760 replies to this topic

[Necromantion]

Harathan, on 09 February 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

Which could have been done just as easily without having everyone playing under -MS- tags, could it not?

Given that, it's not hard to see why people might think -MS- exists just to put tags on planets. bobF certainly does; he apparently thinks that a players opinion is invalid if their unit has none.

Harathan, on 09 February 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

I don't know, apparently MS had a problem with others doing it?

Sorry, I should be specific. A bunch of MercStar affiliated players, who may or may not speak for MercStar, had a problem with it, while another bunch of MercStar affiliated players, who may or may not speak for MercStar, didn't have a problem with it, but when that ambiguity caused some tension, another bunch of MercStar affiliated players, who may or may not speak for MercStar, had a problem with it just because they weren't invited.

Does that about sum it up?

You were talking about -MS- having multiple units under one tag. Now you are somehow tying that into the Star League.

A unit and the Star League are two different entities which you cannot draw a parallel between. Though regarding that parallel that you drew nobody in MS is against the Star League. The sole issue that was brought up (which i will rehash for the umpteenth time since you cant seem to be bothered to read the whole thread) is that MS was apparently not recognized as part of the 7th house outlined in the Star Leagues meeting notes despite being a merc unit that follows the agreements binding whatever faction they choose.

People from MS who are leaders were there who wanted to be there. The only players that weren't involved who may have wanted to be there would have been people who are not leadership, which is moot point.

[Ax2Grind]

Harathan, on 09 February 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

I don't know, apparently MS had a problem with others doing it?

The only thing we take issue with the false accusations and rumor mongering that take place. We, as a unit, have never proposed having a problem with any faction organizing in any way this wished, nor have we ever made any demands on anyone to play a certain way in CW. As a leadership council we support friendly and sportsman-like behavior in our matches despite being trolled fairly constantly by other teams and Pugs. Our reputation to the contrary is ill deserved. If MS is a troll nation because two of our members troll a forum thread, then every MWO Unit I have every played with or against is just as bad. I can point to negative posts directed at MS in this very thread before the first BobF troll post. Cast stones my friend and be ready to have them cast right back.

What Hbizzle and Xavier both pointed out early in this thread is that we did not do what some of your "leaders" say we did...which is snub our nose at your goals and declare fighting against them before your meeting was over. Truth. It helps.

Now please, carry on with your plans of reforging the Star League. Fight the good fight and keep CW as interesting as possible.

[Harathan]

Necromantion, on 09 February 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

Care to point to anywhere any member of MS has ever said that anyone forming a large unit under one tag for the sake of having fun was not ok?

You cant? Oh thats right, because nobody has.

Try again, troll. The forum had plenty of examples.

[bobF]

And here is MischiefSC again, Mr. Rep from the Unit With No Planets, No Inlfuence, and No Relevance, to urinate on MS once more from a great height.

I ask you Mr. Mischief: how can you make any meaningful comments on MS's in-game skill and behavior, when you never queue up to defend your sorry faction?

Edit: Just wanted to comment on Ax2's observations. My posts aren't necessarily troll posts, simply effectively worded to achieve maximum impact. Limits on PvP kill PvP games, period. No single player entity should believe itself some kind of PvP referee. We're all mercs, just check the website address we all post to. And finally, Mischief is a known baddy, with no planets.

Edited by bobF, 09 February 2015 - 04:59 PM.

[Harathan]

Necromantion, on 09 February 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

You were talking about -MS- having multiple units under one tag. Now you are somehow tying that into the Star League.

A unit and the Star League are two different entities which you cannot draw a parallel between.

A unit of consisting of multiple merc units, vs a entity consisting of multiple merc units, the only difference between the two being that the latter did not create a unifying unit tag. Try again.

Necromantion, on 09 February 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

Though regarding that parallel that you drew nobody in MS is against the Star League.

You haven't bothered reading this thread, then. Maybe talk to bob? Like it or not, he's as representative of MS as you.

Necromantion, on 09 February 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

The sole issue that was brought up (which i will rehash for the umpteenth time since you cant seem to be bothered to read the whole thread) is that MS was apparently not recognized as part of the 7th house outlined in the Star Leagues meeting notes despite being a merc unit that follows the agreements binding whatever faction they choose.

Except when their members choose not to.

bobF, on 09 February 2015 - 04:53 PM, said:

And here is MischiefSC again, Mr. Rep from the Unit With No Planets, No Inlfuence, and No Relevance, to urinate on MS once more from a great height.

