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Sneak Peek: Is Quirk Phase 2 (Feb. 17, 2015 Patch)


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#401 Insects

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 05:34 AM

About time that Locust was hit with the nerf hammer, it was so OP...

#402 BaconCouch

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 05:42 AM

Err...Maybe I'm pants on head ********, but can someone explain how this is a 9S nerf? The heat generation and CDR are unchanged.
So what, the PPCs are faster...just means less travel time, and less lead needed.
If anything... i'd call that a buff...I don't drive the thing myself.

Edited by BaconCouch, 13 February 2015 - 05:46 AM.


#403 totgeboren

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 05:47 AM

View PostBaconCouch, on 13 February 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Err...Maybe I'm pants on head ********, but can someone explain how this is a 9S nerf? The heat generation and CDR are unchanged.
So what, the PPCs are faster...just means less travel time, and less lead needed.
If anything... i'd call that a buff...


Some would call a 25% heat reduction worse than a 50% heat reduction. But sure, 30% increased velocity is much better than a 15% increase. But the heat will make a much bigger difference.

Now the AWS-9M will at least be somewhat comparable to the -9S. Though the difference in hard point placement and speed will probably still relegate the -9M to a lulzy kinda mech.

Edited by totgeboren, 13 February 2015 - 05:49 AM.


#404 deadmedo

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 05:47 AM

View PostBaconCouch, on 13 February 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Err...Maybe I'm pants on head ********, but can someone explain how this is a 9S nerf? The heat generation and CDR are unchanged.
So what, the PPCs are faster...just means less travel time, and less lead needed.
If anything... i'd call that a buff...


so... from

Additional Structure L/R Torso15
ER-PPC Cooldown25%
Energy Weapon Cooldown12.5%
ER-PPC Heat Generation-50%
Energy Weapon Heat Generation-25%
ER-PPC Velocity15%
Laser Duration-15%

to

Additional Structure (LT&RT) +15
ER-PPC Cooldown +12.5%
Energy Weapon Cooldown +12.5%
ER-PPC Heat Gen -12.5%
Energy Weapon Heat Gen -12.5%
ER-PPC Velocity +30%
Laser Duration -15%
Missile Weapon Cooldown +15%

And you call this a buff?? OK......

EDIT:

12.5% more cooldown
50% more heat gen

for

15% more velocity

Edited by deadmedo, 13 February 2015 - 05:52 AM.


#405 Karl Streiger

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:01 AM

View Posttotgeboren, on 13 February 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

The Wubverine nerf feels extremely excessive. Sure, it was perhaps a bit too much quirking, but a simple nerf of say the range buff would have been enough, considering the bad hardpoint locations and no jjs.

Now there will only be a single medium mech with any LPL quirks, the BJ-1X. :(

Incredibly boring.

The WVR-6K still got the 12.5% bonus for Energy Weapons - so you still can use LPL.
If there is a concern - the missing 130m instead of 540m effectiv range for the LPL you got 410m.

If you do - and if you compare it to the "quirked" inferior LL Wolverine - you will realize that the "OP" of the Wubverine was not the problem of the quirks but the Large Pulse Laser.

If you compare both weapons LL vs LPL the LPL deals more damage as the LL until 430m.
For same heat and reduced burn duration (more effective damage)

This grave balancing issue is only clouded by the "quirks"
If you are so eager to change the Wolverine into the LL Build its your fault - because even with the new quirks the LPL on the Wolverine outclasses a single LL up to 480m

Edited by Karl Streiger, 13 February 2015 - 06:07 AM.


#406 Duke Nedo

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:20 AM

View PostJakob Knight, on 13 February 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:


I'm afraid it is you who missed the point. The point isn't to balance it against other IS mechs, but against -Clan- mechs. That was the point of the Quirk system.


Sure about that? From what I have understood the initial goal was to turn more robots into viable robots, that's why the "best" IS mechs hardly got any quirks. Some robots were obviously overquirked (and I say that as an IS player).

Anyhow, we need both IS vs IS balance, Clan vs Clan balance and IS vs Clan balance. The only way to get there is to choose a baseline level for where balance is supposed to be and then move all mech variants towards that place. If they now picked a level that is slightly below the 9S and tuned down a notch, the Timber and Crow would need to follow when clan robots get their pass, right?

Point is, if we want IS vs Clan balance we need to start to level the field somewhere and during this pass the IS mechs are tuned. If PGI had not done this we would just end up with Thunderbolt vs Timberwolf/Scarecrow balance instead, and that is so much less fun...

#407 Mauller

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:23 AM

Some interesting changes in here. It'll shake things up a bit thankfully. I do wish that they'd gone back and revisited the K2. Changed the quirks to make it more representative of the spirit of the mech with PPC and not ballistics.

Also, I love the hyperbole of "Oh noes! 9S is useless now, I must empty my mech bays and commit seppuku because I generate more heat!"

