153 replies to this topic

[mania3c]

Dawnstealer, on 11 February 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

And I get it from the merc perspective, too. They want tags on planets, they want to get standing with all the powers, and so on. Anyways - if CW is this frustrating for you, why play? I'm not saying that to be a ****: I honestly don't get why you would continue to engage in something that's so obviously frustrating for you.

I am taking break since CW kicked in..I played several matches but most of them were just horrible and bad experience..I have friend, which is playing here and there and he reports exactly same experience I Had..

Anyway..I am not frustrated by game at all..however you have to understand..many people..me included, invested quite a lot money and time into this game.. many people were investing into this game based on promises we had from devs ..yea..probably it was too much trust on our part..however knew we are still playing just part of the game..CW was missing..and CW was supposed to be core..

Now CW is here and damn..it's not something what was promised..and it's not something what I enjoy..even I like current mech bashing experience... it's a content I was looking forward and I can't enjoy it ..also, there is pretty clear indication PGI pulled all resources into CW and if this is CW's future..I and many other wont ever enjoy it..

So what our options are..provide feedback what we believe is wrong and suggest some fixes or just forget about it, suck it up and be sad this game is not worth our money..

Mystere, on 11 February 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

Item #3 is the only real solution. But the "I want everything nao or I will rage quit!" mentality displayed by a lot of people is not helping at all.

or be smart and design all modes for everyone...what a fantastic idea..

Roadbeer, on 11 February 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

If I give you a cookie, will you stop your tantrum?

Who you are kidding..you would cry ..

Edited by mania3c, 11 February 2015 - 01:06 PM.

[Apnu]

Roadbeer, on 11 February 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

So, I have a question.

If over the last 3 years, absolutely nothing has changed in the regards to the "Abuse of PUGs", despite Elo, Matchmaker, removal of groups over 4, etc., etc. In both the Public and CW queues

Why do people still insist on being PUGs?

Time commitment. Also the game has little to no social aspects. Its hard as a newbie to find units. Sure there's these forums and google, but the names I see hanging out here is only a small fraction of the players I see in any given game. So some people just play the game in the game and that's it. If the game doesn't tell them: "This is a 'thinking man's shooter', you should be join a group" many players just won't.

Yes all the clues are there, but human beings can be incredibly dense.

If the game had ways to influence players to group up, to join units, there'd be less of a problem like this.

(What comes next, I'm not directing personally at your Roadbeer, I'm talking in general)

However, there will always be a sizable population in any gaming community that plays solo or with a handful of friends and that's it. Those players, with the way CW is, are at a significant disadvantage. It doesn't help that many loud mouthed CW players also crap on them, effectively telling them that this part of the game they like is off-limits to them. Which is hogwash to say the least. These solo and small group players pay to play like the rest of us. They have a right to play the whole game, as much as the dedicated CW players do.

This community is toxic as hell and pretty sh*tty to each other, one loud bully can cause a flood of people leave. Its like those #gamergate jerks driving women from games. It accomplishes nothing, and helps no-one, while hurting everything, including and especially the games they love.

Already we're seeing a wild romp in CW where many of the top groups are going to the clans and wrecking the IS, not because they're better, but because they're clubbing seals and some are being snots about it. CW has a significant population issue and the game needs as many players as possible playing it for CW to work. By having an attitude "GTFO, this is mine" that serves only to suppress the player population in CW.

And it doesn't help that CW currently, gleefully it seems, to line up PUGs with premades. That won't hold. I'm calling it right now. PGI will separate the teams from the PUGs again in CW. They will never require all players in CW to group up, and the whining and moaning here and other places will move PGI to seperate the two queues like they did in the past with the public queue.

There are a lot of other ways PGI could be handling game match making, but they've chosen a path that will lead them to queue separation and have shown no interest in changing that course (say a lobby system before selecting a planet to attack/defend)

[Apnu]

Mystere, on 11 February 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

Item #3 is the only real solution. But the "I want everything nao or I will rage quit!" mentality displayed by a lot of people is not helping at all.

Yes. the MWO community acts like a bunch of spoiled children. I respect PGI for remaining so calm with the hysterics players have around here.

I'll drop in CW with HHoD when time allows. I've PUG'd CW a few times and its a bad experience from a solo perspective. So I'm content to sit back and wait for more CW features that suit my available time to game and hit the public queue for practice and c-bills.

[Dawnstealer]

I own over 70 mechs and nearly all the heroes. I bought into the Overlord package, the highest Resistance package, even the highest level Urbanmech package. I didn't buy any Clan mechs, because I'm in IS purist. I've bought camo packs for my mechs, special colors, many mechbays for all those mechs, and so on.

