153 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

AlphaToaster, on 10 February 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

People don't like being told they are responsible for their own situation, because that means they have to do something about it themselves and it's not anyone else's fault but their own.

Welcome to the human race. Where are you from?





(I'm sorry. You left an opening that I just couldn't resist! )

[AlphaToaster]

Mystere, on 10 February 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

Welcome to the human race. Where are you from?





(I'm sorry. You left an opening that I just couldn't resist! )

Why thank you.

[NuclearPanda]

crustydog, on 07 February 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

Just played about 8 matches today...

There are around 200 players in the queues...

That is about 60 - 75 Clanners - mostly premades

And about 130 Inner Sphere - almost entirely pugs.

You can well imagine the results.


Truth be told, I can only take so much abuse in one day.

Take Roadbeer's advice about grouping up with members of your faction.

[Herodes]

There a reother reasons, very valid reasons, for not joining units and using comms.
Like not having the time for more than a few matches per week, like not having the time to practice gameplay and socialize for an online game, like not speaking English in a way that makes it easy to communicate with strangers speaking slang over voice comms, like having toddlers sleeping in the next room and so on. That's just the reality of life.

I am one of those. And looking at the franchise I think there are more like me out there. I would be quite happy if there was a way to be a part of the community and quickly and painlessly form groups for just a few drops if I happen to have the time. Right now, there is no real solution offered, at least not for me. Which does not mean I am anti-group. Not at all. I am just not able to accept what is offered now.

And this is where I think PGI should implement other ways. At least Ihope they will.

[Mystere]

Herodes, on 10 February 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

There a reother reasons, very valid reasons, for not joining units and using comms.
Like not having the time for more than a few matches per week, like not having the time to practice gameplay and socialize for an online game, like not speaking English in a way that makes it easy to communicate with strangers speaking slang over voice comms, like having toddlers sleeping in the next room and so on. That's just the reality of life.

I am one of those. And looking at the franchise I think there are more like me out there. I would be quite happy if there was a way to be a part of the community and quickly and painlessly form groups for just a few drops if I happen to have the time. Right now, there is no real solution offered, at least not for me. Which does not mean I am anti-group. Not at all. I am just not able to accept what is offered now.

And this is where I think PGI should implement other ways. At least Ihope they will.

As someone who plays only solo, I can assure you that all is not lost.

When I get teamed up with one or more groups, I request the biggest group to take command if no one takes it.
When I drop with a purely PUG group, I take command on days that I feel like doing so. If I don't feel like doing so, I request someone else to take command and implore the rest to follow orders.
All this is done via team chat.

Sometimes it works out fine. Sometimes I want to enter into the ether and erase people via a detonation of their monitor.

[mania3c]

kamiko kross, on 10 February 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

You come on this thread and arrogantly dismiss him. You are indeed beyond help. He made some good suggestions.
"change the game to cater to casuals" isn't a good idea. Lookat what happened to Wow/SWG etc....

This stupidity again...

it is PGI's the wettest dream to be a WoW..okey..look what happend to wow...it's the most thriving game in the west market, earning huge money and causals have fun along side hardcore players ...that's horrible design indeed..
BTW, i am arrogant as much as other people saying same thing again and again "game is fun, learn to play, it's your own fault"..honestly, I keep thinking if people are trolling, not thinking about it or just stupid..I think a bit of everything..

PGI wants new players...they told us this many many times before...whole 3rd person fiasco aimed to keep new players in the game, matchmaking adjustments etc. They know without new blood, no money ..this is how it goes.. and I agree new player experience needs huge overhaul ..new tutorials, new modes..whole cadet experience has to be fun and rewarding to keep new player in the game...there are many good ideas how to make it however..this will never ever put pugs and groups on the same level...and without adjusting game so casuals can play as casuals, hardcore as hardcore players..MWO will keep loosing players ..no matter how good tutorials will be..

