142 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

HARDKOR, on 07 February 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

Howabout, the name of the game is always to ID whats currently OP and use it. Next will be something else. Use that too.

In other news, 3 ERPPC 9S sucks at defending itself from firestarters and huggins but is great at killing your snipers.

The name of any game is to make balance adjustments so you can have a large pool of viable units instead of a small pool of limited choices.

Funny, the one 9S I saw so far in non-CW did very well against lights even making a Firestarter the 7th kill it got in a close range duel in a tight space for match win. Pilot hit more often than missed.

xe N on, on 07 February 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

outside cw the 9S is not very common. What does that tell us. Its the map and gamemode not the mech.

Tells us all the good 9S pilots do not play non-CW or use 'fun' builds instead of competative ones. There are posts on the second.

Mawai, on 07 February 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

Actually, even 40% heat would probably leave it good but not OP ... drop it to 25% and the mech probably becomes mediocre and pretty useless again. I've overheated my 9S even with its current quirks ... it can be very effective ... and it is probably a bit overpowered.

I'll also note that I have done just as well in my 5SS as my 9S ... and I have seen folks do better than either of these in Stormcrows or Timberwolves. Both Timberwolves and Stormcrows seem also generally OP but the folks who want nerfs for the 9S rarely seem to also beg for nerfs for these mechs ... which both seem better than the 9S.

While those wanting 9S nerfs never outright state nerfs for Stormcrows or Timber Wolves, they never outright say they are against nerfing them or the Dire Wolf. There are some that do say they want more than just 3 Clan Mechs to pick from and never state how that should come about.

Brody319, on 07 February 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

several people IS and Clan say they need to tone the damn quirks down on that thing.

but several IS whiners believe its the "only way they can win against the clans" probably because they are bad.
and Russ seems to agree, so just play PUG where the thunderbolt is bad.

See above about how 'bad' the 9S is in non-CW.

Brody319, on 07 February 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

Adder, warhawk, and Summoner should get PPC quirks.
Kitfox, Nova, and Gargoyle should get laser quirks.
Lynx, Ferret, Maddog should get structural quirks and general laser and missile quirks.

I think the Clan quirks are supposed to be connected to pods, not chassis.

[Lily from animove]

Wildstreak, on 07 February 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

The name of any game is to make balance adjustments so you can have a large pool of viable units instead of a small pool of limited choices.

Funny, the one 9S I saw so far in non-CW did very well against lights even making a Firestarter the 7th kill it got in a close range duel in a tight space for match win. Pilot hit more often than missed.


Tells us all the good 9S pilots do not play non-CW or use 'fun' builds instead of competative ones. There are posts on the second.


While those wanting 9S nerfs never outright state nerfs for Stormcrows or Timber Wolves, they never outright say they are against nerfing them or the Dire Wolf. There are some that do say they want more than just 3 Clan Mechs to pick from and never state how that should come about.


See above about how 'bad' the 9S is in non-CW.


I think the Clan quirks are supposed to be connected to pods, not chassis.

probably both, depends on where PGI wants to put them .

but the nature of the omnipod mechanics would make podrelated quirks be a better idea. except quirks that they wanna give all the mechs of a chassis, then they should put them into the CT.

[LordKnightFandragon]

MechWarrior5152251, on 07 February 2015 - 05:27 AM, said:

LOL, the IS ERPPC is not "balanced" You will almost never see one used except on a T-bolt. Any player who isn't in special ed should know this....

PPCs and ERPPCs wouldnt be O or UP if we didnt have such high ass PPFLD meta. If we had 40pt heat, and heat penalties that mattered, as in you blew up if you stayed over the 40pt limit for more then maybe 10 seconds. If that lead to us only being able to fire 20dmg every like 5-7s, instead of 90 every 3.5s then weapons like PPCs would be fine. Problem with em now is the PPFLD, PPCs dont fit into it because they are not stackable like lasers, to hot to spam like lasers and fire to slow unlike lasers.