Edited by Mauller, 13 February 2015 - 06:59 AM.


#408 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:39 AM

View PostEvilCow, on 13 February 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:

The nerf of the LPL on the Raven 2X was expected after all the whining on the forum...

At least it got the long awaited missile quirks.

people complained about the Raven-2X? I just killed them when I saw them.

View PostApostal Sinclair, on 13 February 2015 - 12:54 AM, said:

What about the Awesome 9M?!

full list on tuesday.

#409 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:43 AM

View PostSarlic, on 13 February 2015 - 01:08 AM, said:

Sarlic uses currently the Gauss on the K and likes it. :ph34r:
Yet the K is still hardmode to pilot at in order to get some good damage.

The K is suppose to be a long range mech. It's a walk-with-the-group mech due his dual AMS. But it can also engage LRM boats at will, but it's not suppose to be the brawler. Other mechs can outbrawl the K easily.

The K is designed to be a long-range supportive mech with the group. It's up for medium to long range combat situations. But if it has to brawl, it will probaly lose. :)

But i am scratching my head why they did remove the (ER)PPC quirk and replaced it with a ERLL

because it comes with 2 ER Large Lasers?

#410 Ovion

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:44 AM

View Posto0Marduk0o, on 13 February 2015 - 03:43 AM, said:

Yes, they made the 3M and to a lesser extend the 1E useless with the removal of laser range quirks. The 1E can do almost everything better now and without weapon specific quirks you can build the same weapons in both, just less in a 3M.

No idea who thought the change was necessary. <_<
They did?
Because prequirked, my 1E with 6 SPL was very good.
Then post quirks, it was better, even with it being SL focused with me keeping SPLs on it.
Now the focus is gone, further buffing it.

Never especially cared for the 3M, but I bet the 4SPL, 1MPL build will still be solid.

Then on top, we get extra internal structure, for 40pts of health each leg with max armour.

I'm happy with this.


#411 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:46 AM

View Postgoatreich, on 13 February 2015 - 02:51 AM, said:

More important than quirks? when are the old mechs going to be updated with new geometry? Dragon, cataphract and awesome need some love and be able to display what they really have in the loadout...

As for quirks, I will survive despite all.

be careful what you ask for, or you could end up like the Sad Centurion......

#412 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:51 AM

View PostApostal Sinclair, on 13 February 2015 - 04:18 AM, said:

Won't someone think about the Clans!

On a real note, if quirks are coming down to their base load-outs... well half the stock loads on most IS mechs are the same flavour across the chassis. I'm more pissed that their assigning quirks based on these stock weapon systems which effectively kill that variant. Look at the Loup De Guerre:



You notice it has a ton of energy generalist quirks and MPL quirks... it has 2... yes TWO energy hardpoints compared to the 4 missile hardpoints. Any decent build on the Loup was brawler based with SRM 4's... I used 2xPPC 2xSRM4 to level and fell into the 4xASRM4 2xML brawler in group play. The old SRM quirks gave it the extra life as a brawler and let you trade above your weight as a 50t machine with bad hitboxes and the desperate need for an XL.

But that energy quirks... and tonnage wasting MPL one to boot... I can't think of any build off hand that would make use of that simply because the weight of MPL on a tonnage sparse mech is massive, and the fact that those arms are damage soakers, so extended fights (or just when it's full alpha fests) you'll lose the point of the majority of your quirk decision.

Seriously think there should be better consultation with actual players, and not users of the forum warrior cliche... good ideas do come from here, but why is it always the whiners that get their way...

Lol. Love it. When something is quirked the way a person wants, everything is rosy, and anyone who might want it the other way is a non entity, etc.... then something gets done a way you don't like, OMG FORUM WHINERS.

If you really think that 10-20 people complaining on the forums have enough pull to make Russ change things just to suit them, you are seriously delusional, dude.

PGI is a business. They gather data and telemetry, both for their "vision" of eventual balance, but more importantly, at the end of the day, financially. Any change being made will be because of some glaring discrepancy in one or the other. They spent the last 2 passes embracing the "Pro" opinion, and obviously do not like the telemetry they are seeing. If they did like it, they wouldn't be changing anything.

Do love how, if people fight for something someone agrees with, it's all golden, but of course if people have a divergent opinion they are forum whiners and don't really play the game. They've been consulting "actual" players. Apparently they decided that catering to your 1% club was not moving the needle the way they wanted.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 February 2015 - 06:52 AM.


#413 The Iron Chancellor

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 07:02 AM

This is intriguing, Ill break down my thoughts on these quirks in segments;

BJ-Arrow - Finally, this is what it should've had from the get go, no complaints there.

Orions - Unfortunately with the change made to the Protector, what little interest I may have had in getting one in the future is now gone, while that is a personal preference (on my part) I liked the notion of a mini Atlas Orion, however with this list it'll become a mini-Atlas-K, and lord knows you don't see those around often (At least the lore/stock nuts can shut up now).

