215 replies to this topic

[F4T 4L]

EvilCow, on 13 February 2015 - 01:06 AM, said:

If there is a lesson to be learned here then it is that forum whining do work.

Sigh.

[Insects]

I await the screaming over the increased velocity.
"Baaawwww they now shoot 12.5% slower but I cant sidestep the shots anymore...even more OP...Im quitting and nobody can have my stuff....waaaahhhhhh"

[Widowmaker1981]

Chemie, on 12 February 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

big buff to clans. They now rules the range game with no counter.

Really? That short sighted?

BLR-1S

911 meter range ERLLs. 21 DHS. 71kph. STD engine.

Show me a clan mech that can match that range please?

Just one example.

TDR-5SS can do the same thing, with less heatsinks (911m range ERLLs and can mount 4) if you are worried about fitting a BLR into a dropdeck.

Built right IS mechs outrange clans by a country mile now, you just have to pick mechs with +range quirks and put ERLLs on them.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 13 February 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[Lily from animove]

LordKnightFandragon, on 12 February 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

I lit my pitchforks and sharpened my torches!!!!!

make a pitchtorch, and stick 2 toches on every spike of your pitchfork. Then dualwield Pitchfors. revolt like you mean it.

[Kaeb Odellas]

FupDup, on 12 February 2015 - 09:43 PM, said:

That would ridiculously favor the CERPPC. Both guns could use some lovin', but that's a pretty big disparity between their effectiveness.

Man, imagine a 3-round burst-fire CERPPC. 3 projectiles, 5 damage each. Boost velocity to 1500 m/s. It would be weaker against fast-moving targets due to spread, but stronger against slow targets since you can more easily land the 3 bolts in the same location.

[Widowmaker1981]

Kaeb Odellas, on 13 February 2015 - 01:41 AM, said:

Man, imagine a 3-round burst-fire CERPPC. 3 projectiles, 5 damage each. Boost velocity to 1500 m/s. It would be weaker against fast-moving targets due to spread, but stronger against slow targets since you can more easily land the 3 bolts in the same location.

You mean make it like Clan ACs, but instead of having the advantage of at least being cold being incredibly hot? Yeah, im sure that would see LOTS of use.

Not. No one would ever equip one again.

[F4T 4L]

Widowmaker1981, on 13 February 2015 - 01:44 AM, said:

You mean make it like Clan ACs, but instead of having the advantage of at least being cold being incredibly hot? Yeah, im sure that would see LOTS of use.

Not. No one would ever equip one again.

It wouldn't need ammo, so I don't think you're right; lots of limited tonnage mechs might be interested in such a weapon.

[Widowmaker1981]

F4T 4L, on 13 February 2015 - 01:47 AM, said:

It wouldn't need ammo, so I don't think you're right; lots of limited tonnage mechs might be interested in such a weapon.

Tonnage isnt the reason no one uses Clan ACs (outside of boated UAC5s on DWs). The reason is they suck utterly. This would be worse (same thing but HOT instead of cold)

[Cyborne Elemental]

The velocity will balance things out, as you won't need to spam as much if you can hit what you're aiming at in the first place.

I think it also opens the door for mixed loads which is where the TDR should have been in the first place.

Its got alot going for it with dual ballistics, dual AMS, all that gets ignored because the PPC quirks were overdone and shifting people to only use that weapon.

[Sarlic]

I think it was bloody time to get rid of builds. Weed them out instead of nerfing per chassis and or weapon values.

We all have been expecting this.

I am sure i am going to piss or jarate some people off by saying this.
Well, sort of in my opinion. Just a pick of what i am seeing lately:

• Stalker with only LL. Nothing else.
  
• Direwolfs with only CUAC. Nothing else.
  
• Thunderbolts with ER PPC. Nothing else.
  
• Thunderbolts 5K with only MPLs. Nothing el
  
• King crabs with only UAC. Nothing else.
  
• Stormcrows with only Streaks. Nothing else.
  
• Firestarters with only SMPLs. Nothing else.
  
• Wolverines with LSMPL. Nothing else.
  