So, on the 9s, with 50% less heat, it allows them to stack like lasers, cool llike lasers and with the quirks, fire as fast as lasers...so, der...it finally fits the PPFLD meta...so they are used o nthe 9s....

Its a game issue not so much a 9s issue...but, in the current state of the game, it makes it derpy.

[Wildstreak]

Mcgral18, on 07 February 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

10 TrueDubs with a 250 engine with 2 11.25 heat ERPPCs?

It's hot. It also doesn't have JJs; you'll need to lose a couple TrueDubs.
A 225 lets you have 3 JJs and move 113.

2 ERPPC Panther needs XL for a 250, 140 is max Standard it can do, I have a link in a post from yesterday in the topic for the Panther & Enforcer quirked Mechs.

[Mcgral18]

Wildstreak, on 07 February 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

2 ERPPC Panther needs XL for a 250, 140 is max Standard it can do, I have a link in a post from yesterday in the topic for the Panther & Enforcer quirked Mechs.

Yep, I thought that was a given. It won't be very good with 2 ERPPCs.

[Brody319]

I imagine it will run a single ERPPC, because of how hot the things are even with quirks. it will save on heat.

of course you could always run this
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1d6307b1be7a061

[Lily from animove]

Ursh, on 07 February 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

I fire 2xERPPC in my mastered stormcrow, and watch the heat spike through the roof, and slowly go down.

I fire 2xERPPC in my non-elited Tbolt 9S and the heat barely spikes, and disappears extremely fast.

Which one was supposed to be technologically superior again?

of course the SCR is technical superior, but the TDR has the magic touch of the battletech gods.

[Ursh]

Lily from animove, on 07 February 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

of course the SCR is technical superior, but the TDR has the magic touch of the battletech gods.

Yes, the Gods are kind to this very special mech, for very special players. It's so nice when companies have charity features for special players.

[Gattsus]

Until they don't implement sized hardpoints I'll be at the corner crying.

(Whoever says that sized hardpoints are a convoluted gameplay mechanic.... remember ghost heat)

Edited by Gattsus, 07 February 2015 - 12:11 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Gattsus, on 07 February 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

Until they don't implement sized hardpoints I'll be at the corner crying.

(Whoever says sized hardpoints are convoluted.... remember ghost heat)

As for sized hardpoints, we just need 40 point fixed heat scale........then you can only fire maybe 2-3 guns and you gotta cool off for awhile.

[Lily from animove]

LordKnightFandragon, on 07 February 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

As for sized hardpoints, we just need 40 point fixed heat scale........then you can only fire maybe 2-3 guns and you gotta cool off for awhile.

not really, 2 gauss 2 PPC and you are still fine with a big alpha within 40 heatscale. there is a reaosn why MW had 30 heat as heatscale, it prevented this, it even prevented 3 CERLL from being shot. because then shutdown.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Lily from animove, on 07 February 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

not really, 2 gauss 2 PPC and you are still fine with a big alpha within 40 heatscale. there is a reaosn why MW had 30 heat as heatscale, it prevented this, it even prevented 3 CERLL from being shot. because then shutdown.

Well, my 40 point heat scale would be basically the first 10 heat taking over your engine and movement heat.

So a WHK with a 340 and moving at 71, would be 3.4 heat and 3.5 heat for 6.9 heat lost to engine and movment heat. That would give you 33,1 heat left to fire. So, I guess, yeah, you could fire the ERPPC for 30 heat the nthe GR for 2 more.....but that is where the Current Gauss mechanic of cant fire more then 2 would be useful. and cant group fire GR/PPC together would also be useful.

Ofc, I personally would put heat penalties at like 35-40 heat, what exactly, idk....above 40, it would be taking the amount of heat over 40 per second to your mech.....so 8 heat over 40, 3 per second coolant, 8, 5, 2= 15 Core damage taken before you get below 40. cannot turn back on until you reach 10 of 40 heat....and at 3/s, you would be standing there awhile.

