146 replies to this topic

[ooClaymoreoo]

Actually guys the answer to all the issues is pretty simple, just address it from a military view point. Ill used the Fed suns as an example but this would work just as well for merc units.

Within the cannon for the fed sons you have 50+ regiments or so that have been mentioned in various sources. Actual cannon names can be found in fed sons source books or on Sarna net and various mentions in the books. You want to play as the FED SUNs then fine you pick one of those named regiments and away you go.. If the name you want is picked then you could pick another or Join the group that have that name and become there second or third battalion. There's no rule about how many battalions a Regiment can have so you can keep making as many as you like. Or you could Make up a new regiment, but make it so it fits with the existing named units.

The Merc's can work the same way, if you look at cannon sources Wolfs dragoons had 5 regiments and several independent Battalions, there were 2 regiments of kell hounds, 5 named Northwind highlander regiments. The options are endless.

And the devs well there the First prince or the Captain-General or his Cestral Wisdom the Chancellor[color="#000000"].[/color]

The only thing i would say to those people who want there own identity is remember your playing in a universe that people spent many years creating and major parts of the life and souls are ingrained in the Books, history and stories. Don't dishonour there hard work Or the universe they allow us to play in buy coming up with stuff that destroys the feel of the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Nice post, but I would agree to the choice that the devs have made. I say, make your own unit, make your own legend.

[Riin Suul]

anyone who wants to play as a canon unit should be forced to be at specific battles, and should have to make sure that the battles are won/lost according to canon.

any takers still?
didn't think so.

[wanderer]

Point being that people riding someone else's IP around without permission should be politely told not to, and have their name edited to something from My Little Pony.

Because Hasbro's legal department is a fierce **** and will do all of Pirahna's work for them shortly afterwards.

-Rainbow "Wanderer" Dash (No, no, Mr. Lawyer, not in the faaaace!)

[Fl3tcher]

Well, I haven't found the statement on canon names that OP is talking about, but I did find this thread . . .

http://mwomercs.com/...non%20%20naming

I'll keep looking, unless someone can post a link maybe?

[Targetloc]

Why are people so butt-hurt over ponies? I'd rather play with people who don't take themselves too seriously than deal with 'fans' who are going to argue for 20 pages over whether someone's canon unit did something OOC according to a flavour footnote in a TRO.

[Hexenhammer]

This debate reminds me of playing EQand seeing Legolas, Legolos, Legitalos, Drizzit, Drizzzzit, Dryzzzzt, etc.
I'm happy with canon units being reserved and after reading some of the OP's quotes from Piranha, I look forward to what Piranha has planned for canon units like Black Widow Company or Eridani Light Horse.

[RAM]

Wraeththix Constantine, on 29 June 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

All they've said so far is that you're not allowed to create players with known names, and you can't create a merc group with it.

Except one need only look around these forums to see that they are permitting canonical names - not to mention some have shown up in the leaked footage. If they are relenting or failing to enforce one rule who is to say they will not do the same for the other?

BFalcon, on 29 June 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

I could lay claim to the Jaime Wolf name and the Wolf's Dragoons unit name and nobody has more of a claim to it than I do (or less). Just because you use a name in a previous game has no relevance to this game.

False and false. Even ignoring the hierarchy of the games, there are established canon Units that are owned by individuals - should they not be allowed to play their own Units?

FactorlanP, on 29 June 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

Copyright issues trump all of your reasons to allow it. The last thing we want is for MWO to get shut down because lawyers get involved.

I am also of the opinion that allowing players to corrupt key elements of canon is a bad idea. It goes without saying that players will abuse the canon unit names for their own ends.

On a similar note, I think that they need to filter out all of the canon character names also. It's bad enough that we have 1000 various Steiners and Kerenskys floating around on the BBS... Just my opinion.

Being an official Battletech product license/copyright is really not an issue.

The entire game will be non-canonical, so no worries of corruption there. It is also mere supposition that canon units would be abused.

Agreed... given their naming conventions, some enforcement would be nice.

Endless Ike, on 29 June 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

Nobody wants to see a Gray Death Legion that's a bunch of newbs

Except the Legion were a bunch of newbs at a number of different times...