• Maddog with SRMS6. Nothing else.
  
• Cidada with PPCs. Nothing else.
  
• Raven with only ERLL. Nothing else.
  
• Jager with AC40 or Gauss Rilfes. Nothing else.

.. Do i really have to name them all?




And my story goes on..

Customising. It has it's plus, but it has also have ther cons.

This is no meta. This is 'crap' and has in my opinion nothing to do with customizing at all.
With people dropping hardpoints in order to get the most out of their mech. Or should i say [insert vomit technology] here is something i have been seeing alot more in the game. And it's increasing by the day.

Look, i like to customize as well. And it's a challenge to fill in all the hardpoints you need in order to profit on all ranges. Customising your mech is one of the fun most things ingame. Both making it your mech and outfit personal as it gets. Camo-paint and you're ready to go.
But things change when people are intentionally dropping hardpoints in order to get more 'dakka' or 'vomit'.

I am personally really getting tired of seeing these builds over and over again and shows that people only play as a invidual for getting the highest damage as possible.
That's no build for teamwork.

Nothing wrong with making brawlers and such. You can do that with all hardpoints filled in. Less 'dakka' or 'vomit', but more skillfull and fun.
Back in the days of both closed and open beta we had to deal with the same issue. The issue still precists.

I am talking about a requirement: basic thing of filling all hardpoint prior to launch in battle. Numerous people have tried to brough this subject up multiple times, unfortunatly up to now without any succes.

Allright, for each summed up build so far you can counter it. I know each build comes with a risk. Which is in any particulary case not bad, but i personally feel it's just to show how big your ball of sock in your underwear is.
Right, to my knowlegde you either can make the build work with a decent risk of for example overheating or less armor but the fact still remains that there is still some [vomit technology] in there.
Now i don't judge for example the Nova, because the Prime has a standard hardpoint loadout of 6E. Or other examples who are hardtied such as the Catapult or the Stalker.

If you think i am whining just about a thing that everyone is 'free' to customize then i would like to tell you how much Thunderbolts only carrying the ERPPCs have you noticed in about the last couple, let's say, about three weeks?
That's right. It's pretty obvious. Because of the quirks the TDR got buffed pretty good which people gladly make use of it. Just because it's so (terrible) good people are even buying the Mech and outfit it with that specific 'meta'.

-Or-

I am sure you have seen some new 'greenies' on your team. You have to carry, you have to learn and apapt, you have to aid and perhaps you have to tank for them. But have you ever noticed that particular 'greenie' is carrying a better loadout for the team then you?
"Look at that. My goodness. It has a LRM rack onboard. And a couple of lasers as well!"

The greenie might not be experienced, but i like his loadout way more then your [insert meta] loadout. They learn how to adapt a loadout with all weaponsvariety and ranges. I don't say he or she will be a top damage dealer, but their loadout in a supportive is way better.

Which i now come to the point that people are going for the -best of the best- obvious what's available at the time, which is really a shame actually. Let me remind you of another example. When the Victor and the Dragon Slayer got introduced. Shortly after these wonderful chassis arrived people began to use to poptart with it. Yes..before you think out loud it was with PPCs.
Because the JJ (or better said Jump Jets) was alot more viable then now. With all the complaints of 'poptarting', PGI decided to adjust the JJ-system (The mechs got later). Which has elimited the poptarting for now.
Pinpoint damage have changed alot the past years. People got faster at it, tons of weaponvalues have been changed and new mechs added and or quirked.

Back on the countermeasures. Now you will probaly think: "Each Mech with that loadout has a (certain) risk. Deal with it!".
I can deal with it, for now. But i wished things would have been a little different. I can wish, right?
What happened with actually customising for the better goal; loadout variety. Or better said: a supreme cornerstone for your team. A team supportive build with weapons variety on all ranges.

Am i saying that customising should be removed? Ofcourse not. I like customizing as much as you do, but my only vote goes for all hardpoints needs to be filled in.
I would like to see a stockmode only que. But that's offtopic. So i will not waste your time on that, ha.