[SweetJackal]

I often find complaints about the TDR-9S amusing. You complain that inside CW we see the 12 players on a side taking atleast one and it has a long range. That this creates a lack of variety in CW and for the time being I agree, though this is also a problem on the clan side. The TDR-9S sits about the same effectiveness as the Timberwolf so we see the current drop deck tonnage limits being more restrictive to the clan side vs the IS side for the time, a Player can comfortably fit 2 TDRs where clans get 1 Timberwolf. Variety is currently a problem on both sides when facing the Clans thanks to the 3-Doomcrow/1-Timberwolf Drop Deck that has been around long before the Quirkening and that is a drop deck that has infinitely more flexibility than a 2 TDR-9S deck thanks to the omnipod system. This lack of variety isn't fixed by nerfing the TDR-9S into the ground, it's fixed by varied drop deck restrictions for different worlds that will either make Heavies more punishing on tonnage or make the Heavies and Assaults that match or beat the TDR-9S's effectiveness easier to fit in a drop deck and less punishing to do so.

What makes the TDR-9S so common in CW is it's relative strength along with how easy it is to fit into a drop deck. That you see 6 of them a wave barfing ERPPC shots that mulch targets is less of a weapon or mech problem and more of the effect that pinpoint convergence to all mech locations has when combined with skilled opponents and coordination with team-shots. Nerfing the TDR-9S will only have some other mech rise up to take it's place and coordinated teams will still drop them in waves and use the effectiveness of team-shots.

I have seen the complaints that the only good TDR-9S build is with 3ERPPCs, when the statements from those that support and use the TDR-9S show that whether 2 or 3 ERPPCs are used is a matter of personal preference. The 3rd ERPPC needs to be stagger fired and is harder to use at range due to a lower mounted position so that leads to 2 ERPPC builds with the remaining tonnage used by MLs&SRMs or MPLs. Still ERPPC focused but a wider variety of weapons seen that make use of trade-offs. The 2 ERPPC builds trade maximum potential effectiveness at range for better brawling ability. Even with quirks the ERPPCs are extremely inefficient from a DPS/Ton perspective, a stat that does have some relevance when in knife fighting ranges.

I have been told that the 3 ERPPC is the best sniper mech in the game! Yet again those statements fall flat once you remember that the heat for firing 3 ERPPCs at once is extremely prohibitive and eats into the sustainability of even a cool running 9S. So again that third shot is staggered and again the damage is spread out. A 9S will lose a sniping battle to a Gauss-cat, Gauss-Jager or any Gauss+PPC sniping assault. However the 9S will perform better at closer ranges than the better sniper platforms due to the increased difficulty of using the Gauss Rifle as a brawling weapon.

I have been told that the heat quirks need to be changed to general instead of ERPPC specific, yet this ignores the other builds for the 9S and would make a false claim leveled against it true. It is often said that the 9S outperforms the Awesome at the intended role and they use the AWS-9M to reflect that statement. What they do ignore is that the AWS-8Q runs at the same heat efficiency per/with PPCs as the TDR-9S runs per/with ERPPCS (which is the same that the TDR-9S runs per/with PPCs.) The AWS-8Q has more tonnage to devote to heatsinks and weapons as well, meaning that it is able to bring more firepower to bear or run even cooler using PPCs than the TDR-9S can with ERPPCs or PPCs. The AWS-8Q with a build that makes use of it's bonuses is more dangerous with PPCs than the TDR-9S is with ERPPCs or PPCs.

That would get thrown out the window if the TDR-9S got PPC quirks or general heat quirks instead of ERPPC quirks. The entire mech would be running even cooler than it is now which will free up tonnage from heatsinks to use for more weapons. Doing so would have the TDR-9S outperform the Awesome at the thing it actually was designed to do, be a PPC beast.

All that aside, there is a problem. The problem doesn't exist solely within the TDR-9S but rather within the way convergence is handled, tonnage limits for CW and the quirk system itself. Right now the quick system treats a +50% machine-gun range as having the same value as a +50% ERPPC cooldown or heat reduction. It treats the same percentage bonuses as having the same effectiveness within the system and it's costs while ignoring what type of bonus it is giving and ignoring what that bonus is being applied to. This standard of level costs for uneven effectiveness has created a lot of confusion within the community over what is making what strong to the point that we have had people come out and complain about the velocity increases the TDR-9S gets.

