140 replies to this topic

[Peter2000]

I think it is abundantly clear that the CSJ loyalists have been played for fools by the duplicitous CGB. CGB accepts "Clan Unity" when, and only when, it benefits them. GCGB and CGBI along with their merc forces have attacked CSJ on a few separate occasions.

Personally I have no problem with this, except that 1. They lie about a "ceasefire", at least between "loyalist" units 2. The CSJ loyalists appear to have a battered wife mentality and keep thinking that CGB only attacks them because CGB loves them, and CSJ hasn't quite bent over backwards far enough.

[reign]

I just wanna say thank you To both PH and 228

You guys both have done so much for CSJ. Hope you 228 boys stay around for a long long while. And PH keep waving the banner !!!

[Kain Demos]

Peter2000, on 05 February 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

I think it is abundantly clear that the CSJ loyalists have been played for fools by the duplicitous CGB. CGB accepts "Clan Unity" when, and only when, it benefits them. GCGB and CGBI along with their merc forces have attacked CSJ on a few separate occasions.

Personally I have no problem with this, except that 1. They lie about a "ceasefire", at least between "loyalist" units 2. The CSJ loyalists appear to have a battered wife mentality and keep thinking that CGB only attacks them because CGB loves them, and CSJ hasn't quite bent over backwards far enough.

Sounds.........................familiar.

[Noesis]

Peter2000, on 05 February 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

I think it is abundantly clear that the CSJ loyalists have been played for fools by the duplicitous CGB. CGB accepts "Clan Unity" when, and only when, it benefits them. GCGB and CGBI along with their merc forces have attacked CSJ on a few separate occasions.

Personally I have no problem with this, except that 1. They lie about a "ceasefire", at least between "loyalist" units 2. The CSJ loyalists appear to have a battered wife mentality and keep thinking that CGB only attacks them because CGB loves them, and CSJ hasn't quite bent over backwards far enough.

Eh? Weren't you the person arguing about free reign to have clan vs clan battles on the borders? Something about maximising lanes of attack?

I guess now the shoe is on the other foot its a case of all change to suit self policy entitlement thingamy?

[Black Nationalist Gul Dukat]

Noesis, on 05 February 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

Eh? Weren't you the person arguing about free reign to have clan vs clan battles on the borders? Something about maximising lanes of attack?

I guess now the shoe is on the other foot its a case of all change to suit self policy entitlement thingamy?

Everyone sees through this stuff, please save your time and ours. What's good for the Bear is not good for any other Clan and in fact, the Bear will shed tears over it.

That's why we fight.

[Noesis]

Black Nationalist Gul Dukat, on 05 February 2015 - 01:06 PM, said:

Everyone sees through this stuff, please save your time and ours. What's good for the Bear is not good for any other Clan and in fact, the Bear will shed tears over it.

That's why we fight.

okie, so at least we are clear on the lack of support to mutual alligned efforts on this one then.

[QueenBlade]

You are both correct and wrong Noesis.

While Peter2000 does argue for free reign on the borders, the agreement between both factions was a trial of possession of the planet Tanh Linh between -MS- and 228, of which CGB broke.

There is no shoe on the other foot. This was us trying to play by your rules/mindset which CGB then broke, which favors of Peter2000's arguement. It anything, this action of CGB sides with Peter2000's arguement.

[Noesis]

QueenBlade, on 05 February 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

You are both correct and wrong Noesis.

While Peter2000 does argue for free reign on the borders, the agreement between both factions was a trial of possession of the planet Tanh Linh between -MS- and 228, of which CGB broke.

There is no shoe on the other foot. This was us trying to play by your rules/mindset which CGB then broke, which favors of Peter2000's arguement. It anything, this action of CGB sides with Peter2000's arguement.

Well it isnt my mindset, the Dark Born are not CGB we are just in CGB space.

But if it is a case of two MERCs having some fun over a planet how did CGB break any agreement? Was the idea for CGB not to become involved in the action but in the end some loyalist units then interfered? If so I could then understand why the missgivings.

