81 replies to this topic

[Jeremiah Battleborn]

IceFire, on 15 February 2015 - 04:41 AM, said:

IS players need to do only one thing.
Learn how to play to the strength of IS mechs and abuse the weakness of Clan mechs.

bobF, on 14 February 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

People will still argue all the same things, but sadly gloss over the most salient fact: that once certain IS mechs are built out properly with their relevant quirks, they are more than a match for any Clan pilot.

We wouldn't be here if we had less than a reasonable doubt about gameplay. "Git gud" isn't what I would call a feasible answer to this thread's dilemma. As Naduk has mentioned, you don't nerf an entire genre of mechs 3x in a row unless they are very powerful. The loyalists for IS houses have been playing MW games for a very long time, and IS and Clans regularly trade members, so this isn't about skill.

So far as solutions go: adding quirks to IS mechs does make them stronger, if less variable. There is another concern that clan mechs are just better at the current CW objectives. Timberwolves and Stormcrows can steamroll through objectives if they don't wish to stick around and murder.

[bobF]

And IS lights dont rush in and destroy generators in less than 3 mins, even after the 3 generator mechanic was added?

It has a lot to do with player skill. I can't tell you how many times I've targeted both IS AND Clan pilots and saw some funky, completely ineffective build.

You want to cite lack of variety? Pretend that all you had to use were like 4 chassis, each with like 2 viable min/max builds, because that's what playing with Clan tech is like.

Oh, you don't like min/maxing and wish there was more variety, that didn't gimp yourself in one form or another? So do I. Welcome to like every PvP game ever developed.

Even accounting for PGI's lack of creativity and resources, as it currently stands, the min/maxed IS builds are as viable as the min/maxed Clan builds. Skilled pilots use either and continue to wreck face. Just ask any merc unit of note about it.

Edited by bobF, 15 February 2015 - 05:14 PM.

[Hillslam]

Lol at the clan entitlement kids still trying to convince others to be their IS cannon fodder huckleberries. It ain't working, and your mountains of voodoo logic water-muddying blather isn't going to change that.

Enjoy your cruise on the Titanic. You only brought it on yourselves.

The clans were a game killing bad idea in the beginning, then they were a bad idea in the 90s, and they were a bad idea today. Don't mind me, I'm laughing at you from the comfort of my Lakon type 9.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

AEgg, on 08 February 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

Your post would make sense, except that clan mechs as a whole are not more expensive.

Clan lights are simply cheaper than IS lights. Often significantly, because you don't need to buy a huge 300XL to go with every mech.

Every IS mech costs 1.5 million more for DHS, another 700k or so more for Endo, and then at least another two million above that for an engine. That makes the difference in cost between IS and clan mechs much, much lower, to the point of IS mechs costing more for anything that uses an XL. Anything without an XL is likely to be cheaper on the IS side.

You don't need to buy an XL engine for each IS light mech.

And you often get nice sized XL engines if you're smart with the mechs that you purchase (unlike Clan engines IS ones are swappable)

Clan mechs cost more. I know people try to normalize it but you can do and get away with a lot more in the IS world that you can't with "fixed upgrades"

[S204STi]

Artgathan, on 09 February 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

Interesting points from the OP. Economic concerns certainly play a role.

Another vastly understated point is the role of large groups in organized play, and the mechanics of the Clan border. Consider: large groups are typically those that will be launching attacks on planets - they are the initiators. This causes a 'call to arms' to be issued across the whole of the IS playerbase which results in PUGs from every IS faction in the game being summoned to defend a planet against an organized Clan team. I'm not trying to suggest there should be some kind of queue system to prevent this - I'm simply saying that the Call to Arms function sort of acts as a bell that summons a flock of sheep to a pack of wolves.

I have to agree with this... I came back to the game recently to explore CW, and found that any and all pug v clam battle was basically going to end badly for me. I have since started to work with organized groups, but there is still a strong Clan advantage, especially in terms of long-range sniping and general tankiness of their machines.

