85 replies to this topic

[mogs01gt]

Clint Steel, on 09 February 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

Why so defensive against making the less effective mechs (I'm not even talking the firestarters here) a little more survivable?

Im not defensive, Im aggressive.

Lights are already bloated enough from MWO designed perks to make them effective in combat. The bottom line, lights were never designed to be combat mechs and shouldnt benefit from lag shields and hit registration plus have the ability to dish out decent DPS. Since MWO lacks real game modes that allow lights to shine, this will always be an issue.

Mercules, on 10 February 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

No they don't. If you are hitting light IS mechs with LRMs(heck if you are hitting Assault mechs with LRMS) then you are dealing with bad pilots. If you are being hit by LRMs in a Light mech then you ARE the bad pilot.

LMAO!! What a load of BS! So you are essentially saying that there are no good pilots that use missile base mechs....yeah ok.

Edited by mogs01gt, 10 February 2015 - 07:01 AM.

[Ovion]

Clint Steel, on 09 February 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

So, LRMs kill lights (particularly the Locust) that aren't fortunate enough to have ECM, with little skill needed to aim and hit, which is really the only armor a light has.

I'd like to suggest that the size of the Mech effect and the speed effect Lock on speed and the tracking capability of LRMs and SSRMs.

Even if it only a token amount by default, this would mean that for lights that are particularly susceptible to LRMs could be easily quirked to give a lower "signature" making them harder to get locked on to and harder to get hit by the LRMs/SSRMs.

Are you running your Locusts stock?
Because with an XL 190, I've had no problems with LRMs in ages, throw in radar dep and your basically invisible.
You need to learn to run a light mech, how to dodge and Jink, etc. The Locust is also very unforgiving of mistakes.
For Locust help, go check out the Underrated Locust thread, or even pm me, we're happy to help.

Additionally, if you're moving properly in a light, it's already harder to lock and hit, especially with large launchers.

LtWarhound, on 09 February 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

*facepalm* Don't tell me, you are a Locust pilot that likes to run around in the open, right?

Tell you what. Go play a mech with an LRM, and try to hit lights that aren't clueless. Watch the missiles miss, miss, and on occasion, miss. Speed alone gives them a shield against LRMs unmatched by armor or AMS. Speed, hard cover, radar deprivation, AMS, small size making it easy to break LOS. And you want to give them more advantages?

Stupid lights, sure, slaughter them with the LRM all day long. But you could kill those same mechs with a rolled up newspaper.

I'm a crazy Locusts pilot who runs in the open, I'm just good at it

I also make sure it's behind the enemy team and that I'm going 170.

Mcchuggernaut, on 09 February 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

Seriously? If you run around in the open, expect to get pegged. Especially in a locust, the most easy to hit of all lights! Your already fast, have AMS or even ECM if you have the Pirate's Bane, a small target, and able to get places most bigger mechs can't. You expect to be unhittable, too? I rarely say this, but you are definitely Locusting all wrong:

The Locust is the easiest of the light mechs to hit, hands down. It's a fat blob with legs that isn't as fast as the other lights, but its heavier. That allows slightly larger weapons. Use that. Find a bit of cover, pop out and tag the enemy with lasers and duck back in to cover, or spot for your team's missile boats, or drop a UAV for your team. THAT'S how to be effective in a locust. I have been picked apart in assault mechs by Locust pilots who pop out, fry you a bit with lasers, then run off only to pop out and zap you again when you least expect it. It's very effective, and distracts people from firing at your teammates. That being said, I can't even count how many times a Locust has gotten too brave running around in front of me in the open and I one-shotted him with my gauss boat. Do what your mech is good at, quit trying to use a damn Locust like a brawler, and you won't get missiled to death any more.

I... What?

Are you thinking of Ravens?
There's not a lot there that makes sense.

[Kalimaster]

I enjoy the locust, and for me, LRM's are not a problem. Although one of these has ECM, LRM's are not a problem. Cover, make use of other Mechs that have ECM, work with a bigger Mech, speed. These are factors. Although one of my Locusts is an LRM Mech, it is how you use a Light Mech, especially the locust that makes things work. Once you break out of the Basic efficiency slots, the Locust can be a good Mech and can harass the opposition nicely. I've gotten quite a number of kills with a Locust, and more assists than I can remember, so don't write this Mech off just because of a Missile chuck-er.

[Clint Steel]

So much LRM love here

Half the people say its worthless to target lights with LRMs in the first place, if thats the case why would a small buff hurt, if you can't hit them anyway?