That's right folks, we have had people complain about Velocity Speed Increase quirks being applied to the ERPPC.

TL:DR? The TDR-9S isn't broken OP. It is a mech with a small handful of builds that are very generalist and perform well at range. There are a good number of mechs that can take a situation and perform better in it than the TDR-9S can, something that cannot be said about it's clan competitor the Timberwolf back in it's prime days. It is currently a strong all rounder with a tonnage that is very easy to fit into CW drop decks where many specialist mechs that would outperform it are harder to fit into drop decks. Making drop deck tonnage varied by planet to either be harsher on the TDR-9S or easier on said Specialist Mechs will force more varied play on both the Clan and IS sides.

[Lily from animove]

SuckyJack, on 07 February 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

I often find complaints about the TDR-9S amusing. You complain that inside CW we see the 12 players on a side taking atleast one and it has a long range. That this creates a lack of variety in CW and for the time being I agree, though this is also a problem on the clan side. The TDR-9S sits about the same effectiveness as the Timberwolf so we see the current drop deck tonnage limits being more restrictive to the clan side vs the IS side for the time, a Player can comfortably fit 2 TDRs where clans get 1 Timberwolf. Variety is currently a problem on both sides when facing the Clans thanks to the 3-Doomcrow/1-Timberwolf Drop Deck that has been around long before the Quirkening and that is a drop deck that has infinitely more flexibility than a 2 TDR-9S deck thanks to the omnipod system. This lack of variety isn't fixed by nerfing the TDR-9S into the ground, it's fixed by varied drop deck restrictions for different worlds that will either make Heavies more punishing on tonnage or make the Heavies and Assaults that match or beat the TDR-9S's effectiveness easier to fit in a drop deck and less punishing to do so.

What makes the TDR-9S so common in CW is it's relative strength along with how easy it is to fit into a drop deck. That you see 6 of them a wave barfing ERPPC shots that mulch targets is less of a weapon or mech problem and more of the effect that pinpoint convergence to all mech locations has when combined with skilled opponents and coordination with team-shots. Nerfing the TDR-9S will only have some other mech rise up to take it's place and coordinated teams will still drop them in waves and use the effectiveness of team-shots.

I have seen the complaints that the only good TDR-9S build is with 3ERPPCs, when the statements from those that support and use the TDR-9S show that whether 2 or 3 ERPPCs are used is a matter of personal preference. The 3rd ERPPC needs to be stagger fired and is harder to use at range due to a lower mounted position so that leads to 2 ERPPC builds with the remaining tonnage used by MLs&SRMs or MPLs. Still ERPPC focused but a wider variety of weapons seen that make use of trade-offs. The 2 ERPPC builds trade maximum potential effectiveness at range for better brawling ability. Even with quirks the ERPPCs are extremely inefficient from a DPS/Ton perspective, a stat that does have some relevance when in knife fighting ranges.

I have been told that the 3 ERPPC is the best sniper mech in the game! Yet again those statements fall flat once you remember that the heat for firing 3 ERPPCs at once is extremely prohibitive and eats into the sustainability of even a cool running 9S. So again that third shot is staggered and again the damage is spread out. A 9S will lose a sniping battle to a Gauss-cat, Gauss-Jager or any Gauss+PPC sniping assault. However the 9S will perform better at closer ranges than the better sniper platforms due to the increased difficulty of using the Gauss Rifle as a brawling weapon.

