43 replies to this topic

[mekabuser]

Yes, Im a pug.. but then again, so are most of the people Ive been dropping with over thousands of MWO matches including CW.
I want CW to work, and I "think" it can but it needs.. tweaking , serious tweaking.

I can handle putting up the good fight on defense, ill always get MY licks in, but there comes a point, and that point was last night , where you just say why?

I know it happens, I know 12 mans or large groups drop in for defense, but i suspect that unless its a specific planet, for a specific reason, most large group drops go on the offensive / Speculation, but I wouldnt be surprised if Im right/

THat leaves pugs holding the bag most of the time concerning defense. I make the above point because it is MIGHTY rare that I face anything less than at least an 8 man group as a defender. It is equally rare that I have a four man or something cohesive on my defensive team.

I believe I was facing CWi ? last night.. Cutterwolfs clan.. And you know what, they fought us honorably, They didnt cheese us in any way but the loss was inevitable over several different matches. I say this because there is a mighty amount of cheese from some groups, but that is in large part because the very foundation of the game mode is flawed. So even in the best of circumstances, defense is horrid. Normal behaviour from attacking teams is downright repugnant, you know, how humans tend to be with power.

VOIP will help to an extent, but there is a problem with voice and command with pugs.
WHo to listen to?
THe game needs a mechanic, like redit or whatnot where team mates can give rep to commanders who issue good orders, and OR some type of mechanic that qualifies you for command.


its been stated before by others, but small groups and pugs should be lumped together according to your faction etc and thrown in the pot. Attack, defend, whatever, all of it determined by the MM.
Large groups can decide what they want to do..

Sorry rambling post, but right now this game is very square peg round hole and its just really a mess.

believe me , Id rather be playing CW in a ny fashion because I cant stand half the maps in regular rotation, and OR you know I want some content, but its just not there. nor is there any point.

[Krivvan]

One solution would be playing in your own 4-12 player group on defense. There's no need to join a unit for that.

Edited by Krivvan, 12 February 2015 - 08:35 AM.

[Strykewolf]

I know we tend to keep an eye on the defensive planets while running offensive ops whenever possible. If a defense planet starts getting into trouble, we'll shift.

[BourbonFaucet]

Krivvan, on 12 February 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

One solution would be playing in your own 4-12 player group on defense. There's no need to join a unit for that.

This. "Small Groups" are what I was hoping for in CW, and they're surprisingly good. I've seen 3 four mans whip a 12 man before.

[BARBAR0SSA]

No one in Marik runs a public teamspeak server? That's all I do, I don't belong to a unit but -SA-, DERP, 267, -SC- all use strantamechty so if I drop with any of them I pop in there and voila some organization.

Also you CAN get lucky, we had a completely random pug barely beat a 12 man group in the Canyon map, it worked out because no one brought utterly idiotic builds. We had LRMs with lights popping UAVs etc, and people listened when we said DON'T range fight since IS will obliterate us at range, we all sat and waited for the push, didn't worry about losing the 1 generator on outskirts, once they pushed a corner and many of us were lying in wait.

It was a brawl, which worked out well as we would drop a few then force them to drop in a new mech and they could no coordinate a full on light rush to get the gens. We had people in some streak patrols specifically to get any single lights. This ultimately drove them to push in heavies & assaults in to an open space where turrets and the team could unload. During all this we have a streak boat watching the far gate for ECM light trying to sneak in. Dropping the time down to critical point making them have to push out.

It ended at about 42-40 score with omega quite damaged but we won. This was with about 2 players no being on board and getting wiped out along with being lucky guessing their sneak attacks and being able to 2 v 1 mechs at right opportunity.


Now I did finish the match with about 3800 Dmg and a few others in the 2k range, so we may have just played our mechs perfectly all in the right match. (2 PPC Timber, MPL Timber, Streak Adder, SPL+erLL Crow deck)

Short Version; Tactics CAN win a pug vs 12 man on the canyon map with it's limited entry points as long as you play to your teams build strengths and you don't get new players thinking that it's like 12v12 and doing an overheat alpha to try and get a kill is a great idea.

Edited by shad0w4life, 12 February 2015 - 09:20 AM.

[mekabuser]

I know im being picky at this point, but up until a few nights ago, Ny time, est primetime, was difficult getting a match under any circumstance, let alone grouping up etc.
Theres alot of guys who fit in gaming where and when they can. Especially this game. older and all.
I got a two month old so time is of the essence. /PLEASE dont wake up NOW!/

[Tasker]

You sign up for game called "Community Warfare."

But don't want to join community or organize within community. Hm.

[mekabuser]

shad0w4life, on 12 February 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

No one in Marik runs a public teamspeak server? That's all I do, I don't belong to a unit but -SA-, DERP, 267, -SC- all use strantamechty so if I drop with any of them I pop in there and voila some organization.

Also you CAN get lucky, we had a completely random pug barely beat a 12 man group in the Canyon map, it worked out because no one brought utterly idiotic builds. We had LRMs with lights popping UAVs etc, and people listened when we said DON'T range fight since IS will obliterate us at range, we all sat and waited for the push, didn't worry about losing the 1 generator on outskirts, once they pushed a corner and many of us were lying in wait.

