717 replies to this topic

[RG Notch]

Kjudoon, on 12 February 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

Well, I just shared this new direction by PGI with some friends. There's 4 more people who have said 'no' to skirmish.

Good luck with your matches as you depopulate.

Oh, because I said I'd share.... according to the attitude most anti-hiders have, the last 5 minutes of this match would have been a violation of their policy because I spent 4 of them avoiding combat.

I only play skirmish on occasion because the low game population in general forces one to choose all three modes in order to get matches faster. I thought it was a stupid idea when PGI used it as a easy way to get another mode out. Some people can't seem to handle a mode that requires anything other than TDM. With no other way to end a skirmish match it was obvious this was situation was going to be an issue. So good luck with your boycott or whatever, less skirmish is a bonus in my book.

[White Bear 84]

Vassago Rain, on 01 February 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

No one tolerates having their time wasted.

If the player is making an effort to survive/try take out mechs then reporting this player is abhorrent. Had it happen to me one time, shut down to let a mech pass so I could take out its rear armor in my light, player on team is a tool and calls me out. Said player was subsequently reported and raged as a result lol.

If the player is just shutting down in the corner waiting for everyone to disconnect because they are so bored trying to find a mech that is hiding somewhere they cannot reach then that player is just being a douche wasting everyones time. It is weak behavior and does not earn anyone anything positive. Simple as that.

May be some exception to the above if said player is say playing conquest, tried to take the bases but the team is close to scoring max points. Or in assault and the enemy team is capping. No excuse in skirmish.This may be forgivable.

[V3nturis]

At First I was

And Then I was

[Spawnsalot]

Kjudoon, on 12 February 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

Well, I just shared this new direction by PGI with some friends. There's 4 more people who have said 'no' to skirmish.

Good luck with your matches as you depopulate.

Oh, because I said I'd share.... according to the attitude most anti-hiders have, the last 5 minutes of this match would have been a violation of their policy because I spent 4 of them avoiding combat.

Ditch the dramatics bud, there's nothing wrong with how you played that last 5 mins - you were clearly still actively trying to play. (Granted, there was a lot of faffing about in those last 5 mins and it was *blindingly obvious* he was lurking near your base to draw you out , but you were still playing, and that's what counts!)

As has been said numerous times before: people don't have a problem with this - if you had just run out as far as you could on the sea or went the tunnel and *hid* or otherwise refused to engage the opponent until time out, then yes, people are going to get cross and report you.

[Kjudoon]

Spawnsalot, on 13 February 2015 - 12:06 AM, said:

Ditch the dramatics bud, there's nothing wrong with how you played that last 5 mins - you were clearly still actively trying to play. (Granted, there was a lot of faffing about in those last 5 mins and it was *blindingly obvious* he was lurking near your base to draw you out , but you were still playing, and that's what counts!)

As has been said numerous times before: people don't have a problem with this - if you had just run out as far as you could on the sea or went the tunnel and *hid* or otherwise refused to engage the opponent until time out, then yes, people are going to get cross and report you.

And that's my point. They have no right to say how I play. I seriously considered taking the tie. But since he charged base, thought I had a chance. According to other people here, I would have been violating "Non-Participation" if I had stayed put like I probably should have, gotten the tie instead of the loss. But because I got greedy and chose to play stupid, I got the loss instead. Anti-hiders want to make sure smart tactics and willingness to accept a tie or loss rather than die stupidly is policy.

Oh, and they're continuing to try and ban delay tactics and hiding in CW too. A place where this tactic is completely valid in delaying a team's ability to cycle back to the battle.

Edited by Kjudoon, 13 February 2015 - 12:56 AM.

[Serpieri]

Simple Fix - Dead People can only talk to team - disable all chat.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

Few days back, we had a pilot in a Cicada standing still on the spawn for the whole duration of the game. After a not-so-optimal battle, we lost.

Since he was the last person left and not doing anything all that time, I gave out his coordinates.

When the first laser shot landed, he started moving! I didn't know if I should laugh or "cry" about that...

[Kjudoon]

Serpieri, on 13 February 2015 - 01:01 AM, said:

Simple Fix - Dead People can only talk to team - disable all chat.

That deals with most team treason. This issue is far bigger than just that.

Personally, I'd like to see the end of spectating regardledss of how cool it is. Now the problem solved because nobody's time is wasted and the dead can't influence anything or gripe about it. You can complain about not being able to know how the match ended till later, or you don't get to watch the cool match. But is this really a big deal? Not really. All these cool toys are causing the issue because of trolls and jerks who really should have the toys taken away from them. And now with Rejoin, you can't just quit match and be free to go into another one.

Maybe the gripe is you don't have access to your mech and someone else is holding your mech hostage. You really have no grounds to stand on. That mech was committed for up to 15 minutes. Blame PGI's response to farming and get them to change it. Of course, to silence the entitlamentations, I'll go so far as to suggest ending PGI taking people's mech hostage for the full agreed 15 minutes even though this will cause rampant farming and abuse of the system. But this is why we can't have good or cool things. Then there is no more of this horse hockey. You play the game and die early, you are out, you get your mech and go.