Wether you instead go full boating with MPLs you will have a few MPLs with a rack of streaks and one AMS. Well, i am sure you get the idea.

My question to you: How do you think about this kind of builds and what would your proposed solution be? What would you change in the current system?

You don't have to like my vision or opinion, but please remain constructive. Oneliners are lame and not wanted. Again, this is my opinion.

Thanks alot.

See you on the field.

Edited by Sarlic, 15 February 2015 - 03:04 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Sarlic, on 13 February 2015 - 02:20 AM, said:

I think it was bloody time to get rid of builds. Weed them out instead of nerfing per chassis and or weapon values.

We all have been expecting this.

I am sure i am going to piss or jarate some people off by saying this. I don't care.

Well, sort of in my opinion. Just a pick of what i am seeing lately:

• Stalker with only LL. Nothing else.
  
• Direwolfs with only CUAC. Nothing else.
  
• Thunderbolts with ER PPC. Nothing else.
  
• Thunderbolts 5K with only MPLs. Nothing el
  
• King crabs with only UAC. Nothing else.
  
• Stormcrows with only Streaks. Nothing else.
  
• Firestarters with only SMPLs. Nothing else.
  
• Wolverines with LSMPL. Nothing else.
  
• Maddog with SRMS6. Nothing else.
  
• Cidada with PPCs. Nothing else.
  
• Raven with only ERLL. Nothing else.
  
• Jager with AC40 or Gauss Rilfes. Nothing else.

.. Do i really have to name them all?





And my story goes on..

Spoiler

Customising. It has it's plus, but it has also have ther cons.

This is no meta. This is 'crap' and has in my opinion nothing to do with customizing at all.
With people dropping hardpoints in order to get the most out of their mech. Or should i say [insert vomit technology] here is something i have been seeing alot more in the game. And it's increasing by the day.

Look, i like to customize as well. And it's a challenge to fill in all the hardpoints you need in order to profit on all ranges. Customising your mech is one of the fun most things ingame. Both making it your mech and outfit personal as it gets. Camo-paint and you're ready to go.
But things change when people are intentionally dropping hardpoints in order to get more 'dakka' or 'vomit'.

I am personally really getting tired of seeing these builds over and over again and shows that people only play as a invidual for getting the highest damage as possible.
That's no build for teamwork.

Nothing wrong with making brawlers and such. You can do that with all hardpoints filled in. Less 'dakka' or 'vomit', but more skillfull and fun.
Back in the days of both closed and open beta we had to deal with the same issue. The issue still precists.

I am talking about a requirement: basic thing of filling all hardpoint prior to launch in battle. Numerous people have tried to brough this subject up multiple times, unfortunatly up to now without any succes.

Allright, for each summed up build so far you can counter it. I know each build comes with a risk. Which is in any particulary case not bad, but i personally feel it's just to show how big your ball of sock in your underwear is.
Right, to my knowlegde you either can make the build work with a decent risk of for example overheating or less armor but the fact still remains that there is still some [vomit technology] in there.
Now i don't judge for example the Nova, because the Prime has a standard hardpoint loadout of 6E. Or other examples who are hardtied such as the Catapult or the Stalker.

If you think i am whining just about a thing that everyone is 'free' to customize then i would like to tell you how much Thunderbolts only carrying the ERPPCs have you noticed in about the last couple, let's say, about three weeks?
That's right. It's pretty obvious. Because of the quirks the TDR got buffed pretty good which people gladly make use of it. Just because it's so (terrible) good people are even buying the Mech and outfit it with that specific 'meta'.

-Or-

I am sure you have seen some new 'greenies' on your team. You have to carry, you have to learn and apapt, you have to aid and perhaps you have to tank for them. But have you ever noticed that particular 'greenie' is carrying a better loadout for the team then you?
"Look at that. My goodness. It has a LRM rack onboard. And a couple of lasers as well!"

The greenie might not be experienced, but i like his loadout way more then your [insert meta] loadout. They learn how to adapt a loadout with all weaponsvariety and ranges. I don't say he or she will be a top damage dealer, but their loadout in a supportive is way better.