I ask you Mr. Mischief: how can you make any meaningful comments on MS's in-game skill and behavior, when you never queue up to defend your sorry faction?

And here is bobF again, the primary example of MS behaviour endorsed by association; the me-too to the big dog that is MercStar.

Tell me again Ax, Necro, HB, how MS isn't just in it for the e-peen.

Edited by Harathan, 09 February 2015 - 04:58 PM.

[Necromantion]

MischiefSC, on 09 February 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

A lot of the drama is created by ms folks, either trash talking in forums or matches.

Then someone level headed and reasonable comes along and says "nah, that ain't us, not who we are or what we are about".

Problem is that in this very thread you can look 2 posts up and see someone from MS doing what the reasonable guy says they don't do or say.

Hybrid and Salty Bob are 100% as representative of MS as Axe2Grind is.

No stonger than the weakest link, good for the goose is good for the gander, etc.

Any group is comprised of the people in it. You don't get to have people with the MS logo on acting a certain way and bragging up their MS membership and then come in and say " yeah he's MS and he says and does that cuz that's just how they are but MS doesn't do that".

Yes, yes it does. Its members do whatever they want and it has nor enforces nor even acknowledges no standards for behavior. Everyone does and acts how they please.

And that is 100% okay. Nobody is required to be anyone else's nanny. MS as an org isn't about a standard or calibur of membership; it's about quantity and leveraging quantity to its advantage.

Not something to apologize for. Just saying be honest about it. Thoses guys are every bit what MS is about as anyone else is. Better or worse you are the company you choose to keep.

MS does indeed have some trolls within our ranks, as does any unit. Heck people call me a troll because I say things how they are and when they dont like that and I am persistent they get upset with me. Its the internet sadly and thats bound to happen.

So are your comments about bob characteristic of your unit?

MS has a multitude of different individuals, from quiet people who barely talk even on TS to playful jerks like Hybrid.

If you think that MS's sole strength is just in quantity you really are sorely wrong, have you ever considered the fact that we are made up of a significant amount of competitive groups along with our allies in CI and ACES? If you would ever like to go up against any of our groups I am more than sure they would be happy to oblige you so you can sample our "quantity"

See below regarding your last comment.

Ax2Grind, on 09 February 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

The only thing we take issue with the false accusations and rumor mongering that take place. We, as a unit, have never proposed having a problem with any faction organizing in any way this wished, nor have we ever made any demands on anyone to play a certain way in CW. As a leadership council we support friendly and sportsman-like behavior in our matches despite being trolled fairly constantly by other teams and Pugs. Our reputation to the contrary is ill deserved. If MS is a troll nation because two of our members troll a forum thread, then every MWO Unit I have every played with or against is just as bad. I can point to negative posts directed at MS in this very thread before the first BobF troll post. Cast stones my friend and be ready to have them cast right back.

What Hbizzle and Xavier both pointed out early in this thread is that we did not do what some of your "leaders" say we did...which is snub our nose at your goals and declare fighting against them before your meeting was over. Truth. It helps.

Now please, carry on with your plans of reforging the Star League. Fight the good fight and keep CW as interesting as possible.

I am more of a forum lurker, i read things for a laugh or out of interest. It has only been since the Gyrok and now this SL drama that I have opened my mouth.

What has caused that? BS finger pointing that I feel the need to clarify about rumormongering and false notions and accusations.

So I will leave you with this:

No MS unit nor any merc started the recent CGB/CW conflict, Gyrok did.
MS has always respected any factions agreements with other factions that we have joined and always have consulted that factions leadership before making moves.

[Roadbeer]

Ax2Grind, on 09 February 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

What Hbizzle and Xavier both pointed out early in this thread is that we did not do what some of your "leaders" say we did...which is snub our nose at your goals and declare fighting against them before your meeting was over. Truth. It helps.

This is basically the truth.
While there was some initial (and admittedly well deserved) butthurt on the part of MS, immediately after. At no point has anyone (who matters) from MS said anything against the formation of the SLDF.

Furthermore, the constant commentary about what actually did or did not happen at the beginning of the meeting is just rumormonger and speculation, as the only people who were part of that conversation were myself, Bizzle and Tony. So any further commentary on that topic is just ****-stirring by people who don't know what the **** they're talking about.

The only thing I would have to say against MS, about anything, is that they are a little to big to respond to their host factions requests in a timely manner. If I wanted to find out if they are indeed the ones running the false flag operation against Liao, I only have 2 points of contact on that matter, and even then, who knows if talking to them would actually get it to stop.