I was however under the illusions that CGB and CSJ had already signed off on the idea that they couldn't really control what happens on the borders with MERCs anyhow so why there would need to be a trial between two MERCs doesn't make sense. Unless of course it was to help with the Clan relationship with this action specifically?

[QueenBlade]

I see you did not look at the screenshots of the battles on Tanh Linh, surprising for one as yourself.

Those screenshots were even posted in this forum post.

I highly suggest you take a look.

Here, I'll help you so you don't miss it a second time.
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4167493

Edited by QueenBlade, 05 February 2015 - 01:21 PM.

[Noesis]

I see, I have only really caught up with events on Tanh Linh.

I guess this does suggest a faux pas from the loyalist CGB groups if not negociated with the equivalent loyalist CSJ members.

[Prussian Havoc]

Noesis, on 05 February 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

I see, I have only really caught up with events on Tanh Linh.

I guess this does suggest a faux pas from the loyalist CGB groups if not negociated with the equivalent loyalist CSJ members.

Faux pas indeed...


...and just where have our loyal Ghost Bear Trothkin contributors to this thread gone now that I asked Mordin Ashe for a clarification on the undisputed presence of EIGHT CGBI players in multiple drops on Tanh Linh?

Also the presence of multiple ACES and CI 12-man teams dropping time after time into Combat against a Valiant and Defiant 228, who stood firm on CSJ-ground against BOTH the originally intended MercStar AS WELL AS also a veritable Horde of other Mercenary Corps Units (known to be pawns of the Inner Sphere Mercenary Alliance - ACES and CI.)

All honor and due praise to 228 for it's incomparable gaming acumen and outstanding performance in the face of overwhelming Enemy odds and poor CSJ-Support coordination on the part of myself and a few others.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 05 February 2015 - 04:43 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

Prussian...your awesome. That is all.

[Mordin Ashe]

Prussian Havoc, on 05 February 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

-stuff and screenshots-

Well, wasn't me dropping there, so I can't give you any explanation on that one. Heck, CGBI never even promoted me above MW rank... I really have no power over our US players.

Still, it might have something to do with those two things I already mentioned.
First, due to lack of any communication many CGB players still feel that you owe us three worlds and thus are inclined to attack you whenever possible. I am not saying that there might (or may not, I still don't know) be an official agreement, just that people are pissed since noone knows anything.

Second, CGBI has nothing to do with MS/CI/ACES. They do what they want, they surely do something dfferent than what would I want them to do. Please, don't ask me to pardon/explain their behavior because I have literaly nothing to do with them.

Last one, a little demand if I may. For some reason you seem to be angry with me. I never intended to make you angry, it is the other way around to be honest, I respect you because you have a genuine attitude and I appreciate that. Also, you can fight really well. What I wrote were facts from CGB perspective, not intended as offence but written because such info was completely missing and is crucial for solving this situation. If you would please be so kind and perhaps reconsider your attitude towards me? I hate this whining, never done anything against you and don't understand your problem.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 06 February 2015 - 01:08 AM.

[NAZGUULL]

CyclonerM, on 04 February 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

I believe it would have been better to have fixed targets in each corridor as in the lore, so no one could block any other Clan's path.

this^ or something like a certain percentage of your faction queuing on a planet would open it for attack. at least that way we could at least continue with the push, and not be forced east or west. I'm really getting tired logging on in the evening and wanting to push south, but only having planets open east or west.

[CyclonerM]

NAZGUULL, on 06 February 2015 - 06:13 AM, said:

I'm really getting tired logging on in the evening and wanting to push south, but only having planets open east or west.