Technically, why aren't you doing that anyway in another mech you should have already gotten set for when you die? You have trial mechs available too. Answer? Pure egotism and false entitlement. The exact same degree of selfishness accused at those 'time wasters'. I paid my money probably the same as you, and if I want to spend it another way, I should be able to. Why is your money better than mine?

So you don't want to look for that last mech that's hiding? Fine, quit the match, start a new one. There. done. Nobody's time is wasted and nobody is being accused of trolling another. KDR doesn't matter to you anyway, only the hider it seems. Oh wait... the loudest in this discussion are usually the ones to get the kill, aren't they? Who's KDR obsessed again?

See. This all seems to boil down to one thing and one thing only. PGI's solution for farming through the 15 minute/end of match mech hostage mechanic. If someone dies, and they could hop right back into the same mech they just died in, poof, no more problem. Force people out of matches at death, and allow them to spectate completed matches from a saved twitch server or something, no more team treason is possible.

Ghost Rider LSOV, on 13 February 2015 - 01:12 AM, said:

Few days back, we had a pilot in a Cicada standing still on the spawn for the whole duration of the game. After a not-so-optimal battle, we lost.

Since he was the last person left and not doing anything all that time, I gave out his coordinates.

When the first laser shot landed, he started moving! I didn't know if I should laugh or "cry" about that...

"Bottom feeding" is a legitimate tactic that is now de-facto banned from Skirmish. I call that a mixed blessing.

[Spawnsalot]

Kjudoon, on 13 February 2015 - 12:54 AM, said:

And that's my point. They have no right to say how I play.

No but PGI does:

Quote

Hi there!
Thank you for your feedback and our apologies we could not reach your earlier. If the player B is still actively playing it is not considered non-participation.
For us powering down your mech for the purpose of letting the clock run out and maintaining your K/D ratio does not fall within the intended spirit of the shutdown mechanic, and is considered an act of non-participation.
Regards

GM_Patience
Piranha Games

Quote

I seriously considered taking the tie. But since he charged base, thought I had a chance. According to other people here, I would have been violating "Non-Participation" if I had stayed put like I probably should have, gotten the tie instead of the loss. But because I got greedy and chose to play stupid, I got the loss instead. Anti-hiders want to make sure smart tactics and willingness to accept a tie or loss rather than die stupidly is policy.

Oh, and they're continuing to try and ban delay tactics and hiding in CW too. A place where this tactic is completely valid in delaying a team's ability to cycle back to the battle.

Speaking of dying stupidly and tactics, I'm fairly certain you just charged him and hovered towards him with a cherry CT, if you hadn't been so interested with the inside of the dropship you could have used the match time to pick him apart at your leisure, you were in a faster mech with high mounted ballistics and you knew roughly where he was in an area with plenty of corners and obstacles for cover, not to mention friendly turrets. There was a good chance you could have won that.
(/armchairgeneral)

And a tie is just a loss that takes longer and pays less, you get nothing useful out of it.

I agree with you to an extent on the CW point though, nothing wrong with hanging back while your team regroups/respawns or seeing if you can draw a few impatient players out to play in your kill-zone.
On the other hand sitting there for the duration of a match, especially as an attacker is drifting into ponce territory again

[Kjudoon]

Quote

There was a good chance you could have won that.
(/armchairgeneral)

And I'm sure if you were there with your 20/20 foresight you'd have won.

Quote

And a tie is just a loss that takes longer and pays less, you get nothing useful out of it.

I'll take a tie over a loss every time. So our opinions cancel out. I get the knowledge they couldn't kill me and that makes me smile. I couldn't kill them, but I denied them a victory. That is called a moral win.

Quote

I agree with you to an extent on the CW point though, nothing wrong with hanging back while your team regroups/respawns or seeing if you can draw a few impatient players out to play in your kill-zone.
On the other hand sitting there for the duration of a match, especially as an attacker is drifting into ponce territory again

Again, this is a matter of opinion on what is valid and what isn't. PGI as it has been pointed out is the final determiner, but since it seems to shift with the dev you ask or the month it is... for now, you can't do anything safely except scream 'mech smash', charge and die.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"So what the moderator said in the e mail quoted in this thread doesn't apply?"

Nope. Because the mod is not saying what you claim. We are saying that if the last player is still active, then you have no right to tell him to give up. Your response is that you can't power down and refuse to engage to protect your K/D ratio. We know that, we agree with that, but its not what we are talking about.

Maybe you weren't following the OP - players are being cussed at in chat because they keep fighting when its "obvious" the match is lost. They aren't running off to hide and power down for the rest of the match. They are trying to play, which is "wasting" the Grinder Crowd's time.

The last man should be allowed to finish out the match using whatever tactics he wants, so long as he is active. That includes breaking contact ("running away") and flanking to get a new attack angle ("wasting our time wah!") and even powering down when it suits him.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 13 February 2015 - 03:41 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

KisumiKitsune, on 13 February 2015 - 02:37 AM, said:

What qualifies as Persistent non-participation. Is it with in a single match or repeatedly in multiple matches?