Trust me: I've put a fair amount of money into this game. It's my entertainment, so I don't mind spending some money on it. I'm also curious where PGI will go with this thing, what they'll implement, and what they won't. I want to stick around to see the finished product. Glad to hear you're taking a break.

[Mystere]

mania3c, on 11 February 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

or be smart and design all modes for everyone...what a fantastic idea..

So go tell PGI that!

[Apnu]

Dawnstealer, on 11 February 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

I own over 70 mechs and nearly all the heroes. I bought into the Overlord package, the highest Resistance package, even the highest level Urbanmech package. I didn't buy any Clan mechs, because I'm in IS purist. I've bought camo packs for my mechs, special colors, many mechbays for all those mechs, and so on.

Trust me: I've put a fair amount of money into this game. It's my entertainment, so I don't mind spending some money on it. I'm also curious where PGI will go with this thing, what they'll implement, and what they won't. I want to stick around to see the finished product. Glad to hear you're taking a break.

For me its not a break, just adjusting my view to a longer perspective like you. Like you, I'm a "whale" I'm an Elite Founder (I regret not spending the extra $60 for the top tier), I'm a Phoenix Overlord and Reinforcement buyer. I'm a Resistance Wrath level buyer and bought the Urbie $40 pack. I also skipped clans because I'm a IS purist and I own about half the heroes. Some just don't interest me.

I'm never going to throw a tantrum like some and demand a product designed to my random and fevered specifications. That's just irrational hysterics. Life's better for me, when I'm rational and mellow, so I choose not to get worked up by PGI's design decisions if I disagree with them (and I do on the topic of 10v12, sharply). But I'm not going to give a stink about it.

There's a lot of fan entitlement going on around here. Players think because they play, they're entitled to something from PGI. They aren't. They are simply one mewling kitten in a box of kittens and it all sounds like line noise to PGI. PGI doesn't owe us anything. They make a product, we have the option to buy it or not, if we don't like what we bought, that's on us. Its like buying a candy bar and not liking it, then going back to the candy maker and harassing them about something that didn't taste good to one person. The simplest solution is to throw the candy bar in the trash and get on with their lives.

But no... not gamers. Not on the Internet. Everything has to be the most of something. The most epically awesome mech mashing mayhem with unicorns crapping rainbows, or the worst game ever that scars them forever and they can only exercise that demon by giving devs cancer. Seriously, that's how players are.

In short this is still true over 10 years later:


What's strange to me is we now live in an era of perpetual development and customer feedback influencing that endless development cycle. At first I thought that was a novelty for small shops, but now that Microsoft is doing it for Win10, this must be the new normal. Given the hysterics of people on the Internet this blows my mind any organization would do this, but here we are.

[Dawnstealer]

And I get that. The problem, like you point out, is that this is a game that will ALWAYS be in development. That's just the nature of this kind of game. And when you're used to a like Call of Duty, that's got a huge budget and an army of testers and then rolls out as a finished project, being involved in a game like this, where they're scraping the makings of the sausage off the floor and finding fingernails and whatnot.

What some people are doing, is slurping up that sausage and saying "WHAT IS THIS?? A FINGERNAIL? WHY IS THERE A FINGERNAIL IN MY SAUSAGE?!"

Well, you ate it before they mulch that ******* up and hide it like they do in FINISHED sausage. That's why.

If you're the type that really like the finished, polished, perfect game, then you probably want to log in every couple months, see where it's at, and then dive when it hits a point you're comfortable with. If you're like me, seeing the evolution of this thing has been kind of fun; even the goofy, head-spinning parts when they were trying to get LRMs figured out, for example.

[Apnu]

Dawnstealer, on 11 February 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

And I get that. The problem, like you point out, is that this is a game that will ALWAYS be in development. That's just the nature of this kind of game. And when you're used to a like Call of Duty, that's got a huge budget and an army of testers and then rolls out as a finished project, being involved in a game like this, where they're scraping the makings of the sausage off the floor and finding fingernails and whatnot.

What some people are doing, is slurping up that sausage and saying "WHAT IS THIS?? A FINGERNAIL? WHY IS THERE A FINGERNAIL IN MY SAUSAGE?!"

Well, you ate it before they mulch that ******* up and hide it like they do in FINISHED sausage. That's why.

If you're the type that really like the finished, polished, perfect game, then you probably want to log in every couple months, see where it's at, and then dive when it hits a point you're comfortable with. If you're like me, seeing the evolution of this thing has been kind of fun; even the goofy, head-spinning parts when they were trying to get LRMs figured out, for example.