Believe me, we know very well that feeling.. I especially do

[NAZGUULL]

Prussian, as far as the 228/ms fight for Tan Linh, I browse these forums pretty regularly, and try to stay up to date with what's going on. and perhaps I missed the post, and correct me if I'm wrong. Was it ever stated that the fight would just be between MS and 228? secondly, in a time when what used to be NA prime time and had multiple fights over multiple planets, has been reduced to one or two planets with any action on it and usually only one planet with numbers reaching the 60+ mark anymore. can you really fault people for going where the action is? I cant speak for all of CGB or CGBI only myself. But I can say that for me, having only a few hours in the evening usually between 9pm est and 11pm to play at all. I like to get as many drops in as I can. Had I been dropping CW that night I can say I probably would have dropped on the planet as well, just for the sole purpose of getting in drops. I've got nothing but respect for you guys and 228, ive had some pretty awesome matches with 228, resulting in both wins, and losses. As much as I want to see an alliance thrive, with the current state of CW sadly people are just going to throng to where the action is. Hopefully sometime in the near future I hope some of these issues with attack lanes and what planets are open for attack get fixed and bring more players back to CW. until then o7

Edited by NAZGUULL, 06 February 2015 - 06:52 AM.

[Prussian Havoc]

Mordin Ashe, on 06 February 2015 - 01:08 AM, said:

Well, wasn't me dropping there, so I can't give you any explanation on that one
...(snip)...
never done anything against you and don't understand your problem.

Thank you for a prompt reply to my request for input, I really do appreciate it.

And let me assure you that I am not angry with you. As by your post above, my included comment clearly gave you that impression, I sincerely apologize for the impression I mistakenly gave you.

But if you think about it... when we append signature blocks for a Unit, we gain the forum recognition and prestige of being associated that Unit's history, regardless if that history shines a light on honorable, valiant and highly COMP gameplay...

...or when that Unit's latest actions call into question the UNIT's current path and LEADERSHIP duplicity in nefarious activity.

It is ONLY NATURAL to hold an Individual accountable for the Unit he so blatantly holds himself associated with.


Quiaff?


Being JGx, I make sure I am on the cutting edge of my Unit's internal debates on the who's, why's and where-for's of our Actions, Non-Actions, Rhetoric and Rationale. But then the 1st Jaguar Guards has as a core tenant and strength - its open, transparent nature, ensuring its 50+ gamers are presented with lively debate and aggressive predictive analysis of Community Warfare permutations - the greater bulk of this having for a month now been invested in Smoke Jaguar Alliance's forum debate, discourse and dialogue (http//:www.smokealliance.com)

I can be held accountable for the actions of the Unit to which I belong.

I want to be held accountable for the actions of the Unit to which I belong.

Can you say the same?

NAZGUULL, on 06 February 2015 - 06:48 AM, said:

Prussian, as far as the 228/ms fight for Tan Linh, I browse these forums pretty regularly, and try to stay up to date with what's going on. and perhaps I missed the post, and correct me if I'm wrong. Was it ever stated that the fight would just be between MS and 228?
...(snip)...
Hopefully sometime in the near future I hope some of these issues with attack lanes and what planets are open for attack get fixed and bring more players back to CW. until then o7

And thank you for a reply to my request for input.

Yes, it was clearly understood that 228 and -MS- were handling matters of a mutual-nature.

(See my comments to Mordin Ashe above, please)

And please allow me to clarify, I do not countenance a gamer's eagerness to BRAND his signature block with a particular UNIT then as is convenient later claim to NOT be current on SAID UNIT's AGENDA nor willing to be held individually responsible for what SAID UNIT AGGRESSIVELY pursues in public within the ever-transparent context of MWO:CW planetary invasion and capture.

It might be just me... but I am responsible for in total for the actions of JGx and her Commander, Pasha Osis. As a member of the Unit, it is what I signed up for... NOT just the internal camaraderie / external honor of being a "Gaurdsman" but "ownership in" and "accountability for" all the actions, non-actions and rhetoric which issues forth from JGx.

And I would have it no other way.

In many respects it puts the beginnings of COMMUNITY into CW for me.

The Smoke Jaguar Alliance further enhances COMMUNITY as far as my participation there is intended to inform, influence and provide context for the wild pathing our favorite PGI algorithm INFLICTS UPON US ALL.