[MechWarrior3671771]

I think they used "persistent" to mean "a pattern and history" of non-participation.

They don't want to use the admin stick on players who have the occasional encounter with Murphy.

[Joseph Mallan]

Fenrisulvyn, on 13 February 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

I think they used "persistent" to mean "a pattern and history" of non-participation.

They don't want to use the admin stick on players who have the occasional encounter with Murphy.

We are not that bad when it comes to Folks hiding...

[Mudhutwarrior]

All I know is since this thread started team treason is out of control. Seen last two get their locations reported multiple times now and one where there was a full lance and the guy was narrating our movements. the other team was telling him to shut up.
People just don't care anymore about gameplay. Its all about them getting to the next match when "They" decide its over.

PGI needs to either stand on the rule or change them. The lack of response from them is alarming considering how long this thread has gone on. Frankly I wish they would enforce the rule to the letter or just say its a free for all and let the game die a slow death.

[Raggedyman]

Kristov Kerensky, on 12 February 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

I guess these guys really don't believe what PGI's official stance is, whatever, shown proof and refuse it out of hand, can't argue with that logic.

I happily accept that their stance is "Don't power-down to save your KDR", and I've no problems with that.

I just continue to see a big difference between that stance and accusing people of/threatening to report people for powering down because they aren't currently in your LOS/haven't shown themselves to your crosshairs in the last X seconds. I'm also not seeing anything in what they have said that translates to 'hit and run tactics at the last man standing stage are a breach of the rules, so you must put your neck on the block'.

Biggest irony: I'm almost never the last man standing due to my patented Damage Magnet Technique.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 13 February 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

All I know is since this thread started team treason is out of control. Seen last two get their locations reported multiple times now and one where there was a full lance and the guy was narrating our movements. the other team was telling him to shut up.
People just don't care anymore about gameplay. Its all about them getting to the next match when "They" decide its over.

PGI needs to either stand on the rule or change them. The lack of response from them is alarming considering how long this thread has gone on. Frankly I wish they would enforce the rule to the letter or just say its a free for all and let the game die a slow death.

Funny I think enforcing teh letter would be the death of the game

[Raggedyman]

Mudhutwarrior, on 13 February 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

All I know is since this thread started team treason is out of control. Seen last two get their locations reported multiple times now and one where there was a full lance and the guy was narrating our movements. the other team was telling him to shut up.
People just don't care anymore about gameplay. Its all about them getting to the next match when "They" decide its over.

PGI needs to either stand on the rule or change them. The lack of response from them is alarming considering how long this thread has gone on. Frankly I wish they would enforce the rule to the letter or just say its a free for all and let the game die a slow death.

I've seen nothing to suggest that PGI won't bust people for Team Treason, so the simplest thing to do if you see it is to report it.

Regards the "lack of response": they replied. What else can you ask for? I really don't think it warrant's a mod post on here as the main point (well, from my view. And I got this monster rolling so I'm going to swing my view around for a bit) the question isn't really what PGI are or aren't doing with the rules but how players are using them to enforce their preferred playing behaviors / get to that really important meeting they have scheduled.

As for "letter of the law": nope, really wouldn't want that as it would go horribly, horribly wrong. End of the days these rules are mostly in place to stop abuse of game mechanics and as soon as you define them too tightly folks will find a way to abuse them whilst staying just on the line of breaking them, or if you make them too lose then everyone gets banned.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I posted this to support....






"I will direct you to a thread on the forums about team treason. http://mwomercs.com/...t-man-standing/And my last post " All I know is since this thread started team treason is out of control. Seen last two get their locations reported multiple times now and one where there was a full lance and the guy was narrating our movements. the other team was telling him to shut up.
People just don't care anymore about gameplay. Its all about them getting to the next match when "They" decide its over.

PGI needs to either stand on the rule or change them. The lack of response from them is alarming considering how long this thread has gone on. Frankly I wish they would enforce the rule to the letter or just say its a free for all and let the game die a slow death."
I am trying to level a locust running conquest only now because If I am the last man in the other matches my position is almost always given up. Now I played conquest today and twice multiple players were giving blow by blow reports on my position.For some reason I haven't been able to screen shot since the patch so I cant forward the last ones to you.You utter lack of either enforcement of the rules , taking a clear stance for or against the rules has forced me to just stop playing now..Please make up your minds or do or say something about this. Asking us to just report it makes your workload insane and making me report every instance ruins the game time I have.

Just so sick of your lack of attention to details that ruin it for the players and create chaos."

[Raggedyman]

Mudhutwarrior, on 13 February 2015 - 04:59 AM, said:

For some reason I haven't been able to screen shot since the patch so I cant forward the last ones to you.

Do they need screen shots? I would have thought they keep the chatlogs of everything said in game (not sure of the legal situation but I know most MMOs do it as it's useful in court and simples to record/keep) so all you would need is a "I played game at X time, it's in those chats" and they should be able to get it from there.