Riin Suul, on 29 June 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

anyone who wants to play as a canon unit should be forced to be at specific battles, and should have to make sure that the battles are won/lost according to canon.

any takers still?

didn't think so.

Actually that is one of the potential draws of a canon Unit: participation in canon actions/battles/events - you would be wise to not dismiss it so casually.

Ultimately regardless of the actual outcome does it not seem strange that the regular House Units are being treated differently than Merc Units? Far above my paygrade in any event.

Cheers!


RAM
ELH

[Ozric]

This thread really suprised me. I was expecting another 'gimme, gimme' post and an OP that hadn't bothered to think it through first, but it wasn't and you did. And you have some very good ideas. I'd totally writen off the idea of cannon units, and it hadn't bothered me at all, but now I think they might actually be able to make it work.

[Iron Horse]

This just reinforces to me that the devs are being needlessly close-to-their-chest with game info recently. Since we're going back in time, I doubt there's any plot spoiler-ish/esque? reasons for them to be doing so.
Until we know what the game is like, its a bit useless to speculate over these types of things, but I think it is important to show the devs how important some of these things are to some of us older, wizened mechjocks.

Personally, I think this WOULD add to immersion, which is something I hope the devs emphasize in the design. So far we've seen really great (IMHO) attention to detail and canon, but I feel like we've been kind of in the dark since the closed beta announcement.

I would also like to see some kind of faction objective/bonuses that change on a daily basis and are faction-specific, so it changes the gameplay a bit each day. For example, Kuritans get a bonus for attacking along a specific sector's front, or Capellans get a bonus for legging 'mechs that day, etc. (obviously based on existing gameplay mechanics and tactics, but just to give you an idea).

As far as picking out canon units, this was a huge bummer for me the first time I read it too. Since I really don't have any affinity for one group over another, I would just like to see all of the available units at-a-glance and be able to choose one I'm familiar with (like ELH, for example). As it stands, I'll just stick with my last known position in a MW3 fan league.

Edited by Iron Horse, 29 June 2012 - 12:52 PM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

So we can have several wolfs dragoons and all their Companies and regiments....

No. It isn't a bad idea to be strict about it.

They want those units to be in game, not run by guys called "Jaemy Woolf" or Clan Jade Falcon merc groups with self proclaimed star colonels.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 29 June 2012 - 01:01 PM.

[Shredhead]

No, please, not this again... nobody should be able to lead canon units.
1 Nobody has the right to do it, may they claim a 20 year old heritage of their little nerd unions or not.
2 Nobody will be able to claim House Units, too. If you'd read Russ' posts about it, you'd know. People are able to join them, but first they have to earn their place, and then they will never be able to control said units. It will more be about skins and postings, not more.
@RAM: Russ never said they permit canonical names. At least we'll have something to laugh about.

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False and false. Even ignoring the hierarchy of the games, there are established canon Units that are owned by individuals - should they not be allowed to play their own Units?

What are you talking about? --> (this?) Even if some of the old authors show up and claim their canonical units (I know some have written in unit names of their own or friend's TT mercenary units), they should not be allowed to lead them. They could become part of PGI, maybe, and then do it, according to canon and PGI guidance.

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The entire game will be non-canonical, so no worries of corruption there. It is also mere supposition that canon units would be abused.

You're wrong here, the game will adhere strictly to canon, as all Devs have stated several times nearly everywhere this came up.

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Ultimately regardless of the actual outcome does it not seem strange that the regular House Units are being treated differently than Merc Units? Far above my paygrade in any event.

As I stated earlier in this post, they won't.

Anyway, what's so frigging difficult about making your own name and legend with a unit (and name) that nobody will fight over?

Edited by Shredhead, 29 June 2012 - 01:08 PM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Riin Suul, on 29 June 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

anyone who wants to play as a canon unit should be forced to be at specific battles, and should have to make sure that the battles are won/lost according to canon.

any takers still?
didn't think so.

This is a half baked infantile defense.