Radar Dep is negated by Advanced Target Decay, so though it helps its not perfect. AMS helps a very small amount, but really cuts into the damage potential since every ton counts on such a small mech, and often you'll play many matches where LRMs aren't a threat (Bad LRM Boats, or just no lrms at all) so its wasted tonnage.

For those who question my build/skill I do have my Locust upgraded, and Elited with the 190XL in it. I'm sure I could use "Moar SKILLZ" but I'm not bad either. I've had many matches breaking 600 damage pre quirk, which if you haven't tried is a bit of a feat with a Locust. Now I do feel a little more powerful after the quirks, but still just as fragile. I'm fine with being one shot by Mech that has to lead my super fast zig zaging Mech, I just feel its too easy to throw LRMs out and hit a mech that you may or may not even see, when that hit could completely wipe them out.

For those that say take cover: What happens if your team is brawling around the caldera on Caustic and the enemy pops a UAV, since they are about 300m away and there is pretty much no cover, except maybe your teammates? LRMs could come from several angles so it can be difficult to even decide which way to dodge. If you were fighting and maybe got hit a little already a good volley of LRMs is all it takes to put you down.

Lights might not have been designed for combat in table top, but we are playing a FPS game, that rewards you based on damage and kills. In fact 2 games modes are strictly about killing the enemy, well Assault you could kill the base, but a brawling Locust might as well run out of bounds, as the turrets will tear his legs of in a second. Don't you feel that all Mechs should be balanced for the game that they are in? As it is, why take a suboptimal-light when you could have a Firestarter or an ECM Raven?

As far as "Lag Shield" goes, I've only seen one Locust benefit from this and it was by someone with an awful ping, mostly this is a Spider, and maybe a Firestarter thing, plus their jump jets and better hitboxes help too. I "unfortunately" have a ping that sits around 20-30 so no magic network protection for me. Not that it really matters in a LRM discussion though since they are not affected by lag the same way, hence why everyone uses the SSRM boats to kill the light rushes in CW.

Honestly, I would love to run into you guys that run non-ecm lights with my LRM boat and see how things work out (particularly on the LRM friendly Maps). Maybe there is something I'm missing, but from my experience If I don't straight out kill the light I'm LRMing, I am at least making them so scared to come out that they become ineffective. The smart ones will try and sneak behind the team and find a way at me, but I usually stay in the middle of the pack, so if my team is any good they can keep the lights off, if they get too close.

[InRev]

mogs01gt, on 10 February 2015 - 06:32 AM, said:

Lights are already bloated enough from MWO designed perks to make them effective in combat. The bottom line, lights were never designed to be combat mechs *snip*

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hollander

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jenner

http://www.sarna.net...mer_(BattleMech)

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/UrbanMech

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Adder_(Puma)

Quick list off the top of my head.

Weight class does not dictate role. Never has, never will. Furthermore, take a look at the queue counter when dropping into a pub match. I can promise you that Lights will have the smallest percentage of mechs in-game, possibly even single digits.

Yes, a handful of us can really be terrifying in our light mechs, but the majority of players are not. There is a good reason Light mechs are the least played of the weight-classes: most of them are just dead weight.

I still fear no LRMs though At least . . . while I still have both legs . . .

[Mercules]

Clint Steel, on 10 February 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

For those who question my build/skill...

There is no questioning, if you are getting hit by LRMs in a Locust on a regular basis then...

You = Bad

[Clint Steel]

Mercules, on 10 February 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

There is no questioning, if you are getting hit by LRMs in a Locust on a regular basis then...

You = Bad

I think there is a misunderstanding here, I don't get killed constantly by LRMs, just that when they hit a light mech like the Locust they pretty much destroy it in a volley or two, which I think is too deadly for something that takes no skill to pull off.

Doesn't it make sense that a light would have a smaller signature on radar, and therefore be harder to lock on. I'm not even saying a lot harder just some amount, that could be tweaked, and quirked to balance the Mechs.

[Galenit]

Clint Steel, on 10 February 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

I think there is a misunderstanding here, I don't get killed constantly by LRMs, just that when they hit a light mech like the Locust they pretty much destroy it in a volley or two, which I think is too deadly for something that takes no skill to pull off.

Doesn't it make sense that a light would have a smaller signature on radar, and therefore be harder to lock on. I'm not even saying a lot harder just some amount, that could be tweaked, and quirked to balance the Mechs.

Clan streakboats kill a light in 1 or 2 salvos too.
But you only talk about lrms ...

And there is a module that reduces your signatur,
if you use it, the enemy will lose the lock a lot faster.

Edited by Galenit, 11 February 2015 - 05:33 AM.