Do you think I want this game to die? I love mechwarrior, I am here for several years already, I put quite a lot money into this game and I was defending this game so much last years..but today..as I said..this community is outright stupid with whole "it's player's fault " argument ..and more I read..more I think this game is just done and people like you are just digging the grave..if you really think anything..VOIP, new tutorials, more communications tools will ever make pug vs premade at least fun game..if not fair..it is really beyond help... wont ever happen..

[Davers]

mania3c, on 10 February 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

Yea..I heard that manytimes..yet..when someone asked for some evidence..it never happens ..

Go play 10 pugs game today..and post your end-screens..

VOIP will do pretty much nothing... communication is just one of the many factors, why pugs don't stand a chance against organized premades..and they never will..not matter how many tools you will throw on them.. I see some people like Mystere have hard times to grasp even single concepts how these things works ..but anyway..as long as PGI will be throwing all players into same pool without any regulations, MWO is pretty much dead for most players...

Why would I choose to do 10 pug CW matches, when PGI allows me to do 10 grouped matches? Why don't you send friend requests to people on your team so you can make a group? That way you can have every advantage the 12 mans have, save for the fact they have played together? Maybe you should just play in the Public Queues?

mania3c, on 10 February 2015 - 11:42 PM, said:

This stupidity again...

it is PGI's the wettest dream to be a WoW..okey..look what happend to wow...it's the most thriving game in the west market, earning huge money and causals have fun along side hardcore players ...that's horrible design indeed..
BTW, i am arrogant as much as other people saying same thing again and again "game is fun, learn to play, it's your own fault"..honestly, I keep thinking if people are trolling, not thinking about it or just stupid..I think a bit of everything..

PGI wants new players...they told us this many many times before...whole 3rd person fiasco aimed to keep new players in the game, matchmaking adjustments etc. They know without new blood, no money ..this is how it goes.. and I agree new player experience needs huge overhaul ..new tutorials, new modes..whole cadet experience has to be fun and rewarding to keep new player in the game...there are many good ideas how to make it however..this will never ever put pugs and groups on the same level...and without adjusting game so casuals can play as casuals, hardcore as hardcore players..MWO will keep loosing players ..no matter how good tutorials will be..

Do you think I want this game to die? I love mechwarrior, I am here for several years already, I put quite a lot money into this game and I was defending this game so much last years..but today..as I said..this community is outright stupid with whole "it's player's fault " argument ..and more I read..more I think this game is just done and people like you are just digging the grave..if you really think anything..VOIP, new tutorials, more communications tools will ever make pug vs premade at least fun game..if not fair..it is really beyond help... wont ever happen..

Ever play PVP in WoW against an organized guild on comms? How is that a different experience compared to here?

[mania3c]

Davers, on 10 February 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

Why would I choose to do 10 pug CW matches, when PGI allows me to do 10 grouped matches? Why don't you send friend requests to people on your team so you can make a group? That way you can have every advantage the 12 mans have, save for the fact they have played together? Maybe you should just play in the Public Queues?

some people don't have time, will, mood/are soloists to play with group...you have no right to judge these people..it's just fact, which has to be accepted that majority of players in any multiplayer game have their own reasons why they don't play in groups.. and they wont change no matter how much you will ask them to do that..if there is not environment for them, they will leave...and moment, when pugs and casuals will be removed from the game is the exact moment, when game has no future...that's basically the fact.

Davers, on 10 February 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

Ever play PVP in WoW against an organized guild on comms? How is that a different experience compared to here?

I never had to..that's why I was playing wow PvP for years..and here and there I am still logging in to play few battlegrounds..I am not logging into MWO anymore as many of my friends...I hope you see the pattern..

[Davers]

mania3c, on 11 February 2015 - 12:06 AM, said:

some people don't have time, will, mood/are soloists to play with group...you have no right to judge these people..it's just fact, which has to be accepted that majority of players in any multiplayer game have their own reasons why they don't play in groups.. and they wont change no matter how much you will ask them to do that..if there is not environment for them, they will leave...and moment, when pugs and casuals will be removed from the game is the exact moment, when game has no future...that's basically the fact.


