but I'd say that being able to get ghost heat from only 2 AC2s is pretty broken.

Exactly.

With AC/2's, it's not about whether we should have Ghost Heat or not, or even if AC/2's should have ghost heat as a balancing point or not (though that question is ridiculous, honestly). The issue is that Ghost Heat is actually broken with AC/2's. Even if you don't intend to stagger fire for any (perceived) gain, it's so damn easy to trigger ghost heat with only 2 AC/2's.

Take a standard, every-day, average Jagermech configuration: 2 AC2's, 2 AC5's. You've got one of each in each arm, because symmetry is a requirement for many of us due to some weird mental issues.

You bind the right arm to the right mouse button, and the left arm to the left mouse button, so you can fire when peeking from cover without wasting ammo hammering on a building.

Then, you strafe right, coming out of cover firing. Your right arm clears cover first, and you open fire. Then your left arm clears cover, so you press the left mouse button down too.

But,... oops. Turns out your right AC2's and left AC2's aren't firing at the same time. Note that this is the GOAL of ghost heat, to reduce front loaded damage, spread it out more.

But, as No Skills said, now you're triggering exponential ghost heat. You SHOULD be able to fire this armament without any heat issues at all, but now you'll overheat almost immediately. What's more, that will happen without any indication of why it's happening.

Ghost Heat is just broken for AC/2's.

[Wintersdark]

Leigus, on 29 January 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

So, each additional "macro-fired" AC/2 adds an increasingly severe heat penalty with each shot.

Though be aware that in this case, as I outlined above it's entirely possible and even likely to trigger this in completely normal play with 2 AC/2's without use of macros or anything.

I try to avoid discussing macros here, because of the vast legions of morons who assume that the moment a macro is involved, you're cheating, or gaining an unfair advantage, or whatever else... even if that macro is actually making your weapons worse.

[BSK]

OMG OMG OMG!

Is the Bane the next 'mech?

[Virlutris]

BSK, on 30 January 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

OMG OMG OMG!

Is the Bane the next 'mech?

Pretty sure PGI wants to finish up the most popular 3050 omnimechs before they start introducing clan battlemech designs (II-C or homegrown). Exception: Dasher (MASC).

If they did want to do it someday, they'd probably need to have the AC2 conversation before doing so.

Can you imagine 10 AC2's? 20dmgx0.78 fire rate? It would melt anything it could hit with multiple volleys. 100dmg with 5 volleys in 3.12 seconds (Less than the cooldown for an IS LL) Eek. Not nearly enough ammo with that config, but eek nonetheless.

*Achievement Unlocked: Ultimate Trollboat*

Edit: spelling

Edited by Virlutris, 30 January 2015 - 01:15 PM.

[Taynak]

yeah so when is this going to happen cuz i haven't seen **** for results...

[Gamuray]

@Taynak
They are attempting to determine why disabling ac2 ghost heat caused clan actuators to stop functioning.

Beats me how those two things could POSSIBLY be related, but such is PGI programming... or ... programming with multiple people in general...

[Telmasa]

Having it happen just before Superbowl Weekend probably didn't help.

Hopefully the AC/2 fix thing can happen over the upcoming week.

[SnagaDance]

DI3T3R, on 30 January 2015 - 03:38 AM, said:

It's sooooooooo good that MWO is no longer Beta. Otherwise they would continue tinkering with minor details and balancing.

Tinkering with minor details and balancing is exactly what you'd do outside of a Beta. All the big changes (except additional content) should have already happened in the Beta period.

Getting rid of exponential heat build up would be great. It's absolute #$!@ when I overheat within 3 seconds in one instance only to have heat build up normally in another.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Wintersdark, on 30 January 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

Ghost Heat is just broken for AC/2's.

I am still of the opinion that it was never meant to be there in the first place.
(Hence why for the first while they kept saying it was not there at all)

IE: Ghost heat on AC2s is a bug that they are only now working on.