[Mercules]

Clint Steel, on 10 February 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

I think there is a misunderstanding here, I don't get killed constantly by LRMs, just that when they hit a light mech like the Locust they pretty much destroy it in a volley or two, which I think is too deadly for something that takes no skill to pull off.

Doesn't it make sense that a light would have a smaller signature on radar, and therefore be harder to lock on. I'm not even saying a lot harder just some amount, that could be tweaked, and quirked to balance the Mechs.

Wait a second....

If a Light mech which has very little armor but speed to compensate actually gets hit, it gets crippled?

[Insects]

Clint Steel, on 10 February 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

just that when they hit a light mech like the Locust they pretty much destroy it in a volley or two, which I think is too deadly for something that takes no skill to pull off.

Everything destroys the Locust in a few shots.
It is supposed to be "hard mode" so you can lol at whoever you beat in it. No need to take it out unless seeking the satisfaction of playing in a tricky mech.

Look at the skill this way: How did the LRM get lock on you? Another light spotting or UAV or NARC?
Give skill credit to the light for taking you down with a form of artillery strike perhaps?

[Clint Steel]

Galenit, on 11 February 2015 - 05:32 AM, said:

Clan streakboats kill a light in 1 or 2 salvos too.
But you only talk about lrms ...

And there is a module that reduces your signatur,
if you use it, the enemy will lose the lock a lot faster.

I did include SSRMs in the discussion, but most focus on LRMs and until you get into CW, the SSRMs aren't as popular.

Mercules, on 11 February 2015 - 05:47 AM, said:

Wait a second....

If a Light mech which has very little armor but speed to compensate actually gets hit, it gets crippled?

My point is that the skill involved to get the hit with LRMs isn't comparable to hitting with any other weapon. Speed doesn't adequately protect a Light against them.

[Greenjulius]

Fast IS lights have no problems. I can't remember the last time I was killed by LRMs in a IS light. Not only can you get to cover easily, but LRMs have trouble hitting you when you move at full speed.

But Clan lights, especially the Kitfox and Adder? They don't have that Magic Speed™. They magically lose their legs in seconds if caught with a NARC. For instance, I once ran a kitfox with ECM and Radar Deprivation, assisting the team with the LRM threat on Caustic Valley. A random RVN-3L popped over the caldera and stuck me with a NARC. I knew I was in trouble, so I started running for cover. It didn't help, because within 10 seconds of the "incoming missile" warning, I lost both legs, going from 100% to dead in only a couple salvos.

The problem? The LRMs all hit the kitfox' legs. The point of aim for LRMs needs to be adjusted on the Kitfox. Leg seeking LRMs are not fair.

Edited by Greenjulius, 11 February 2015 - 07:01 AM.

[mogs01gt]

InRev, on 10 February 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hollander

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jenner

http://www.sarna.net...mer_(BattleMech)

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/UrbanMech

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Adder_(Puma)

Quick list off the top of my head.

Weight class does not dictate role. Never has, never will. Furthermore, take a look at the queue counter when dropping into a pub match. I can promise you that Lights will have the smallest percentage of mechs in-game, possibly even single digits.

Yes, a handful of us can really be terrifying in our light mechs, but the majority of players are not. There is a good reason Light mechs are the least played of the weight-classes: most of them are just dead weight.

I still fear no LRMs though At least . . . while I still have both legs . . .

I dont give a **** about canon. Ive read the books, lights mechs were simply there to scout or handle infantry. Any real combat saw them getting wrecked.

PGI gives too much to lights. LRMs should be able to pop lights in a few salvos.

[deadmedo]

So far I have 6 lights and on all of them (maybe not on the raven 3L) I have radar derp module, so its very very rare that I get killed by lrms. Its more probable that I'll appear in front of a dual gauss/ac20 mech and get one shot killed then to die from lrms.

[That Dawg]

Pathos, on 09 February 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

LRMs do not kill lights which are capable of using their speed to find cover. L2P, kthxbye.

I put a hash mark on my Kintaro-18 for every light that assumed that...running out of space

[Mercules]

Clint Steel, on 11 February 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

My point is that the skill involved to get the hit with LRMs isn't comparable to hitting with any other weapon. Speed doesn't adequately protect a Light against them.

Your point is, "Nerf LRMs cause I don't like them." disguised as "Lights need help." One of the things Lights do VERY well is avoid LRMs. LRMs may not need the "Point my mouse at mech and click button." skill to use, but they require other skills. As it stands 75% of the determination as to if you hit with LRMs is in the hands of the target.

So again, if you get hit with LRMs on a frequent enough basis to need an "adjustment" to the mechs you are piloting to help you out you are a BAD PILOT.