^^^ Good points ^^^

[Doc Sav]

Hopefully if voice chat and LFG mechanisms are implemented, this will become less of an issue. But of course a pre made 12 man with experience playing together will always do better than a straight pug or mixed group, and they should. They have put the effort and practice into it, and segregating the pugs would be stupid.

[Joseph Mallan]

mania3c, on 11 February 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

.however you have to understand..many people..me included, invested quite a lot money and time into this game.. many people were investing into this game based on promises we had from devs ..yea..probably it was too much trust on our part..however knew we are still playing just part of the game..CW was missing..and CW was supposed to be core..

This sounds like me. I have lots of time, money and finger cramps invested in this game.

Quote

Now CW is here and damn..it's not something what was promised..and it's not something what I enjoy..even I like current mech bashing experience... it's a content I was looking forward and I can't enjoy it

CW is not complete. BUT if it is to much of what you don't want you do have the option to walk away from the game. I have walked away from Neverwinter, SW:TOR, StarTrek;Online, Cause I reached a point that I was just not enjoying the game. SW:TOR I sunk some money into the others not a penny. I did not go into the forums and demand changes, I played the game and found it not to my liking, and walked away.

MW:O is not fully to my liking, But I can and do have fun, as to many others. You use that word a lot, MANY. Are you sure you and those thinking like you are really MANY? In teh grand scheme of the game's population are you MANY or are you a few?

100 people sounds like a lot. Until you put it in context.
100:500 Alot
100:1000 Some
100:100,000 a few
100:1,000,000 very few

So how many people agree with you vs teh the entire game's populace determines if MANY people agree with you. IF they do PGI will do something about it. If they don't, you are a minority and will be given as much consideration as your small voice warrants.

[1DeathWalkingTerror1]

Won 8 out of 8 PUG drops last night against mostly IS premades...go figure. Swings and roundabouts, game changes from night to night.

[Almond Brown]

mania3c, on 11 February 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

do you really believe this? I am also avid PvP player for 15 years..and most pvp players don't mind losing as long as game feels fair...Maybe you are talking about yourself?

Why are hardcore players so afraid, they will have to face true resistance in form of another premade? this is really lol-worthy..

If what you state is true, then you also understand that any PVP game that any players under takes, and is 6-12 months (or 2.5 years) behind those who got in on the ground floor will never face a truly "fair" environment. Unless, they are corralled or disallowed play in the higher Ranks. CW is the higher Ranks of MWO. Should Cadets and those under 250 Matches played, simply be disallowed into CW?

What many want is the whole 50 Ranks system, so they can creep up slow. Sadly that is not available but the allowed Match variations available should provide "everyone" with an area they can play/train and learn in.

Public Matches
Private Matches
Community Warfare

How many more "divisions" are really necessary? Really.

Edited by Almond Brown, 12 February 2015 - 09:15 AM.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Apnu, on 11 February 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

For me its not a break, just adjusting my view to a longer perspective like you. Like you, I'm a "whale" I'm an Elite Founder (I regret not spending the extra $60 for the top tier), I'm a Phoenix Overlord and Reinforcement buyer. I'm a Resistance Wrath level buyer and bought the Urbie $40 pack. I also skipped clans because I'm a IS purist and I own about half the heroes. Some just don't interest me.

I hate that term 'whale' it's more a misnomer that has been created for this sort of game. And most analysis I've read on it has not met the qualities of why people choose to put an extreme amount of money into a franchise or title.

Like you I've also heavily supported this title, From the Founders highest package to Top tier everything for each of the mech booster packs. I do so for the love of the franchise less-so than a love of this title. My personal opinion on this title is not quite so glamorous but as long as PGI has the license leased I'll attempt to help support it and hopefully it'll become something great over time. But patience only goes so far.

Apnu, on 11 February 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

I'm never going to throw a tantrum like some and demand a product designed to my random and fevered specifications. That's just irrational hysterics. Life's better for me, when I'm rational and mellow, so I choose not to get worked up by PGI's design decisions if I disagree with them (and I do on the topic of 10v12, sharply). But I'm not going to give a stink about it.

There's a lot of fan entitlement going on around here. Players think because they play, they're entitled to something from PGI. They aren't. They are simply one mewling kitten in a box of kittens and it all sounds like line noise to PGI. PGI doesn't owe us anything. They make a product, we have the option to buy it or not, if we don't like what we bought, that's on us. Its like buying a candy bar and not liking it, then going back to the candy maker and harassing them about something that didn't taste good to one person. The simplest solution is to throw the candy bar in the trash and get on with their lives.