[Atreides76]

Lily from animove, on 09 February 2015 - 04:26 AM, said:

you don't udnertsand because you are just bad and wrong.

You are a stupid little kid.

And you come across as an edgy 16 yr old. Stay edgy !

[Crockdaddy]

Lily from animove, on 09 February 2015 - 04:26 AM, said:

you don't udnertsand because you are just bad and wrong.

Is medium laser is more heat efficient, heta is a limited ressource.

You are a stupid little kid thinking in clan/is patterns, clans are not OP, its the TBR and SCR, give the IS the exact same mech by shape and gemometry and hardpoints. And together with the cooler running IS lasrs, you will really experience what Op means. You have nothing beter to do than blaming PGI for everything thats wrong while you don't even try to understand the real mechanics. After all this time you sill claim those nonsense facts for the "clanners" becaue you are just not able to lern and improve yourself. Buy a console and paly those awesome graphics super epic linear no brain games please.

The real issue is, IS gamers never tried to actually counter clanners correctly, they tried to play the old IS vs IS style and failed. Remember the times when poptarting was such a thing and sniperbattles. yes tbr and scr are kinda OP emchs, but not because they are clan, its because of the way they are. Imagine you would have to face an IS AC 20 SCR shaped and speed mech. WOAH i promise you, you would cry rivers about it.

Vassago makes great salient points based on fact and experience. He is generally spot on in his assessments. The game needs improvements and that is very clear for a larger release into Steam. I am fairly sure though PGI has acknowledged much of this already.

For the record, I often dislike Vassago .. so my agreement with him is always reluctant. You spend part of your post attacking him and not his position, ergo you fail.

[Davegt27]

in the month of Nov my TW had like 15 Top damage in that month
and I suck pretty bad as a pilot
are the clans over powered --- no--- they are just powered
and don't let anyone tell you otherwise

[fisher]

Birds fly, fish swim, and clanners try desperately to defend their mech advantages.

But it's ok - if we only knew how hard the clan mechs were to play, we'd understand.

[Surn]

I have rank 5 in SJ and CGB, but left to play IS for a challenge. I use my clan mechs when I need to make cbills and then invest those cbills in my IS mechs.

Edited by MechregSurn, 18 February 2015 - 03:19 AM.

[Gyrok]

The True Space Pope, on 09 February 2015 - 05:58 AM, said:

The Space Pope thinks that most good players (or really all players) simply will gravitate towards whatever is easiest to do well with.

Is there a psychological component?

Sure, but there is a reason good players do very well in many clan mechs and it isn't primarily because they "think" it is better.

Honestly, while my highest KDR mech chassis is a clan chassis, I have more IS chassis with relatively high KDRs than I do Clans.

Why?

Let us analyze this, shall we?

Best mech per weight class:

20T: Locust
25T: Commando
30T: Spider
35T: Firestarter/Raven (not even a contest)
40T: Cicada
45T: Vindicator
50T: Centurion or Hunchback
55T: SCR
60T: Toss up...MDD or Dragon
65T: Thunderbolt (possibly HBR, but HBR is less firepower)
70T: Cataphract
75T: TW
80T: Victor
85T: Stalker
90T: Highlander
95T: Banshee
100T: King Crab

Now...who is really OP?

EDIT: You have 2 toss ups, 2 clear winners for clans, and everything else is SIGNIFICANTLY worse than what the IS brings to the table at that weight class.

So...can you please be objective and realize clans are not OP???

#kwitcherbitchin

Edited by Gyrok, 18 February 2015 - 07:06 AM.

[bobF]

Good lord, I can't believe I liked a gyrok post. Also, Steiner pilots should get competent at the game before commenting on balance.

[HARDKOR]

I'm excited to get back to the IS to fight clanners. Both sides are good, but clan is more boring due to all my mechs having same weapons on them.

[Necromantion]

Look after playing both sides of CW and literally half the time as IS and half the time as Clan I really fail to see IS or Clans with one superior to the other.

Each faction has its advantages through weapon and chassis differences.