This is a problem with all large organizations, not just MS, as once you get a juggernaut rolling, it's difficult to get it to stop. My advice to all faction houses and the mercs who visit them is have a clear line of communication, and maybe meet every day or two to discuss your goals.

But Axe has it right, if we just went on forum presence alone, there isn't a single person around who would do business with Marik, based off of my shitposting alone. And I can point at every merc unit and faction house and give 100 examples of the exact same thing.

Pro Tip: When shitposting, be very careful about laying out who your speaking for, and don't interchange "I'm speaking for myself, but (insert player group here) does this"

Those countries who long for peace should ignore the pinpricks that return cannonballs. - Napoleon

Edited by Roadbeer, 09 February 2015 - 05:07 PM.

[Necromantion]

Harathan, on 09 February 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

A unit of consisting of multiple merc units, vs a entity consisting of multiple merc units, the only difference between the two being that the latter did not create a unifying unit tag. Try again.

What are you talking about? Do you even know what the star league is?

The star league is an entity consisting of multiple units across multiple factions.
MS is a unit that is is made up of multiple comp units.

Are those not two totally separate entities?

Harathan, on 09 February 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

You haven't bothered reading this thread, then. Maybe talk to bob? Like it or not, he's as representative of MS as you.

Bobf is not against the SL, hes against not being recognized as part of that 7th house for no legitimate reason.

Harathan, on 09 February 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

Except when their members choose not to.

We follow the leadership in MS and they have never asked us to go against any agreements of our faction allies. Prime example right now is Mariks agreement with Liao which we have honored since day 1 of being with them since last week. There are even Marik units who have posted on this threat not attached to MS who have confirmed this.

Harathan, on 09 February 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

Tell me again Ax, Necro, HB, how MS isn't just in it for the e-peen.

Were a unit made of of a bunch of comp teams, most people here are competent in game or extremely competent in game and thus are competitive.

I personally joined and am staying with MS because of the level of player competence and how relaxed and fun the players are to be around in TS. I cant speak for the others but those things I listed transfer into fun for me and thats what I play MWO for.

[Necromantion]

Roadbeer, on 09 February 2015 - 05:05 PM, said:

I can let you know that there has never, since we joined Marik last weekend, been a single unit drop on a Liao from MS players.

[HBizzle]

Harathan, on 09 February 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

Tell me again Ax, Necro, HB, how MS isn't just in it for the e-peen.

It is totally about this, and only this.

[bobF]

Roadbeer, on 09 February 2015 - 05:05 PM, said:

A well-spoken post from Roadbeer

Would read again.

Anyone with an IQ higher than room temp understands that in-game behavior differs from forum PvP. MS chooses to indulge my posts (so long as I'm not blatantly racist, overly vulgar, or outright and genuinely defamatory. Honestly, those posts really are no fun to read or write) and for that they are awesomesauce. This thread would suck without some honest debate, and witty humor. Don't even front.

[Harathan]

Necromantion, on 09 February 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

What are you talking about? Do you even know what the star league is?

The star league is an entity consisting of multiple units across multiple factions.
MS is a unit that is is made up of multiple comp units.

Are those not two totally separate entities?

Are you honestly being serious? The only difference between the two as far as MWO mechanics go, the only difference, is a unifying unit tag.

Necromantion, on 09 February 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

Bobf is not against the SL, hes against not being recognized as part of that 7th house for no legitimate reason.

bobF was against the SL long before that drama kicked off. Same as he was every time two factions tried to organise a ceasefire at any level.

Necromantion, on 09 February 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

I personally joined and am staying with MS because of the level of player competence and how relaxed and fun the players are to be around in TS. I cant speak for the others but those things I listed transfer into fun for me and thats what I play MWO for.

Sure, I get that. With so many comp players under MercStar now and thus unable to compete against one another, I can understand how rolling pugs for easy wins would be nice and relaxing. Plus, bobF and the rest of your e-peen contingent get their planet tags. Bonus!

[Roadbeer]

Necromantion, on 09 February 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

I can let you know that there has never, since we joined Marik last weekend, been a single unit drop on a Liao from MS players.

I was using it as an example. There was a 12 man dropping on Liao about an hour ago, eventually we got intel on the tag and it not being MS.

But another example, we've just asked MS to allow us to take Berensen as it's the RP home world of one of our units, but they're only willing to do it if we let them take Ingersol because "muh Tags, we're collecting 3 tags a day, cuz poketags"

So, whatev. Tell me again how MS doesn't do what they want? Regardless of the factions desires.