It was a brawl, which worked out well as we would drop a few then force them to drop in a new mech and they could no coordinate a full on light rush to get the gens. We had people in some streak patrols specifically to get any single lights. This ultimately drove them to push in heavies & assaults in to an open space where turrets and the team could unload. During all this we have a streak boat watching the far gate for ECM light trying to sneak in. Dropping the time down to critical point making them have to push out.

It ended at about 42-40 score with omega quite damaged but we won. This was with about 2 players no being on board and getting wiped out along with being lucky guessing their sneak attacks and being able to 2 v 1 mechs at right opportunity.


Now I did finish the match with about 3800 Dmg and a few others in the 2k range, so we may have just played our mechs perfectly all in the right match. (2 PPC Timber, MPL Timber, Streak Adder, SPL+erLL Crow deck)

Short Version; Tactics CAN win a pug vs 12 man on the canyon map with it's limited entry points as long as you play to your teams build strengths and you don't get new players thinking that it's like 12v12 and doing an overheat alpha to try and get a kill is a great idea.

yes all true , and ive been part of drops like that, but thats one in ten, maybe. I mean it is a bit scary, attackers basically run the same plays everytime, but people just dont know how to defend, even staying within the confines of their base. But then again, hey would be nice if like the mini map signified how important the gennys are, or anything.. idk .. so frustrating
We will see with voip, but PGI really has their work cut out for them.

Its just such a shame that this game has been fighting against its community and players since day one. MVP..

Tasker, on 12 February 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

You sign up for game called "Community Warfare."

But don't want to join community or organize within community. Hm.

Community.. my community is marik. I fight for them..

[Amsro]

get on a house team speak and group up for better results, you don't even need to speak just hearing what is going on helps.

[InRev]

shad0w4life, on 12 February 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

No one in Marik runs a public teamspeak server? That's all I do, I don't belong to a unit but -SA-, DERP, 267, -SC- all use strantamechty so if I drop with any of them I pop in there and voila some organization.

We do indeed have a public TS server and signing up for it is a very painless process. Just have to sign up on this website: http://housemarik.enjin.com/

In fact, last night we had several 12-man groups of pugs and small units running defensive ops in the FRR. I personally was part of 4 victories on defense on Satalice, including one against a CWI 7-man, before I had to go to bed. Defending is 100% possible, even with PUGs and even against famous units, but being on comms definitely helps. In fact, I would say it's practically a must.

House Marik is a very welcoming and tolerant bunch of players that is extremely effective at integrating our PUGs and small units into a cohesive fighting force. We don't judge, we don't berate, we don't force meta builds and we try to get the best out of our PUGs, even if they run "suboptimal" builds and compositions. Please stop on by our TS, make yourself known, and meet some of the guys!

[BARBAR0SSA]

^^
yay there you go


You could also focus on carrying harder, and I legit mean that, for every mech you have, do enough damage to take down 2 mechs. Memorize locations of weapon clusters on builds etc. It will make a difference.

Great example, I was 2 v 1 against some injured mechs, thankfully I had TC for quick targeting info, I took out the weapons on the 1 so he was a stick with an ML then rather getting bloodlust going KILL KILL, I immediately targeted the other and took him out(5ss MPL build) and then said hi to sticky. Staying alive so I could add in some more damage before going boom.

Even type out commands, people tend to listen. We have a pug vs 10 man that was losing, I said sit back at the base let the turrets and drop ships help us and some streakboats go to rear gen and defend it, a few others agreed so the rest of the herd followed and all of a sudden we were tied. (Boreal the dropships have great LOS it seems)


Voip will help a LOT though

Edited by shad0w4life, 12 February 2015 - 09:45 AM.

[Triordinant]

mekabuser, on 12 February 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

Yes, Im a pug.. but then again, so are most of the people Ive been dropping with over thousands of MWO matches including CW.
I want CW to work, and I "think" it can but it needs.. tweaking , serious tweaking.

When I read what PGI wrote about how CW works just before it went live, I could already tell what was going to happen: the 12-man PUGstomping, the ghost drops, the spawncamping, the long wait times, the last few hours before the ceasefires being the only ones that mattered, Units switching sides every week -all of it. You're right to stay away for now. Check it again when it's no longer Beta -I knew well enough not to try it until that time and was able to "resist the shiny".

[Necromantion]

Sadly the scope of community warfare and the size of the community for MWO does not lend itself to Pub and Group queues for community warfare, hop on a TS for your preferred faction and have some fun. Besides multiplayer games are never fun without a few buddies to do stupid stuff with and joke around on teamspeak or something. Just my two cents

[Krivvan]

mekabuser, on 12 February 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

but people just dont know how to defend, even staying within the confines of their base.

It really grinds my gears to hear someone typing "DON'T LEAVE THE BASE" when the right course of action at that moment is to push out and quickly destroy an outnumbered group of enemies.

Many people don't know when to be defensive and when to be aggressive, and extreme passivity is generally the reason why pug teams lose.