Quickdraw-4H - Really? who the hell puts LRM's on a quickdraw? and a brawler variant at that?
must be the same people who pilot LRM Atlai or other such nonsense.

Highlanders - Wont revive this dead mech unfortunately.

Atlas - instead of minor additions of armor/structure, why not add Torso Yaw speed so as to make it truly able to use its shield arms effectively in a brawl? Adding armor/structure to the arms is pointless if its too slow to twist them around anyway.

Thunderbolt - While this was expected for a long time, I was hoping the nerf would not be so......knee-jerky in nature, its basicly reversed back to 1st Quirk pass status where it was barely used, with the only (maybe) exception being that velocity, guess we'll see if it vanishes from the battlefield again, ironically though, it still might be superior to the Awesome, hitbox and hardpoint location wise.

Wubverine - RIP, I was never particularly mad at this one, not sure why it has been decided it was so strong that it had to be nerfed to the point that its weapon category got switched around altogether, that is a shame,
I'm concerned it'll join the CN-AL in obscurity.

CTF - I do not own 1X or 2X, so I cant say much about this, as for 3D, those are nice little additions regardless, seeing as it is an extinct mech, regarding IM, I just don't understand why would I take an IM with 3 AC5's over a CTF-4X with 4xAC5, therefore why is it so hard to just give that tiny 7.5% bonus to UAC5 considering that is whats most commonly used on it anyway, and is what differentiates it from the 4X.

RVN-2X - dont think Ive seen this mech used frequently at all, dont understand the changes.

Huggins - Nice tiny additions, might encourage more MG use and less purist SRM4 usage.

I expect the finalized full list to contain good news regarding Victors and Awesomes, because both need it.

The rest of the mechs I'm oblivious on and cannot comment on.

Edited by The Iron Chancellor, 13 February 2015 - 07:04 AM.


#414 Jody Von Jedi

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 07:09 AM

View PostRorvik, on 12 February 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:


...says my QKD-5K! :D


So far, this is the only quirk change I've been excited about. I run mine similar to yours, but with a 360XL.

#415 Triordinant

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 07:13 AM

View PostDuke Nedo, on 13 February 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

Sure about that? From what I have understood the initial goal was to turn more robots into viable robots, that's why the "best" IS mechs hardly got any quirks. Some robots were obviously overquirked (and I say that as an IS player).

He's correct. The only reason Quirks were created was to give IS 'mechs a fighting chance against Clan 'mechs (as opposed to nerfing Clan 'mechs even more) and that's why the worst IS 'mechs got more quirks than the best.

#416 Jody Von Jedi

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 07:15 AM

View PostKisumiKitsune, on 13 February 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

QKD-4H
LRM/10 Cooldown +10
LRM/10 Heat Gen -10%


View PostThe Iron Chancellor, on 13 February 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

Quickdraw-4H - Really? who the hell puts LRM's on a quickdraw? and a brawler variant at that?
must be the same people who pilot LRM Atlai or other such nonsense.


At least it kept the general missile quirks. And got a little help with energy weapons.

Missile Weapon Cooldown +10%
Missile Weapon Heat Gen -10%
Medium Laser Cooldown +10%
Energy Weapon Cooldown +10%
Energy Weapon Heat Gen -12.5%

Edited by Jody Von Jedi, 13 February 2015 - 07:16 AM.


#417 goatreich

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 07:23 AM

View PostJody Von Jedi, on 13 February 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:


So far, this is the only quirk change I've been excited about. I run mine similar to yours, but with a 360XL.

I run a 350 XL and LL on the torso for better ridge humping.

#418 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 07:28 AM

View PostJody Von Jedi, on 13 February 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:


So far, this is the only quirk change I've been excited about. I run mine similar to yours, but with a 360XL.

whelp my PPC build is still toast, but that's OK, I don't run em much anyhow, so if it suits your build better, more power to it, since you do like to run yours a fair bit. Did any of the TBT changes fit your needs?

#419 Jacob Side

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 07:30 AM

Quirks should be aimed at the stock loadout of the mech, not the aimed at how the player base wants to play the mech.

If the mech comes with lrms stock the quirks should be aimed a lrms, not srms or streaks.
If the mech comes with mgs stock the quirks should be aimed at mgs,not AC20's

#420 Torgun

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 07:32 AM

View PostJacob Side, on 13 February 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

Quirks should be aimed at the stock loadout of the mech, not the aimed at how the player base wants to play the mech.

If the mech comes with lrms stock the quirks should be aimed a lrms, not srms or streaks.
If the mech comes with mgs stock the quirks should be aimed at mgs,not AC20's


Following that fantastic reasoning we have almost all Battlemasters have laser quirks focused on medium lasers. How much diversity and fun!





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