Edited by Roadbeer, 09 February 2015 - 05:31 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

HARDKOR, on 09 February 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

Meet me behind the hill, with a gauss rifle. We'll discuss your claim on our worlds.

Well, it certainly sounds like a legit reason, but I don't see why you'd need to bring your...

Hey. Hey, wait a minute - this isn't a discussion!

[hybrid black]

Roadbeer, on 09 February 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

I was using it as an example. There was a 12 man dropping on Liao about an hour ago, eventually we got intel on the tag and it not being MS.

But another example, we've just asked MS to allow us to take Berensen as it's the RP home world of one of our units, but they're only willing to do it if we let them take Ingersol because "muh Tags"

So, whatev. Tell me again how MS doesn't do what they want?

there is give and take, your asking us not to fight where there are people to fight.. you ask us to give but give not a thing back.

[Roadbeer]

hybrid black, on 09 February 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

there is give and take, your asking us not to fight where there are people to fight.. you ask us to give but give not a thing back.

No, you're totally right, all we asked is for one night you let one of our units get their name on a planet that is important to them (and by extension, us) for RP reasons, while we've let you totally *********** our plans for manipulating the algorithm on our Kurita front and try to get it to go north, just so y'all wouldn't get bored while you were here (when nobody really asked you to come to Marik in the first place).

So it's totally fair in trade that we let you break our NAP with Liao so you can get your little tag on a planet.

Seems legit.

[hybrid black]

Roadbeer, on 09 February 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

No, you're totally right, all we asked is for one night you let one of our units get their name on a planet that is important to them (and by extension, us) for RP reasons, while we've let you totally *********** our plans for manipulating the algorithm on our Kurita front and try to get it to go north, just so y'all wouldn't get bored while you were here (when nobody really asked you to come to Marik in the first place).

So it's totally fair in trade that we let you break our NAP with Liao so you can get your little tag on a planet.

Seems legit.

PGI asked us to come for mechbays and other free stuff

[MischiefSC]

I drop about a dozen matches a night. We are not currently dropping on the Marik border; pretty much treating it like a false flag attack. After ms leaves we'll wagon wheel the worlds back with Marik, if only to scrub the MS tags on them. If you're fighting anyone they are just pugs; surprised you're seeing anyone at all. We are either defending Liao/Kurita or going to Clan border.

Thanks for the notice though. We'll pop I. And herd any lost pugs on the Marik border to where they need to be. No issue with fighting MS in principle, just a waste of time right now. Same reason we don't waste people on rogues attacks on Steiner border. Waste of time, we clean it up in off hours.

I love your strawmans though Bob. You have no relevant response and the only thing you associate with personal success are things other people do that you take credit for.

The funny thing you seem unwilling or unable to get is that the points I bring up stand or fall on their own merit, not some faux borrowed authority because some people who belong to the same group i do did this one thing at band camp one time.

Makes it clear why all you do is straw man. You don't have any points of individual merit so you have to straw man non-existant issues while trying to claim false legitimacy by association.

[hybrid black]

MischiefSC, on 09 February 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

I drop about a dozen matches a night. We are not currently dropping on the Marik border; pretty much treating it like a false flag attack. After ms leaves we'll wagon wheel the worlds back with Marik, if only to scrub the MS tags on them. If you're fighting anyone they are just pugs; surprised you're seeing anyone at all. We are either defending Liao/Kurita or going to Clan border.

Thanks for the notice though. We'll pop I. And herd any lost pugs on the Marik border to where they need to be. No issue with fighting MS in principle, just a waste of time right now. Same reason we don't waste people on rogues attacks on Steiner border. Waste of time, we clean it up in off hours.

I love your strawmans though Bob. You have no relevant response and the only thing you associate with personal success are things other people do that you take credit for.

The funny thing you seem unwilling or unable to get is that the points I bring up stand or fall on their own merit, not some faux borrowed authority because some people who belong to the same group i do did this one thing at band camp one time.

Makes it clear why all you do is straw man. You don't have any points of individual merit so you have to straw man non-existant issues while trying to claim false legitimacy by association.

12 mans are showing up so thats all that matters

[hybrid black]

Roadbeer, on 09 February 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

No, you're totally right, all we asked is for one night you let one of our units get their name on a planet that is important to them (and by extension, us) for RP reasons, while we've let you totally *********** our plans for manipulating the algorithm on our Kurita front and try to get it to go north, just so y'all wouldn't get bored while you were here (when nobody really asked you to come to Marik in the first place).

So it's totally fair in trade that we let you break our NAP with Liao so you can get your little tag on a planet.

Seems legit.

also we have 60+ players online that need stuff to do