I never had to..that's why I was playing wow PvP for years..and here and there I am still logging in to play few battlegrounds..I am not logging into MWO anymore as many of my friends...I hope you see the pattern..

Since when did WoW prevent units from dropping together with 3rd party VOIP? How else did you avoid playing them?

I am not judging anyone. I am just saying CW may not be for you. Invasion should be available in the regular queues perhaps.

Other than VOIP, which you think will not help Solo players (which is actually opposite of what most solo players are claiming), what do you think puts solo players at a disadvantage?

[mania3c]

Davers, on 11 February 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

Since when did WoW prevent units from dropping together with 3rd party VOIP? How else did you avoid playing them?

I am not judging anyone. I am just saying CW may not be for you. Invasion should be available in the regular queues perhaps.

Other than VOIP, which you think will not help Solo players (which is actually opposite of what most solo players are claiming), what do you think puts solo players at a disadvantage?

Since WoW is using pug matchmaker, when you are queuing as solo player. In worst case scenario, you can be grouped against pug + 5 man group in 10 man battleground (since matchmaker will never every put more groups into one team when other team has none) ...but in most cases..when there is group in one team, there is another group on other team..it's balancing it quite nicely.

what are pugs disadvantages aside the VOIP.. aside the VOIP..i would rather put this into "communication" ..units have their tactics already learned..for specific maps and scenarios. So they don't really need communicate this to other unit members which mechs to drop first, where which lance is going, how to play if that or that will happen.. this is wide range of issues what units and pugs can't be compared.. while I understand this could be communicate in perfect world, we all know this will never happen. casuals and pugs, even when they will try really hard ( and I was in some casual groups with some really smart players and lot of communications..however..against premades..there was never ever even spark of the hope)..people will still drop is wrong order, don't react perfectly on focus fire, wont use consumables in exact right time etc.. and voip wont fix it in any way shape or form..could make it a bit easier..but organized groups will still steam-roll over them..

and this lead to another big problem with casuals and pugs.. People has to understand that units/organized play and casuals are very different beasts in EVERY game..not just in MWO..in MWO case, casuals are playing with mechs they like, with builds they are comfortable with..are using modules only when they grinded enough CB..so in most cases..some mechs have few modules..some have none and even If (and again this will never happen) pug would be able to communicate everything perfectly..perfect tactics for played map, which mechs to drop first, where which lance has to be, calling target in right time and syncing consumables usage, pug mechs will never stand a chance against perfect meta builds, full moduled mechs..

As long as people will be denying this and will argue, that every casual can be hardcore player and play in organized group..nothing will be fixed..we will either allow casuals play as casuals and hardcore players as hardcore players and have healthy environment or CW, as it is now..has no future.

[Will HellFire]

You already have what you are asking for mania3c...its called the solo queue.

But asking that CW which is designed for groups, to cater to your requests is downright prepotent and arrogant.

[mania3c]

Will HellFire, on 11 February 2015 - 02:13 AM, said:

You already have what you are asking for mania3c...its called the solo queue.

But asking that CW which is designed for groups, to cater to your requests is downright prepotent and arrogant.

that's what would be perfect..for me...if all changes, maps and modes would carry into quick play..it would fix majority of the issues we currently have ...and kill CW in the process.. not sure if it would be win..but I believe it would be better..