I think you're right that a lot of folks throw tantrums when they don't see the things they like. Personally I've tried to offer subjective feedback supported with evidence captured within the title as to the issues I see. I've met a lot of resistance through many different posts to the feedback provided from differing viewpoints that don't agree with the assessments I've provided. I think to some degree they need the tantrum backlash, but there is a greater need for supportive feedback being provided.

Take this with that I work in software, and with the products I've worked on I can say we watch the community closely and pay attention to criticisms. Responses though always have very specific channels they need to go through.

And while correlating this product to a physical object, we're not in that age anymore. This is true for games moreso than other industries as you see entire games getting retooled down to core mechanics and the environment the player interacts with, World of Warcraft has done some of the larger overhauls recently as an example. But even so in 2002 Everquest redid its entire graphics system within the same engine. Including the ability to selectively use higher quality models/textures depending on the users hardware configuration. That's an exceptionally large overhaul and adding systems and support systems to allow that to occur.

So this sort of expectation is seen as part of the precedent set by the industry to have the capability to make those large sweeping changes.

Apnu, on 11 February 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

But no... not gamers. Not on the Internet. Everything has to be the most of something. The most epically awesome mech mashing mayhem with unicorns crapping rainbows, or the worst game ever that scars them forever and they can only exercise that demon by giving devs cancer. Seriously, that's how players are.

In short this is still true over 10 years later:

This rule is fairly true. Its tough to find communities that actually don't have an abundance of vulgar malcontents.

Apnu, on 11 February 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

What's strange to me is we now live in an era of perpetual development and customer feedback influencing that endless development cycle. At first I thought that was a novelty for small shops, but now that Microsoft is doing it for Win10, this must be the new normal. Given the hysterics of people on the Internet this blows my mind any organization would do this, but here we are.

I'd like to point at Adobe, being the first big company, doing this first by turning their art and development tools software into a subscription service and doing effectively weekly updates. This is intended to make it so they have a higher level of support for their user base and quickly respond to their 'needs' despite a lot of it really not being a requirement to have functionality.

[Apnu]

Mirkk Defwode, on 12 February 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

I hate that term 'whale' it's more a misnomer that has been created for this sort of game. And most analysis I've read on it has not met the qualities of why people choose to put an extreme amount of money into a franchise or title.

Like you I've also heavily supported this title, From the Founders highest package to Top tier everything for each of the mech booster packs. I do so for the love of the franchise less-so than a love of this title. My personal opinion on this title is not quite so glamorous but as long as PGI has the license leased I'll attempt to help support it and hopefully it'll become something great over time. But patience only goes so far.



I think you're right that a lot of folks throw tantrums when they don't see the things they like. Personally I've tried to offer subjective feedback supported with evidence captured within the title as to the issues I see. I've met a lot of resistance through many different posts to the feedback provided from differing viewpoints that don't agree with the assessments I've provided. I think to some degree they need the tantrum backlash, but there is a greater need for supportive feedback being provided.

Take this with that I work in software, and with the products I've worked on I can say we watch the community closely and pay attention to criticisms. Responses though always have very specific channels they need to go through.

And while correlating this product to a physical object, we're not in that age anymore. This is true for games moreso than other industries as you see entire games getting retooled down to core mechanics and the environment the player interacts with, World of Warcraft has done some of the larger overhauls recently as an example. But even so in 2002 Everquest redid its entire graphics system within the same engine. Including the ability to selectively use higher quality models/textures depending on the users hardware configuration. That's an exceptionally large overhaul and adding systems and support systems to allow that to occur.

So this sort of expectation is seen as part of the precedent set by the industry to have the capability to make those large sweeping changes.



This rule is fairly true. Its tough to find communities that actually don't have an abundance of vulgar malcontents.



I'd like to point at Adobe, being the first big company, doing this first by turning their art and development tools software into a subscription service and doing effectively weekly updates. This is intended to make it so they have a higher level of support for their user base and quickly respond to their 'needs' despite a lot of it really not being a requirement to have functionality.

Well said.

I dislike 'whale' also. It carries a negative connotation, which is never helpful. However I've also learned in my four decades, when people label you with an insult we can either take it and be cowed, or co-opt the term and make it ours. African Americans have done this with 'ni**er' (not going to type it out), Geeks and Nerds have done this with 'geek' and 'nerd'

So when I use the term I'm taking it back from the mewling bullies trying to insult us.

And what insult is it to make fun of the people who keep the game free for everybody else? These jerks get to play the game for cheap or free because of us. If anything they should be thanking us.... but GIFT. *sigh*