215 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Fate 6, on 12 February 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

CERPPCs are bad with the stupid splash damage that they have right now. They will never be better than CLPL unless they get a massive heat reduction or are finally given 15 pinpoint damage. Heck, I'd say make IS ERPPCs fast velocity and leave the clan ones slow to make the 15 damage more balanced. The CERPPC heat is too much for their pitiful 10 damage. And it is 10 damage when you're putting all your damage CT, because the splash means nothing. Or they could add a charge to CERPPCs like with Gauss so that the 15 damage wouldn't be great for brawls.

I'll disagree because they are still PP-FLD which means you can fire and twist away from incoming damage, poptart, peek tart, etc. And you still are getting 10 focused dmg, for 1 ton and 1 crit less than the IS version.

Simply increasing the velocity (as all the quirks seem to be doing, all of a sudden) to a good long range speed, would make them more than worth it. C-ERPPC is still one of my main weapons to use, because I find it very effective.

whereas 15 dmg, 1 ton less, 1 crit less, than the IS version is counter to good balance. Unless you do something like add in some artificial weaknesses it never had before like a massive minimum range, or make it significantly slower projectile that he IS version.

As it sits now, it is still better than the IS version is every way.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

So, dunno, too tired tonight to brainstorm.

Theyd again have to listen to such brainstorming and be willing to impliment ideas regardless of the screaming backlash it might cause.

No; we have changes that get changed back 24 - 48h after theyre put in now

[Brody319]

zortesh, on 12 February 2015 - 09:36 PM, said:

no 3erppc spam? hope all you clanners like guass rifles and erll's.

personally... any nerf to super scary ppfld mechs is okay with me.

man with a maddog badge calling people Clanners

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 09:37 PM, said:

I'll disagree because they are still PP-FLD which means you can fire and twist away from incoming damage, poptart, peek tart, etc. And you still are getting 10 focused dmg, for 1 ton and 1 crit less than the IS version.

Simply increasing the velocity (as all the quirks seem to be doing, all of a sudden) to a good long range speed, would make them more than worth it. C-ERPPC is still one of my main weapons to use, because I find it very effective.

whereas 15 dmg, 1 ton less, 1 crit less, than the IS version is counter to good balance. Unless you do something like add in some artificial weaknesses it never had before like a massive minimum range, or make it significantly slower projectile that he IS version.

As it sits now, it is still better than the IS version is every way.

I prefer to think of it as the IS ERPPC being bad* and the Clan ERPPC being less bad.


*Excluding certain heavily quirked variants

[Nothing Whatsoever]

With ERPPCs, I've been sorta partial to a different approach:

IS ERPPC 10 Damage, 15 Heat, 5 (to 6) second Cooldown, Velocity and Impulse as needed

C-ERPPC 10 Damage, 10 Heat, ~3.33 Second Cooldown, Velocity and Impulse as needed


Then PPC's could swap the no damage under 90 m to what C-LRMs use.

[F4T 4L]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

Ridiculous outlier mechs are bad for the health of the game, period, and usually become even more ridiculous when packed together.

This is the money shot. Why cant the supposedly super-intelligent battletech community see it?

We all know what should have been first on the list of (negatively) quirked mechs.. I will never understand why PGI didn't do the deed.

[Fate 6]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 09:37 PM, said:

I'll disagree because they are still PP-FLD which means you can fire and twist away from incoming damage, poptart, peek tart, etc. And you still are getting 10 focused dmg, for 1 ton and 1 crit less than the IS version.

Simply increasing the velocity (as all the quirks seem to be doing, all of a sudden) to a good long range speed, would make them more than worth it. C-ERPPC is still one of my main weapons to use, because I find it very effective.

whereas 15 dmg, 1 ton less, 1 crit less, than the IS version is counter to good balance. Unless you do something like add in some artificial weaknesses it never had before like a massive minimum range, or make it significantly slower projectile that he IS version.

As it sits now, it is still better than the IS version is every way.

In a vacuum sure it's better, but unless you want to start giving Clan mechs noticeable ERPPC quirks it's not actually better because the IS mechs have -25% ERPPC heat. That extra splash damage means nothing and is a bad mechanic. Clan ACs handled the tonnage/crit difference by using a mechanic that, while annoying, can still do the entire damage to a single component. CERPPCs are impossible to use for their full value, so yes, we should make them 15 damage and find a way to distinguish them from IS ERPPCs through velocity and/or heat and/or a charge mechanic.

You also can't just compare to the IS ERPPC in terms of balance. The Clan LPL is simply more effective right now because despite the range difference the LPL is hitscan and does more potential damage to a single component while having less heat.

Edited by Fate 6, 12 February 2015 - 09:46 PM.