[Ghogiel]

I avoid pugging solo in CW. I'll drop with 2-3 mans sometimes. But it really isn't all that fun when you have a bunch of trials doing whatever they tend to do..

[TygerLily]

I do really like the idea of being able to "upvote" anyone who clicks the Company Command button at the end of a match. I'd forgo any downvoting but it would be cool to accumulate a score for people to see...tie in some achievements or something. Could be neat.

Edited by TygerLily, 12 February 2015 - 11:48 AM.

[jaxjace]

I havent seen my faction attack anything at all in a month. def only.

[Alexander Steel]

Quote

Community.. my community is marik. I fight for them..

Marik isn't a community, it's the name of a faction in lore. The Community is made up of the players and being part of that group takes more than just putting a tag on your profile.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 12 February 2015 - 10:23 AM.

[Apnu]

mekabuser, on 12 February 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

Yes, Im a pug.. but then again, so are most of the people Ive been dropping with over thousands of MWO matches including CW.
I want CW to work, and I "think" it can but it needs.. tweaking , serious tweaking.

I can handle putting up the good fight on defense, ill always get MY licks in, but there comes a point, and that point was last night , where you just say why?

I know it happens, I know 12 mans or large groups drop in for defense, but i suspect that unless its a specific planet, for a specific reason, most large group drops go on the offensive / Speculation, but I wouldnt be surprised if Im right/

THat leaves pugs holding the bag most of the time concerning defense. I make the above point because it is MIGHTY rare that I face anything less than at least an 8 man group as a defender. It is equally rare that I have a four man or something cohesive on my defensive team.

I believe I was facing CWi ? last night.. Cutterwolfs clan.. And you know what, they fought us honorably, They didnt cheese us in any way but the loss was inevitable over several different matches. I say this because there is a mighty amount of cheese from some groups, but that is in large part because the very foundation of the game mode is flawed. So even in the best of circumstances, defense is horrid. Normal behaviour from attacking teams is downright repugnant, you know, how humans tend to be with power.

VOIP will help to an extent, but there is a problem with voice and command with pugs.
WHo to listen to?
THe game needs a mechanic, like redit or whatnot where team mates can give rep to commanders who issue good orders, and OR some type of mechanic that qualifies you for command.


its been stated before by others, but small groups and pugs should be lumped together according to your faction etc and thrown in the pot. Attack, defend, whatever, all of it determined by the MM.
Large groups can decide what they want to do..

Sorry rambling post, but right now this game is very square peg round hole and its just really a mess.

believe me , Id rather be playing CW in a ny fashion because I cant stand half the maps in regular rotation, and OR you know I want some content, but its just not there. nor is there any point.

Fear not, and do hang around MWO. You're right CW is a unfair playing field for PUGs. Nonetheless, you deserve a seat at the CW table like everybody else.

PGI knows this and its been acknowledged several times by Russ. They will be bringing PUG options to CW this year. Might be around summer time or later, but they'll come.

They're looking at smaller CW encounters (4v4, 8v8) and PvE options, plus other game modes. My point is: they know there's a problem and they are cooking up ways to solve it.

I think PGI will eventually have to separate PUGs and premades in Invasion/Counter Attack. Just like they did in the public queue. Gamers are too competitive to take a foot off the throttle and that obsessive aspect of our nature is what will require the separation. Players will whine as they do, but they'll settle in with it like they did with the pub. queue.

There's a certain class of player in MWO that thinks the game is for them and them alone and they have trouble accepting other people play the game with a different style, view and objective from them. That's where all the gnashing of teeth comes from. Sadly, there's a maturity problem with gamers.

But not you. You are doing the right thing. Taking a break from CW and waiting to see what happens later on. Placing suggestions here to be discussed is helpful too.

[Mystere]

Necromantion, on 12 February 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

Sadly the scope of community warfare and the size of the community for MWO does not lend itself to Pub and Group queues for community warfare, hop on a TS for your preferred faction and have some fun. Besides multiplayer games are never fun without a few buddies to do stupid stuff with and joke around on teamspeak or something. Just my two cents

Apnu, on 12 February 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

I think PGI will eventually have to separate PUGs and premades in Invasion/Counter Attack. Just like they did in the public queue. Gamers are too competitive to take a foot off the throttle and that obsessive aspect of our nature is what will require the separation. Players will whine as they do, but they'll settle in with it like they did with the pub. queue.

Even if the population was bigger, I would still resist the creation separate queues, especially if it results in having multiple instances of the same BT universe. Why? I find having multiple copies of the same universe utterly ridiculous.

I'd rather the solution be done via more innovative game modes and maps.

Apnu, on 12 February 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

Fear not, and do hang around MWO. You're right CW is a unfair playing field for PUGs. Nonetheless, you deserve a seat at the CW table like everybody else.

What you call "unfair", this particular solo player calls "hard mode". This isn't Dark Souls.


mekabuser, take a break. But dip into CW once in a while to see if the changes suit your taste.

Edited by Mystere, 12 February 2015 - 11:38 AM.