Which i now come to the point that people are going for the -best of the best- obvious what's available at the time, which is really a shame actually. Let me remind you of another example. When the Victor and the Dragon Slayer got introduced. Shortly after these wonderful chassis arrived people began to use to poptart with it. Yes..before you think out loud it was with PPCs.
Because the JJ (or better said Jump Jets) was alot more viable then now. With all the complaints of 'poptarting', PGI decided to adjust the JJ-system (The mechs got later). Which has elimited the poptarting for now.
Pinpoint damage have changed alot the past years. People got faster at it, tons of weaponvalues have been changed and new mechs added and or quirked.

Back on the countermeasures. Now you will probaly think: "Each Mech with that loadout has a (certain) risk. Deal with it!".
I can deal with it, for now. But i wished things would have been a little different. I can wish, right?
What happened with actually customising for the better goal; loadout variety. Or better said: a supreme cornerstone for your team. A team supportive build with weapons variety on all ranges.

Am i saying that customising should be removed? Ofcourse not. I like customizing as much as you do, but my only vote goes for all hardpoints needs to be filled in.
I would like to see a stockmode only que. But that's offtopic. So i will not waste your time on that, ha.

Wether you instead go full boating with MPLs you will have a few MPLs with a rack of streaks and one AMS. Well, i am sure you get the idea.

My question to you: How do you think about this kind of builds and what would your proposed solution be? What would you change in the current system?

You don't have to like my vision or opinion, but please remain constructive. Oneliners are lame and not wanted. Again, this is my opinion.

Thanks alot.

See you on the field.

If i was forced to fill every single hardpoint on a mech, i would simply stick either MGs with no ammo, SLs or SRM2s with no ammo in any extra ports and treat it as a mild tonnage tax.

You will never stop me specializing all my mechs into one or two weapon groups, because it is more effective and thats how i want to play.

Edit: if i was forced to use every hardpoint it would kill certain mechs for me never to be played again, such as any mech with a single shoulder mounted missile launcher (TDR and HBR for example). Dont like huge ST hitboxes for no actual combat gain.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 13 February 2015 - 02:33 AM.

[Sarlic]

Widowmaker1981, on 13 February 2015 - 02:28 AM, said:

If i was forced to fill every single hardpoint on a mech, i would simply stick either MGs with no ammo, SLs or SRM2s with no ammo in any extra ports and treat it as a mild tonnage tax.

You will never stop me specializing all my mechs into one or two weapon groups, because it is more effective and thats how i want to play.

That's not a problem, but i think those things should have been slightly different. (Regarding the system)
I never said it is the ultimate solution or that i want remove the whole system. That's not my point.

But i can guarantee you that you will see more of these wubby builds more in the future. Which is in my eyes fairly dissappointing.

Edited by Sarlic, 13 February 2015 - 02:32 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

One of the things Sarlic and I discussed about his list is that for almost all of the mechs there is a TRO entry similar. It may not be for teh exact chassis but is close enough for a make do.

I'm a dedicated Modified player. I also totally understand Sarlic's perspective. I rarely build Mechs without a mix of weapons. But I accept the desire to build a case specific build. For me teh AC40 Jager and the PPCbolt-9S are particularly good builds. To good maybe, but they hit my target the way I like Really hard.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 13 February 2015 - 02:50 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

joelmuzz, on 13 February 2015 - 01:09 AM, said:

I await the screaming over the increased velocity.
"Baaawwww they now shoot 12.5% slower but I cant sidestep the shots anymore...even more OP...Im quitting and nobody can have my stuff....waaaahhhhhh"

Yup, but now the TDR cant do it for 7.5 heat. ERPPCs shouldnt be able to be side stepped, so...people can just QQ about that. PPC and ERPPC should all be around 1200-1300ms, not 1000 and 900..

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 13 February 2015 - 04:37 AM.

[Deathlike]

The sad truth of all of this...

I bought the Thunderbolt-9S when it was sale a while ago... and never got to use the damned mech.