[Herodes]

mania3c, on 11 February 2015 - 01:14 AM, said:

what are pugs disadvantages aside the VOIP.. aside the VOIP..i would rather put this into "communication" ..units have their tactics already learned..for specific maps and scenarios. So they don't really need communicate this to other unit members which mechs to drop first, where which lance is going, how to play if that or that will happen.. this is wide range of issues what units and pugs can't be compared.. while I understand this could be communicate in perfect world, we all know this will never happen. casuals and pugs, even when they will try really hard ( and I was in some casual groups with some really smart players and lot of communications..however..against premades..there was never ever even spark of the hope)..people will still drop is wrong order, don't react perfectly on focus fire, wont use consumables in exact right time etc.. and voip wont fix it in any way shape or form..could make it a bit easier..but organized groups will still steam-roll over them..

and this lead to another big problem with casuals and pugs.. People has to understand that units/organized play and casuals are very different beasts in EVERY game..not just in MWO..in MWO case, casuals are playing with mechs they like, with builds they are comfortable with..are using modules only when they grinded enough CB..so in most cases..some mechs have few modules..some have none and even If (and again this will never happen) pug would be able to communicate everything perfectly..perfect tactics for played map, which mechs to drop first, where which lance has to be, calling target in right time and syncing consumables usage, pug mechs will never stand a chance against perfect meta builds, full moduled mechs..

As long as people will be denying this and will argue, that every casual can be hardcore player and play in organized group..nothing will be fixed..we will either allow casuals play as casuals and hardcore players as hardcore players and have healthy environment or CW, as it is now..has no future.

This ^^^^

Edited by Herodes, 11 February 2015 - 02:20 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Davers, on 10 February 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

Why would I choose to do 10 pug CW matches, when PGI allows me to do 10 grouped matches? Why don't you send friend requests to people on your team so you can make a group? That way you can have every advantage the 12 mans have, save for the fact they have played together? Maybe you should just play in the Public Queues?

Dear lord, no. Don't send 'em to the solo queue. We've got a hard enough time carrying new players. Last thing we need are a bunch of group players coming over and screwing things up.

Davers, on 10 February 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

Ever play PVP in WoW against an organized guild on comms? How is that a different experience compared to here?

I have. I don't see much difference at all.

[Ax2Grind]

Davers, on 11 February 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

Invasion should be available in the regular queues perhaps.

I'm confused why it's not. At least the basic "counterattack" skirmish form of each map. Giving folks the chance to enjoy the content in any game mode would be a good thing from my perspective, and might even give folks the needed experience to feel more comfortable when they PUG in CW. And why are these maps not in the training grounds yet? Davers, fix this.

[Jon Gotham]

Will HellFire, on 11 February 2015 - 02:13 AM, said:

You already have what you are asking for mania3c...its called the solo queue.

But asking that CW which is designed for groups, to cater to your requests is downright prepotent and arrogant.

This over and over.

mania3c, on 11 February 2015 - 02:15 AM, said:

that's what would be perfect..for me...if all changes, maps and modes would carry into quick play..it would fix majority of the issues we currently have ...and kill CW in the process.. not sure if it would be win..but I believe it would be better..

This is the crux of it and frankly I thank you for being honest about it. Finally one of you openly admits it. Rest assured this is the direction the game IS going in, slowly but surely. PGI might get a higher turnover rate with occasional spends but long term players, staying for the long term? MWO should be more than just log on, shootzorz robotsss log off after 20 minutes.
PGI had all these visions, the players had all these hopes and they are slowly being killed off by people who refuse to engage.
I spent my last money I am willing to spend on MWO this week. For me, it's simply not worth investing anymore money into something that's evolving into a throwaway filler game.
I'm frankly mad as hell at the time I've wasted over the past year with it. I'm seeing the re-run of the arty ragers in Wot all over again, that ended with one class of tank being unplayable. As for the WOW analogy...sure it still is a successful but only 50% as successful due to them over simplifying the game. I went from playing that game daily to once or twice a week, because it has become so simplistic it can't hold my attention. My entire 40 man raidgroup QUIT because of it.
But hey johnny casual can play his 2 hours per week without having to feel lie he has to put any effort in! He's happy, but the larger longer term pop isn't.
I currently enjoy CW...as a pug. It's the only game mode I like, both the other two have become horrible to me. Why do you want to take away CW as well? It'll go the same was as solo queue (which has toxic gameplay) and will end up like a less co ordinated group queue , which sadly mostly plays like the solo queue these days.
I've gone from playing MWO daily to about twice a week. I log on, check my friends list-if no one is on or no groups are on the go I play one or two games and then log off. Why? because it's slowly becoming a solo only game, that the players don't engage in or care about outside of their ten minute shooty robot lolfest.