[FupDup]

Praetor Knight, on 12 February 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

With ERPPCs, I've been sorta partial to a different approach:

IS ERPPC 10 Damage, 15 Heat, 5 (to 6) second Cooldown, Velocity and Impulse as needed

C-ERPPC 10 Damage, 10 Heat, ~3.33 Second Cooldown, Velocity and Impulse as needed


Then PPC's could swap the no damage under 90 m to what C-LRMs use.

That would ridiculously favor the CERPPC. Both guns could use some lovin', but that's a pretty big disparity between their effectiveness.

[F4T 4L]

Double post redacted. Apologies for the spam.

Edited by F4T 4L, 12 February 2015 - 09:56 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 12 February 2015 - 09:38 PM, said:

Theyd again have to listen to such brainstorming and be willing to impliment ideas regardless of the screaming backlash it might cause.

No; we have changes that get changed back 24 - 48h after theyre put in now

well, they would also need the community to actually reach some type of grown up consensus...you saw how fast cults of personality and egos and agendas derailed the ECM talks. Well, and certain redditors outright sabotaging things.

In fact, I am still pretty convinced that was why Russ extended the opportunity.... because it was a good way to demonstrate that for all our talk... in general the community is too petty, too myopic and too full of it itself to do any better, or get any more unified support behind an idea.

Just look at all the petty bickering and blatant agendas on this topic.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 09:09 PM, said:

Yup, guess I just made up all my encounters with them too, then. Wasn't running into wave after wave of 9S followed by 5SS Tbolts when I was dropping with CGBI, especially when we encountered groups like 228, etc.

Whatever, don't really give a crap if you believe it or not.

man I wouldve bought 3 9s' lol

F4T 4L, on 12 February 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

This is the money shot. Why cant the supposedly super-intelligent makers of the game see it?

lol

[Nothing Whatsoever]

FupDup, on 12 February 2015 - 09:43 PM, said:

That would ridiculously favor the CERPPC. Both guns could use some lovin', but that's a pretty big disparity between their effectiveness.

Well, the DPS for IS ERPPC would be 2.00 with HPS at 3.00

The DPS for C-ERPPC would be 3.00, with 3.00 HPS

With quirks and the IS having access to PPCs, there would be options available, do I take the trusty PPC or the longer ranged ERPPC?

I also wouldn't mind bringing them back to their stock range.

[Piney II]

I knew the cheese wouldn't last long.......but it was fun.

Time to strip a PPC and add a laser.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

well, they would also need the community to actually reach some type of grown up consensus...you saw how fast cults of personality and egos and agendas derailed the ECM talks. Well, and certain redditors outright sabotaging things.

Ya, on both sides. That whole stupid split wasnt helped by certain ppl grabbing all their friends, taking their ball and going to Outreach, which even Serious Table eventually saw.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 12 February 2015 - 10:05 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

CygnusX7, on 12 February 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

Makes me wonder why PGI seems to take things so far the first time and then reels it back in.

Most likely CW had something to do with it. The normal mode wasn't so bad.

[Goosfraba]

Nerfed for PPC spam, but buffed if you know how to aim properly.

[F4T 4L]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 12 February 2015 - 09:49 PM, said:

man I wouldve bought 3 9s' lol





lol

Meh..

1 I personally never read anything from pgi making that kind of claim. Conversely I see post after post from the community along the lines of "we played TT, don't they know that only smart folks play TT?"

2 I chose my words carefully, I suspect that threats from hordes of QQing clanners threatening to reinforce the island/colonise a new one are likely the reason the deed wasn't done..

Fact is that we have no mechanism to compensate for weak mechs. In the single player team game we have here, all mechs need pros and cons (if we want to see a diverse spread in the field). IMHO quirks are a smart way to do that, and teething issues are inevitable.

On the macro scale things are progressing well.

Edited by F4T 4L, 12 February 2015 - 10:21 PM.

[Viges]

Quote

ER-PPC Velocity +30%

ffs for real?

and people even complain?

Halve the heat, double up velocity - its a direct buff to that sniping bs that is going on already. What were you thinking PGI *facepalm*

[Pjwned]

I still question how appropriate those quirks are, particularly the velocity quirk which is even higher than it (is) was, but it's nice to see the heat quirks being toned down on a potent long range pinpoint energy weapon and it should make things less stupid as a result.

Viges, on 13 February 2015 - 12:51 AM, said:

ffs for real?

and people even complain?

Halve the heat, double up velocity - its a direct buff to that sniping bs that is going on already. What were you thinking PGI *facepalm*

I think people had more of an issue with being able to spam ER PPCs so much that it was quite effective at all ranges, but now closer range mechs clearly have some effective options against the 9S which is pretty much how it should be.

I might agree that the velocity should not have been doubled (maybe even not increased at all) but I don't think I would argue that super strongly because the cooling nerf is what matters a lot more.

Edited by Pjwned, 13 February 2015 - 01:08 AM.

[EvilCow]

If there is a lesson to be learned here then it is that forum whining do work.