Oh well.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Lily from animove, on 13 February 2015 - 01:30 AM, said:

make a pitchtorch, and stick 2 toches on every spike of your pitchfork. Then dualwield Pitchfors. revolt like you mean it.

A Burning Trident with ring of Torches attached to it just below the poky end Then light the poky end on FYAH!!!!

[CDLord HHGD]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

From Quirks Sneak Peak:
TDR-9S
Specialty
Additional Structure (LT&RT) +15
ER-PPC Heat Gen -12.5%
Energy Weapon Heat Gen -12.5%
ER-PPC Cooldown +12.5%
Energy Weapon Cooldown +12.5%
ER-PPC Velocity +30%
Laser Duration -15%
Missile Weapon Cooldown +15%

vs the current:
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LT): 15.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT): 15.00
ER PPC HEAT GENERATION: -25.00 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -25.00 %
ER PPC COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
ER PPC VELOCITY: 15.00 %
LASER DURATION: -15.00 %

Well, there goes half your cooling.... bye bye spam!

But nice consolation of increasing the velocity.

Shame they can't just fix the PPC velocity to start with, and thus not need uber stupid level quirks to make them "viable".


Still kiddies, might want to vent your rage this weekend, because tuesday come, y'all are gonna need a new toy!

LOL.

Oh thank God.....

Been hoping for a new meta-shift. When the TBR and SCR pilots are complaining, you know there's something up...

[Bobzilla]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

well, they would also need the community to actually reach some type of grown up consensus...you saw how fast cults of personality and egos and agendas derailed the ECM talks. Well, and certain redditors outright sabotaging things.

In fact, I am still pretty convinced that was why Russ extended the opportunity.... because it was a good way to demonstrate that for all our talk... in general the community is too petty, too myopic and too full of it itself to do any better, or get any more unified support behind an idea.

Just look at all the petty bickering and blatant agendas on this topic.

If he truly wanted valid input, he'd have to give statistics. Ask any group what should be done based solely on how they feel and give no facts is asking for these types of responses.

Nobody is right or wrong, so arguments can't be anything but anicdotel. That combined with vastly different experiences in game makes it 10 times worse.

I'd wager he doesn't play that much so seeks advice from a select few, and then makes changes based on community outrage. Which kinda makes sense to me. Sure people say the forums are a vocal minority, but maybe they represent the silent majority perfectly.

[Astrocanis]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

From Quirks Sneak Peak:
TDR-9S
Specialty
Additional Structure (LT&RT) +15
ER-PPC Heat Gen -12.5%
Energy Weapon Heat Gen -12.5%
ER-PPC Cooldown +12.5%
Energy Weapon Cooldown +12.5%
ER-PPC Velocity +30%
Laser Duration -15%
Missile Weapon Cooldown +15%

vs the current:
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LT): 15.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT): 15.00
ER PPC HEAT GENERATION: -25.00 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -25.00 %
ER PPC COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
ER PPC VELOCITY: 15.00 %
LASER DURATION: -15.00 %

Well, there goes half your cooling.... bye bye spam!

But nice consolation of increasing the velocity.

Shame they can't just fix the PPC velocity to start with, and thus not need uber stupid level quirks to make them "viable".


Still kiddies, might want to vent your rage this weekend, because tuesday come, y'all are gonna need a new toy!

LOL.

You sound inordinately bitter. You having too hard a time in your OP clan tech? Playing IS and finding yourself not quite as uber as you thought you were? Or should be?

LOL - Schadenfreude works both ways bubba.

And for the record I rarely play the TDR.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Astrocanis, on 13 February 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:

You sound inordinately bitter. You having too hard a time in your OP clan tech? Playing IS and finding yourself not quite as uber as you thought you were? Or should be?

LOL - Schadenfreude works both ways bubba.

And for the record I rarely play the TDR.

Well, it would make more sense ot just give the PPC 30% velocity and not need the quirk....but I guess that would make to much sense. Its like quirks are a bandaid to try and cover up the thousands of gameplay/balance errors in this game.