I have been told that the heat quirks need to be changed to general instead of ERPPC specific, yet this ignores the other builds for the 9S and would make a false claim leveled against it true. It is often said that the 9S outperforms the Awesome at the intended role and they use the AWS-9M to reflect that statement. What they do ignore is that the AWS-8Q runs at the same heat efficiency per/with PPCs as the TDR-9S runs per/with ERPPCS (which is the same that the TDR-9S runs per/with PPCs.) The AWS-8Q has more tonnage to devote to heatsinks and weapons as well, meaning that it is able to bring more firepower to bear or run even cooler using PPCs than the TDR-9S can with ERPPCs or PPCs. The AWS-8Q with a build that makes use of it's bonuses is more dangerous with PPCs than the TDR-9S is with ERPPCs or PPCs.

That would get thrown out the window if the TDR-9S got PPC quirks or general heat quirks instead of ERPPC quirks. The entire mech would be running even cooler than it is now which will free up tonnage from heatsinks to use for more weapons. Doing so would have the TDR-9S outperform the Awesome at the thing it actually was designed to do, be a PPC beast.

All that aside, there is a problem. The problem doesn't exist solely within the TDR-9S but rather within the way convergence is handled, tonnage limits for CW and the quirk system itself. Right now the quick system treats a +50% machine-gun range as having the same value as a +50% ERPPC cooldown or heat reduction. It treats the same percentage bonuses as having the same effectiveness within the system and it's costs while ignoring what type of bonus it is giving and ignoring what that bonus is being applied to. This standard of level costs for uneven effectiveness has created a lot of confusion within the community over what is making what strong to the point that we have had people come out and complain about the velocity increases the TDR-9S gets.

That's right folks, we have had people complain about Velocity Speed Increase quirks being applied to the ERPPC.

TL:DR? The TDR-9S isn't broken OP. It is a mech with a small handful of builds that are very generalist and perform well at range. There are a good number of mechs that can take a situation and perform better in it than the TDR-9S can, something that cannot be said about it's clan competitor the Timberwolf back in it's prime days. It is currently a strong all rounder with a tonnage that is very easy to fit into CW drop decks where many specialist mechs that would outperform it are harder to fit into drop decks. Making drop deck tonnage varied by planet to either be harsher on the TDR-9S or easier on said Specialist Mechs will force more varied play on both the Clan and IS sides.

tdr is completely broken given how many other mechs it obsolets trying to use PPC's and ER PPC's. Trying to find argument to say its not broken is kinda trying to hide the truth, so what about the catapult? buff it to 60% or 70% ppc heat reduction to make it competitive? because its not even ER-PPC's its just PPC. Now try to figure out where such a journey would go to if you do this across all mechs.

and it's not "specialist" mech because cerppc's work at 1m as good as at their max range. its a heat based 3 ac 10 mech with increased range. can hardly be less broken.

Edited by Lily from animove, 07 February 2015 - 12:54 PM.

[Black Arachne]

aniviron, on 07 February 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

Just chiming in on the 9S again to wonder why the Thunderbolt 9S, a mech with one PPC stock on a chassis that was underwhelming but not awful, got quirks that are twice as powerful as the Awesome 9M, which is one of the worst mechs in the game, and is famous for being an ER PPC boat.

^This needs to be addressed.

I was forced to sell my Awesomes long ago before quirks due to current heat system/ghost heat - when quirks arrived I started to save cbills for them again but did I buy them no...I bought the TDR9S and the TDR5SS instead. Something needs to be done with hardpoints on the mech to limit how many large category weapons can be mounted.

[SweetJackal]

Lily from animove, on 07 February 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

tdr is completely broken given how many other mechs it obsolets trying to use PPC's and ER PPC's. Trying to find argument to say its not broken is kinda trying to hide the truth, so what about the catapult? buff it to 60% or 70% ppc heat reduction to make it competitive? because its not even ER-PPC's its just PPC. Now try to figure out where such a journey would go to if you do this across all mechs.

and it's not "specialist" mech because cerppc's work at 1m as good as at their max range. its a heat based 3 ac 10 mech with increased range. can hardly be less broken.

Might want to read it again, I think you missed a few things. The TDR-9S doesn't obsolete every other PPC/ERPPC focused mech, it is merely a good one. The AWS-8Q still outperforms it (which undercuts the statement that the 9S outperforms the 9M as the chassis is first and foremost a PPC powerhouse) and mechs like the Catapult-K2 are and have been obsolete without the existence of the quirks on the 9S. The K2 has been the kicked puppy of the game since the closed beta and has been mistreated by the quirk system.