[Surn]

I am a programmer and find it disturbing that some of the people in this thread can't imagine how heat could affect arm actuators. I have no idea how the code is laid out by PGI, but AC as a class clearly affect arm actuators. If the AC2, doesn't affect this, it is probably a work around in the code that requires a very specific situation to occur. Changing the heat generation could very easily affect the case in question and disable the arm actuators.

Edited by MechregSurn, 01 February 2015 - 09:30 PM.

[Wintersdark]

MechregSurn, on 01 February 2015 - 09:28 PM, said:

I am a programmer and find it disturbing that some of the people in this thread can't imagine how heat could affect arm actuators. I have no idea how the code is laid out by PGI, but AC as a class clearly affect arm actuators. If the AC2, doesn't affect this, it is probably a work around in the code that requires a very specific situation to occur. Changing the heat generation could very easily affect the case in question and disable the arm actuators.

Huh?

Why would ghost heat impact clan arm actuators (but not IS ones)? Illuminate us poor trogdolytes.

Obviously it did, i mean, but that's really freaking random.

[FlameDragon]

Wintersdark, on 01 February 2015 - 09:50 PM, said:

Huh?

Why would ghost heat impact clan arm actuators (but not IS ones)? Illuminate us poor trogdolytes.

Obviously it did, i mean, but that's really freaking random.

I have a little experience in programming myself and I understand where Surn is coming from. So pgi currently has it set so that clan lower arm actuators are unable to be equipped with an AC in that arm. This is the connection between clan arm actuators and ac 2s that likely caused the break, I cant tell you exactly why turning off ghost heat affected this, but like he said the coding was probably very specific and possibly any change to AC 2s could have caused this. And as for why clan and not IS I thought that part was blatantly obvious, Clan Lower arm actuators are optional add ons as well as limited in some cases such as ER PPC and/or ACs. IS arm actuators are either there or they're not, there is no situation that changes that.

Edited by FlameDragon, 01 February 2015 - 10:13 PM.

[RedDevil]

The Bane has got to win the award for the most exaggerated machine gun facade.

[Deathlike]

This change+reversion actually broke the CW API, thus causing CW Tools/Apps and the nice web map that's available online (search "MWO CW Map" to find it) to not function as intended.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

It also bears pointing out that the -original- programming of the game before even MWO Alpha, nevermind Beta, was done by another studio entirely before the project was passed on to PGI. This is likely the culprit for other weird interlocking issues, such as the SRM hitscan bugs and LRM issues that were corrected at long last with the 'Buckton Fix'.

[ShinVector]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 01 February 2015 - 11:12 PM, said:

It also bears pointing out that the -original- programming of the game before even MWO Alpha, nevermind Beta, was done by another studio entirely before the project was passed on to PGI. This is likely the culprit for other weird interlocking issues, such as the SRM hitscan bugs and LRM issues that were corrected at long last with the 'Buckton Fix'.

Hmmmm... Why say studio when you could just say Stock Cryengine - Crytech ? I missed stock cry engine predator vision mode.... Bahhh...

Watched Star Citizen's 'Around the Verse' show ?
They have a neat section called 'Bug Smasher' when they talk about bugs found/reported in the game and how they go about debugging and fixing the problem.... OOOhhhhh... Complicated stuff happening in engine... Fun to watch.

Edited by ShinVector, 01 February 2015 - 11:24 PM.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Because I'm talking about the programming originally done to make a Mechwarrior game in Cryengine. The game was originally being put together in another studio, and the programming to make 'mechs function in Cryengine was originally done by a different studio. Don't recall offhand who was originally working on it, but when it got into PGI's hands there was already a lot of the base work done for the 'mech function and combat.

[Kmieciu]

All they had to do is to change 2 numbers inside an XML file.

And they failed.

Anyone with half a brain can take a look at weapon stats file and modify it accordingly.


Just look, it's that simple:
AC/2
http://static.mwomer...apons/1018.json

AC/5
http://static.mwomer...apons/1019.json