[Herodes]

I think in the end it is really easy. I will not support a game that expensive with my hard earned cash any more if PGI develops it for others and not for me or my amusement. I won't give them money so that they develop a game for you. I want a part of it if I pay.
Even if I don't have the time to play competetive I do love BT and the gameplay as much as anyone else and I support the game as a casual player. With money, a lot of money.
I have spent countless $$ for MWO in the last years but if it goes "join a unit and go pro or the game is no longer for you" I won't let the door hit me on my way out.

It is really simple and up to PGI to do the math and try to please a maximum number of paying customers. I don't care how they achieve this goal but I do know that my support ends when I am virtually cut off the fun.

Quote

PGI had all these visions, the players had all these hopes and they are slowly being killed off by people who refuse to engage.

This is quite an unfair statement. Who tells you that casual players don't have hopes and visions and aren't capable of supporting and maintaining a healthy community? Just because they play less or not as well as others? This is an assumption that I think is blatantly false and arrogant. You can't just dismiss people's opinions and wishes like that. And PGI can't dismiss their money just like that. At least I hope so.

[Joseph Mallan]

Herodes, on 11 February 2015 - 05:29 AM, said:

It is really simple and up to PGI to do the math and try to please a maximum number of paying customers. I don't care how they achieve this goal but I do know that my support ends when I am virtually cut off the fun.

The Maximum number of players may or may not include you OR I. PGI cannot be worried about the individuals. That includes you or I. Thinking otherwise is selfish in the grandest scale.

[mania3c]

kamiko kross, on 11 February 2015 - 05:04 AM, said:

This is the crux of it and frankly I thank you for being honest about it. Finally one of you openly admits it. Rest assured this is the direction the game IS going in, slowly but surely.

You are ignorant and still didn't get it.. (not surprised honestly) Casuals are long term players too.. there is so many wrong with your post I have not sure where to begin ..but honestly..if you think game could only cater to casuals or hardcore..there is nothing what I can say and it would make any difference..you have no idea what you are talking about..

I was just pointing to many flaws what CW has..If would PGI allows play new maps outside the CW and allows players to farm LP, most casuals would never ever touch CW at all..noone really cares about planets..casuals want just to play game..so again..if all changes would be carried to to quick play, CW would most probably die out..

Joseph Mallan, on 11 February 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

The Maximum number of players may or may not include you OR I. PGI cannot be worried about the individuals. That includes you or I. Thinking otherwise is selfish in the grandest scale.

It's pretty safe to assume that at this point..most potential players are no longer present in the game..at least not in CW..however..if PGI want keep this boat afloat, they really have to think about casuals too..because this model is not sustainable with hardcore crowd only..

Edited by mania3c, 11 February 2015 - 05:55 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

mania3c, on 11 February 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

You are ignorant and still didn't get it.. (not surprised honestly) Casuals are long term players too.. there is so many wrong with your post I have not sure where to begin ..but honestly..if you think game could only cater to casuals or hardcore..there is nothing what I can say and it would make any difference..you have no idea what you are talking about..

I was just pointing to many flaws what CW has..If would PGI allows play new maps outside the CW and allows players to farm LP, most casuals would never ever touch CW at all..noone really cares about planets..casuals want just to play game..so again..if all changes would be carried to to quick play, CW would most probably die out..

It's pretty safe to assume that at this point..most potential players are no longer present in the game..at least not in CW..however..if PGI want keep this boat afloat, they really have to think about casuals too..because this model is not sustainable with hardcore crowd only..

And the casual crowd (like myself) need to be willing to face teh odds in a hard mode.