The K2 itself has had it's hardpoints deflated, it's torso twist reduced and despite it's fragility due to shape and hitboxes it was placed as a high tier mech due to a dual AC/10, quad ML build used in competitive leagues at one point. As such it originally got weak quirks applied to the AC/10 and MLs to promote that 'meta build.' Changing it back to a PPC platform would dramatically drop it's tier rating and warrant stronger quirks tailored to PPCs and not ERPPCs (being that if you want to argue stock over meta the K2 was a PPC support platform.) The K2 is trash on it's own because of long standing nerfs that need to be undone and that the mech is a low tier variant that got the quirks of a higher tier variant.

Though do keep using hyperbole, I find it amusing. A 25% heat reduction to PPCs (the same one the Awesome gets) would put it's heat efficiency on par with the 9S. That's one quirk but the K2 will still be trash due to it's fragile body, reduced twist and deflated hardpoints. Those need to be addressed before the K2 can be seriously used as a sticking point to measure another mech against. Because guess what, every clan mech is better than the K2.

Also, please do point out the point I said the TDR-9S is a specialist mech. Several times in that post I pointed to it as a generalist mech that is good at range which is just like another heavy we know of: the Timberwolf in it's current form. And like both there are specialist mechs that dominate them in certain situations.

Edited by SuckyJack, 07 February 2015 - 01:28 PM.

[Ace Selin]

Yep, the 3 ERPPC 9S whilst great at sniping a few times then stopping due to heat, is quite sucky at defending itself from lights and bralwing up close, especially against AC/SRM(Streak) mechs who can continue pounding it while it overheats (and shuts down). The 9S is finally in a decent place.

Edited by Ace Selin, 07 February 2015 - 01:27 PM.

[Lily from animove]

SuckyJack, on 07 February 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

Might want to read it again, I think you missed a few things. The TDR-9S doesn't obsolete every other PPC/ERPPC focused mech, it is merely a good one. The AWS-8Q still outperforms it (which undercuts the statement that the 9S outperforms the 9M as the chassis is first and foremost a PPC powerhouse) and mechs like the Catapult-K2 are and have been obsolete without the existence of the quirks on the 9S. The K2 has been the kicked puppy of the game since the closed beta and has been mistreated by the quirk system.

The K2 itself has had it's hardpoints deflated, it's torso twist reduced and despite it's fragility due to shape and hitboxes it was placed as a high tier mech due to a dual AC/10, quad ML build used in competitive leagues at one point. As such it originally got weak quirks applied to the AC/10 and MLs to promote that 'meta build.' Changing it back to a PPC platform would dramatically drop it's tier rating and warrant stronger quirks tailored to PPCs and not ERPPCs (being that if you want to argue stock over meta the K2 was a PPC support platform.) The K2 is trash on it's own because of long standing nerfs that need to be undone and that the mech is a low tier variant that got the quirks of a higher tier variant.

Though do keep using hyperbole, I find it amusing. A 25% heat reduction to PPCs (the same one the Awesome gets) would put it's heat efficiency on par with the 9S. That's one quirk but the K2 will still be trash due to it's fragile body, reduced twist and deflated hardpoints. Those need to be addressed before the K2 can be seriously used as a sticking point to measure another mech against. Because guess what, every clan mech is better than the K2.

Also, please do point out the point I said the TDR-9S is a specialist mech. Several times in that post I pointed to it as a generalist mech that is good at range which is just like another heavy we know of: the Timberwolf in it's current form. And like both there are specialist mechs that dominate them in certain situations.

a matter of palystyle, when the awesome tries to move his boob ppc's over the hill, the TDR has already shot and is back in cover.