Anyhow, as to the argument of the TWO QQ WORLDS and SINGLE REM WORLD taken from CGB by UNSANCTIONED (http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4104416) Attack on Clan Ghost Bear world... THIS VERY THREAD OP was a portion of my two-fold effort (Smoke Jaguar Alliance internal forums being the other) to WITH MUTUAL AGREEMENT decided on a NEAR-TERM 8-hr cycle which BOTH SIDES could publish as being the TIME OF REPATRIATION.

As I have already authoritatively and critically served notice of, if NOT performed properly, the retaking of Tanh Linh by CGB could lead to all manner of friction, tension and further likely hood of poorly considered action by LOYALIST Units and Gamers from CGB and CSJ.

And therein lies a key (and overarching to the framework aspect of CW) distinction - LOYALIST vice MERCENARY.



NEITHER IS A FOUR-LETTER WORD, YOU WILL NOTE. But the sooner PGI sufficiently codifies and enables/constrains/restrains/empowers BOTH with unique and separately-distinct organizationally emblematic ways, means, capabilities AND consequences the sooner we will have a COMMUNITY warfare where Rex (READ: Large Mercenary Corps Units) can NOT wantonly usurp a Faction's Foreign Policy as well as ALL Statecraft Rolls and Functions effectively conducting a FACTIONAL COUP (http://mwomercs.com/...-wolf-conflict/), ousting any legitimate amalgamation/representative CGB governance function for what amounts to old school Mogadishu Warlordism.

Just take a moment to consider all that...

Into the OPPORTUNITY for COMMUNITY warfare we have an EXCELLENT group of gamers (-MS-) increasingly being led astray by one individual who for his own self-aggrandizement, has set himself up as the Warlord of WHICHEVER Faction he selects a contract with.

NO EMPLOYEE / EMPLOYER CONTRACT RELATIONSHIP for Rex.

-MS- is now with Marik and I trust there will be no end to Rex-rhetoric and unilateral action in Marik name UNSANCTIONED by the Marik LOYALIST powers that be. Unfortunately it appears that BWC was never a Marik LOYALIST unit.

I intend NO disrespect to BWC and their quite remarkable achievements in MWO in general and CW specifically. As gamers, BWC influence is embodied for ALL to see by all the many worlds TAG'ed as a DIRECT RESULT of THEIR efforts. Much respect to BWC and the Dragon will gain even further Strength and Effectiveness for being currently able to count BWC among its Mercenary Allies.

KUDOS TO BOTH HOUSE KURITA/Lord Itto as well as BWC for this next 7-days of exciting potentiality.

But I mourn for LOYALIST forces pretty much everywhere as the life's blood of CW is NOT equitably parsed between MERCENARY and LOYALIST segments If the gaming population.




And therein lies the heart of my effort here: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4167983




If PGI/Russ, Rex and I could stream a debate (with Russ moderating) on the ways and possibilities of CW evolution, I think it would draw heavy twitch viewership.

What say you?

[Mordin Ashe]

Ok, nice to know we are ok

Prussian Havoc, on 06 February 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

I can be held accountable for the actions of the Unit to which I belong.

I want to be held accountable for the actions of the Unit to which I belong.

Can you say the same?

Well... Even though I am the most active CGBI CW player I have absolutely no idea what our policies, treaties or ideas are. That makes things rather difficult. Also, noone regularly informs us about our opinions on specific events and situations. I agree that it would be nice to represent and if what I do/say would have perhaps a deeper impact than it does now (exempla trahunt and so on), but it simply isn't happening because I am totaly left out.

Representing in general is nice. CW are great example at this. When they fight very well (and average CW pugs can do a lot of coordinated effort, more than any other oponent we are facing), I am rather glad I can tell it to them because it is 100% deserved. When they attack our planets we have been fighting for 6 weeks straight just because of **** and giggles, I tell them they are dezgra because they are dishonoring a monument of CGB defeating the best mercs that went to battle under IS flag and met us on these planets, only to find defeat. But as I said, nothing I do or write can change it. We don't have policies or statements, comming t think of it we probably don't even have anything resembling diplomatic relations.