I'm sure they have plenty of ideas in place where having control of the Canon units benefits the game itself and not a few self entitled scrubs who want the throne of canon units to themselves and their friends.

I can think of a dozen store options or in game mechanics that need you gaining rank/whatever with those units to unlock their use.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Okay firstly, I agree 100% with the developers choice to refuse players the ability to name themselves or units after established canon/lore units. Here is why: It comes down to Copy Right Protection of Intellectual Property and the potential down the line for someone to get in a snit about it. While, I honestly do not see this being much of a problem as the current copy right holders <far as I know> of the intellectual property work with/for PGI/IGP and according to a discussion I had with Paul on this, it most likely will not be a problem for the moment. They must, as a business take steps to abide by current laws and this is just a way to do just that. Also, to those who wish to fight for a canon/lore merc unit like say: The Kell Hounds, this is cool, but, wait to see if the devs place this unit under Dev control and have it as a faction. Otherwise, show some creativity and forge your own legend! If what I have read is true, then, this game may actually impact lesser known aspects of actual Battle Tech Lore, and would it not be more awesome to say: YES! My unit did that, and we are now a legendary unit, since we are officially mentioned in canon and lore? Why hide in the shadows when you can stand in the spot light?

[Tetatae Squawkins]

I think letting everyone who played SWTOR name themselves Chewbacca Solo Skywalker would have worked out great.

Edited by crabcakes66, 29 June 2012 - 01:22 PM.

[Mrllamaface]

Have to say I agree with the Devs (no Waco Rangers for me *sarcasim*). I do think outside of cannon units people should be able to come up with about any unit name they and thier friends like.

[macmerritt]

First off, wow, three pages of replies in 4 hours while napping was unexpected.

Secondly thank you all for your responses, except the meme posters but hey to each thier own.

Thirdly, I do not hate Bronies, Ponyboys, etc. What I dislike is the rise in this sub-culture, but again to each their own.


I merely wanted to see everyone elses opinions on this subject and try to keep it as constructive as possible. I stated in my arguement and agree that no one person or group other than the original game designers and the purchasers of the IP have any rights to these names. What I would like to see is something along the lines of sub-units for these famous units or to be sponsored by them in a style similar to MW4:Mercs.

I have alot of love for this world and many of the units in it and would just like to see them in game. I agree that many of the units would be hurt by a horde of silly "newbs" or "l33t" players. But then again if these guys start to play with people that take the game and history seriously it might make a few of them situp and act like responsible human beings.

I am tired of every game, organization, event, or law being brought down to a level to appease the lowest common denominator instead of making people rise above and improve themselves. By constantly giving in to these people we only lower and debase ourselves for tolerating this type of behavior instead of taking it upon ourselves to help those around us improve and grow.

Again this is all just my opinion so take it for what it is, mine. I do not wish to force my views upon others but Bryan did state that he and the other Devs might re-visit this standpoint if further feedback warranted it. I only want to get an open dialouge going in hopes of coming to a solution that will make the majority happy without damaging the IP.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I think there is honor and value in creating and showing pride in your OWN unit. I think, and I KNOW I will get flamed at for this, but, Willingly hiding in the shadows of a famous unit is a little like being a stalker, no honor or dignity in it. We are all going to be mechwarriors again, why not show originality and pride in yourself, your friends, and the universe and make a name for yourself? Forge the path, not ride the coattails of the ones before you.

[Slapshot]

I don't understand how an argument could be made that allowing players to control a canon faction would distort the storyline. Just think of all the goofy names people are going to give their units, that alone is going to carpet bomb battletech canon anyway.

Edited by Slapshot, 29 June 2012 - 02:35 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Slapshot, lets take a look at this. You have PlayerABCDEFG and they make a guild called: Com Guards for example. This player invites players to the guild, and then they go about the business of playing. But, they are not following the canon in how/when/where and with what they engage. This harms canon, and to the purists is sacrilegious and would drive a huge portion of players away from the game, and would reduce the bottom line revenue of the game from microtransactions and could end the games existence prematurely. It is safer and easier to prevent this from the start. as a benefit, it promotes creativity and pride in what you are doing, especially if you can leave your mark on the lore.