Ace Selin, on 07 February 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

Yep, the 3 ERPPC 9S whilst great at sniping a few times then stopping due to heat, is quite sucky at defending itself from lights and bralwing up close, especially against AC/SRM(Streak) mechs who can continue pounding it while it overheats (and shuts down). The 9S is finally in a decent place.

Shooting 3 then stopping at heat? if you can not serverly cripple any light mech with 9 10dmg ppFLD shots you just should go to the testinground and lern aiming. Seriously. not trying to bash anyone.

Edited by Lily from animove, 07 February 2015 - 01:32 PM.

[SweetJackal]

Lily from animove, on 07 February 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

a matter of palystyle, when the awesome tries to move his boob ppc's over the hill, the TDR has already shot and is back in cover.

Congratulations, you found the greatest strength of the TDR-9S, hill humping. A realm it is competing alongside the Stalker and Jager for dominance. Though when hill humping that 3rd ERPPC is useless, the Jager and Stalker can pack more firepower into their high mounted hardpoints. Heat Efficiency and cooldown matters less when you have a protective cover anyways as you are in control of when you expose yourself to fire, so the biggest complaint against it matters less in this situation. Before the 9S was even out and even before the quirkening I was doing this with the 5SS, abusing the power of those high mounted energy hardpoints to great effectiveness.

But yes, it is a matter of playstyle. An Awesome playing to the strengths of the TDR-9S will take massive damage and lose, the same goes with any other combination of mechs. For example, the Atlas is another mech with low slung hardpoints that don't clear buildings so you could face smash it with something like a Blackjack at close range so long as you keep such intervening terrain between you and it. It's why playing a poke game against long range mechs is rarely a good idea and there are often other paths to take that provide cover for your own movement while you position to negate their cover.

The positioning you want with a TDR-9S or Stalker is different than what you want with an Awesome or an Atlas. But that matter of strengths and weaknesses is what makes trade offs. The TDR-9S isn't dominating specialist mechs that are viable in their own right and it also has glaring weaknesses that other mechs can capitalize on if played smartly. It's why my Wubverine munches on them ERPPC boating 9S, same reason why I was outperforming on 2 ERPPCs compared to 3 when I was piloting the 9S myself. All of this on mechs -without- jump jets to abuse positioning even further, a simple matter that the Resistance Pack will make even more complex very soon.

Lily from animove, on 07 February 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

Shooting 3 then stopping at heat? if you can not serverly cripple any light mech with 9 10dmg ppFLD shots you just should go to the testinground and lern aiming. Seriously. not trying to bash anyone.

To that I can say that if you are letting 2+1 volley shots hit the same location 3 times, no matter if you are a light mech or an Assault, then you might want to rethink what you are doing. One side of the equation is aiming and timing and positioning, the defending side of the equation is movement, twisting and positioning. Lights can use speed to avoid being predictable and get better positioning, everything else should be able to get even positioning and use movement and twisting to prevent damage from stacking in the same place.

Then you just go for the ST to neuter the 9S and laugh as they just became easier pickings than a YLW without the gun arm.

[Smokeyjedi]

WarZ, on 07 February 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

What F'ing pipe are you smoking ?!?

Clan weapons are almost entirely spread damage weapons. For the only 2 that are not, gauss and erppc (which btw also has a spread effect for clans), the IS has access to them as well, AND... the IS is able to boat them far better on more mechs. Plus the IS has a greater range of FLD weapons in general.

I mean WTF, is your argument really what IS players are using now a days ??? Because that is weak and ignorant on multiple levels. You obviously are one of the non thinking "clan are op" spouters, who are just pissed because you die to a clan mech. The "clan are op" cry has always been a hyper inflated statement with a weak "perception based" argument. There are a LOT of issues clan mechs have. But the IS players NEVER want to point those out. Mainly because their cries fall apart really fast. RoFL. Just hilarious.

Are you stunned or just being obtuse?

A stormcrow or timberwolf using energy weapons will pinpoint a single panel on a mech @ 800 M way better than say a Atlas RS with 4LL

A STLKR with torso mounted energy is on par with Clan arm mounted weapons..........Think about that for a second before you say more stupid crap.