Perhaps that is why MS/CI are making such a fuss? With more pronounced statements we could deal with them better in the eyes of other clans, but when we don't have anything and MS is doing what they want, they are sticking out, making it feel like what they do is what all ghost bears do.

[Aiden IIC]

*** DISCLAIMER: I am not an officer, nor am I privy to much of the information within the Clan. This comment represents my perspective, and in no way constitutes an official statement from CGBI or Clan Ghost Bear. ***

Mordin Ashe, on 06 February 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Well... Even though I am the most active CGBI CW player I have absolutely no idea what our policies, treaties or ideas are. That makes things rather difficult. Also, noone regularly informs us about our opinions on specific events and situations. I agree that it would be nice to represent and if what I do/say would have perhaps a deeper impact than it does now (exempla trahunt and so on), but it simply isn't happening because I am totaly left out.

Representing in general is nice. CW are great example at this. When they fight very well (and average CW pugs can do a lot of coordinated effort, more than any other oponent we are facing), I am rather glad I can tell it to them because it is 100% deserved. When they attack our planets we have been fighting for 6 weeks straight just because of **** and giggles, I tell them they are dezgra because they are dishonoring a monument of CGB defeating the best mercs that went to battle under IS flag and met us on these planets, only to find defeat. But as I said, nothing I do or write can change it. We don't have policies or statements, comming t think of it we probably don't even have anything resembling diplomatic relations.

Unfortunately, this has been the case for some time now. The GB command structure has been undergoing drastic changes, to the detriment of communication at the lower mechwarrior levels. Consequently, many of us have no updated directives, who to attack, who to avoid, for any given drop window. And because the politics here change so frequently, issues like this are bound to occur.

An example would be the continued incursions into GB space by Wolf under the banner of retaliation for three planets MS took from them. The constant assault has consumed half a dozen planets we fought tooth and nail for against FRR for weeks. Instead of attacking them in response, I was told a treaty was "in process", "underway", etc, and so I deliberately ignored those attack lanes. Even our high level commanders were under that impression, until we dropped against several 12-man Wolf units attacking yet another of our planets. Finally we all came to understand that not only is there not a treaty, there never was one. We have lost much as a consequence.

What needs to be examined on Tan Linh is the lack of a full-on CGBI assault. These attacks were mounted by mixed units, and many of us were dropping with MS at the time because that's where the CW players were most active. As for my own involvement, once I realized we were dropping on a CSJ planet, I left the group I was with because I knew there was some kind of treaty in place, though the details beyond that had not been communicated to me directly.

Yes, the attack lane algorithm is atrocious, and has caused a lot of finger pointing and childish bullying. But at the end of the day, there's no reason why it should continue as such, except for the QQ elements that exist in EVERY faction.

There was no clan-wide ill-intent to attack CSJ without provocation, despite what some prominent trolls on here would want others to believe. I'm tired of seeing my clan vilified by noisy children who cannot let go of the past and move forward. This infighting between us only makes it easier for our true opponents.

For a long time now, the Smoke Jags have defended our right flank, helped us eliminate common enemy strongholds, and served as a voice of reason on this forum against a never-ceasing onslaught of accusations and falsehoods. Their model of a slow and steady march through Kurita is an example for all of us, and their warriors are some of the finest I have ever played with. I hope more than anything to continue to foster that level cooperation and trust that has been disrupted by recent events.

I have been assured that current leadership issues have been addressed and new policies are coming down. I'm hoping they will help us be more consistent in our actions, and allow us to honor our agreements more succinctly.

TL;DR - Chaotic command structure has caused stale and inaccurate directives, leading to political consequences. Changes have been promised that should rectify much of the issue.

Edited by Aiden II, 06 February 2015 - 11:50 PM.

[CyclonerM]

Again, we are attacking you mostly because of us being surrounded by two Clans ..