[Taemien]

Pathos, on 09 February 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

LRMs do not kill lights which are capable of using their speed to find cover. L2P, kthxbye.

I'm able to pull this off with my Awesome without radar dep. So I'd imagine something running at 3x the speed can do the same.

Clint Steel, on 10 February 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

I think there is a misunderstanding here, I don't get killed constantly by LRMs, just that when they hit a light mech like the Locust they pretty much destroy it in a volley or two, which I think is too deadly for something that takes no skill to pull off.

Doesn't it make sense that a light would have a smaller signature on radar, and therefore be harder to lock on. I'm not even saying a lot harder just some amount, that could be tweaked, and quirked to balance the Mechs.

LRMs take no skill to use? I think you need to relook at this from another angle. Load into game with LRMs. Find a Locust. Target it, and lock on. While doing that, take measure of how many seconds that takes.

Now apply that time to the DPS of a couple of Large Lasers. For the weight of LRMs plus their ammo.. the LRM 20 does half the DPS that ER Large Lasers can do. Also the lasers don't need a lock to hit. This is also assuming LRMs do damage the moment they are fired. Which they don't. They have a flight time. Lowering the time they can deal that damage.

Sure you can nail a locust that's being targeted by someone else. IF they are being targeted by someone else. If they target them for that long, then they can take them out with Lasers before the missiles lock, fire, and arrive.

Edited by Taemien, 11 February 2015 - 07:51 AM.

[Clint Steel]

Taemien, on 11 February 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

I'm able to pull this off with my Awesome without radar dep. So I'd imagine something running at 3x the speed can do the same.



LRMs take no skill to use? I think you need to relook at this from another angle. Load into game with LRMs. Find a Locust. Target it, and lock on. While doing that, take measure of how many seconds that takes.

Now apply that time to the DPS of a couple of Large Lasers. For the weight of LRMs plus their ammo.. the LRM 20 does half the DPS that ER Large Lasers can do. Also the lasers don't need a lock to hit. This is also assuming LRMs do damage the moment they are fired. Which they don't. They have a flight time. Lowering the time they can deal that damage.

Sure you can nail a locust that's being targeted by someone else. IF they are being targeted by someone else. If they target them for that long, then they can take them out with Lasers before the missiles lock, fire, and arrive.

Firstly I DO have a LRM boat, and am quite effective in. I don't have trouble hitting lights, like many others seem to have here, maybe its because I stay with the group and launch lrms when the target is closer than 500m so time to react is less. Also Lights that try and brawl/harass teammates are good targets, since they have something else on their mind. Lights that are snipers and peekers (Like my 3L) of course don't suffer from this.

I would assume your Awesome has some range right? I'm really talking about lights that have to really get close like the Small Pulse Laser Quirked Locust. When you have to close on the enemy that much, getting back to cover isn't really a possibility due to the LRM flight time being so short, and cover usually being to your opponents advantage.

As far as damage Per ton, sure if you can stay alive the whole match constant pecking with the lasers will yield good results, but that light is taking far more risk than the Mech sitting in the middle of the pack LRMing anyone who peeks out, either getting good hits, or at least putting up good suppressing fire. Don't forget with Artemis and using the smaller LRMs (like LRM10s) you get much more pinpoint damage, an alpha of 4 LRM10s does quite a number on a mech.

Mercules, on 11 February 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

Your point is, "Nerf LRMs cause I don't like them." disguised as "Lights need help." One of the things Lights do VERY well is avoid LRMs. LRMs may not need the "Point my mouse at mech and click button." skill to use, but they require other skills. As it stands 75% of the determination as to if you hit with LRMs is in the hands of the target.

So again, if you get hit with LRMs on a frequent enough basis to need an "adjustment" to the mechs you are piloting to help you out you are a BAD PILOT.

You got me on the "I don't like LRMs" bit. In their current state I feel they have a lot of issues. One being that they are too effective at negating certain Mech's such as brawlers, due to their lack of a need to find firing lines, and no need to lead a target to hit. What I would like to see is advantages to Mechs that are suboptimal now, to help make them more competitive. This suggestion is obviously just a tiny change, but I would like many small tweaks rather than giant changes to help bring all Mechs up to the competitive level.

[Bulletsponge0]

When in my locusts, I'll deliberately bait lrm boats into shooting at me...they won't hit me and that is one or two of three or more salvos that they can't use against my teammates

[Ovion]

Man, all this gives me the urge to take my Locusts out tonight, but Evolve arrived yesterday and I never got chance to play it, and because I need to sleep for work, I don't really have time for both tonight .

First world problems ay.

Edited by Ovion, 11 February 2015 - 10:39 AM.