The prime issue with both faction is the lack of representation of 80% of the mech chassis that are not as desirable due to drop tonnage restraints and undesirable builds/hardpoints

[HARDKOR]

Maybe the new quirks and mechs will open some variety up. Tbolt nerf and wubverine weapon change makes me wonder if the 3 LL panther > 3 LL wolverine, due to tonnage and stuff...

[Mordin Ashe]

Last batch of quirks pushed IS meta in CW into LL/ERLL/LPL meta, effectively making several IS drop decks way more powerful than what most Clan Mechs can ever hope for. Playing against any ever slightly reasonable IS oponent kills any Clanner. No Clan Mech can tank as much damage as Stalker or King Crab, no Clan Mech can do so much damage as recently quirked IS heavies and assaults (well, DW can but it lacks too much mobility behind these agents of doom).

Clans OP is old news, like mid last year. Since then? Nah, not a single bit.

[Necromantion]

I think until PGI realizes that range quirks for certain weapons like the LBX's and SRMS are stupid and revamps them to affect the spread at ranges perhaps that we are still going to see a lot of these being unused for the most part at least as far as modules and even quirks at times.

Also Community Warfare encourages non ammunition based loadouts because well... you never run out of ammo. Running out of ammo for anything can result in an awful desyncing with your team needing to push then you being like, oh guys i gotta get a new mech.

Mordin Ashe, on 18 February 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Well said, I mean they are strong for sure, but not as OP as many people make them out to be. Certain things like high mounted torso/arm weapons can be and advantage, and mobility for sure but on the flipside a lot of the quirks have resulted in some extreeeeeeeeeeeemely strong IS mechs.

[HARDKOR]

Raven 3L, Panther Z, Stalker 4 N, Misery? Sounds like 3 large lulz per shot to to me with an ecm thrown in for teamwork and stuff.

[Averen]

Some clan players are certainly hardcore at making up excuses. The superior side should be obvious by looking at the galaxy map. If factual evidence isn't convincing you, then nothing will.

Many IS mechs can keep up well in CW and the quirks indeed allowed for some devastating builds, but that still won't alleviate the simple reality of clans having the strongest and most weight efficient mechs in the game. Stormcrow and Timberwolf, and, with minor issues, Hellbringer and Direwolf. The limited mechpool most clanner use is telling.
Maybe IS-Mechs are stronger at certain ranges and situations, but clan-mechs have more potential to direct the combat. The worth of the combination of superior mobility and range should go without words.

Edited by Averen, 18 February 2015 - 10:37 AM.

[Mordin Ashe]

Averen, on 18 February 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

Some clan players are certainly hardcore at making up excuses. The superior side should be obvious by looking at the galaxy map. If factual evidence isn't convincing you, then nothing will.

Many IS mechs can keep up well in CW and the quirks indeed allowed for some devastating builds, but that still won't alleviate the simple reality of clans having the strongest and most weight efficient mechs in the game. Stormcrow and Timberwolf, and, with minor issues, Hellbringer and Direwolf. The limited mechpool most clanner use is telling.
Maybe IS-Mechs are stronger at certain ranges and situations, but clan-mechs have more potential to direct the combat. The worth of the combination of superior mobility and range should go without words.

Bull***t. I feel sorry for you if you really think this.
Clan Mechs have more potential? How? Reason or a proof for that? IS Mechs can keepfiring almost without stops, Clans can't fire more than three times without taking a break for cooling down. Yes, Clans can do 54-56 non-pinpoint alpha twice, but IS can perform 40-45 pts alpha for a minute without cooling down. Clans have some splat factor, nothing else. We don't have speed as well because every IS Mech can take large XL, load up medium lasers and go do laser show.

The limited Mech pool is made by most of Clan mechpool being utter sh*t, no other way around it. People stick with working Mechs and it just so happens that we only have 4 - any surprise you see those 4 in CW most? I also see IS taking Stalkers and Thunderbolts 80% of the time... should I call for nerfs on these?

Man, your reasoning is politician-style. Declarations without proof, without backing, without data, without grain of truths in them. Get some facts.