215 replies to this topic

[MauttyKoray]

geodeath, on 12 February 2015 - 07:19 PM, said:

Just another case of the no skill forum whiners winning by snot bubble density. There will always be another good mech to make them cry. No real loss.

Because balancing an out of line mech is bad? Sorry buddy but I've played the 9S and played both the PPC AWS chassis. The 9S was way overpowered for its intended purpose, even making the Awesome useless because of it. Until you play the 9S with its new quirks, don't say that the changes are wrong.

[Fate 6]

I wanna see how the DRG-1N comes out after this though. If they hit the 9S like this I'd expect a similar hit to the cooldown quirk on the 1N's AC5s. I'm all for this, btw. It actually makes me feel sick that the CTF-4x is a worse ballistics boat than the 1N.

Edited by Fate 6, 12 February 2015 - 08:21 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 12 February 2015 - 08:15 PM, said:

Im not liking the quirks honestly. It was a good idea gone bad. I still think the weapons need to be balanced better.

Agreed. Very agreed.

I have spelled out time and again what needed doing. But usually get shouted down by the same handful of people, who all know better than the rest of us what this game needs.

1) Balance Tier 1 technology. Set it in stone.
2) Balance Tier 2 (Star League) tech AROUND the baseline set by Tier 1.
3) Balance Tier 3 (Clan Tech) around THIS continuing baseline.
4) As chassis are introduced and strength and weaknesses are assessed, use Quirks for fixing otherwise problematic issues, like hitboxes, or to add flavor back where FPS reality fails to meet TT ideals.

but when your baseline constantly shifts like quicksand in an earthquake, all you get is Metaspikes.

[SweetJackal]

I find this amusing for a few reasons. Firstly being that one of the big and laughable complaints I've heard about the 9S was that the PPC velocity was boosted to almost instant. That combined with high mounted highpoints and "super tanky arms" with the cooldown meant it was a beast. I've heard the claims that the heat wasn't the problem at all, merely just an icing on the cake.

Secondly, my 9S is loaded with 2 ERPPC and 3 MPL. Always found that 3rd ERPPC to be a complete waste of tonnage as it wouldn't be high mounted (and therefore not useable 90% of the time I am using the high mounted ones due to terrain or positioning) and so the biggest benefit of that tonnage, the range, is moot. If that 3rd ERPPC is only going to be effective in knife fighting ranges most of the time then why not exchange it for brawling weapons to be a better knife fighter?

Won't stop the tears of those complaining that the 9S is better than everything in the game and the mech will still be damn good after the change. Anyone whining that the 9S is suddenly unusable or is now complete trash is worse a player than I am, and I suck.

Edit:

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

Agreed. Very agreed.

I have spelled out time and again what needed doing. But usually get shouted down by the same handful of people, who all know better than the rest of us what this game needs.

1) Balance Tier 1 technology. Set it in stone.
2) Balance Tier 2 (Star League) tech AROUND the baseline set by Tier 1.
3) Balance Tier 3 (Clan Tech) around THIS continuing baseline.
4) As chassis are introduced and strength and weaknesses are assessed, use Quirks for fixing otherwise problematic issues, like hitboxes, or to add flavor back where FPS reality fails to meet TT ideals.

but when your baseline constantly shifts like quicksand in an earthquake, all you get is Metaspikes.

Quoted for Truth.

Edited by SuckyJack, 12 February 2015 - 08:25 PM.

[Artgathan]

I'm going to miss the non-stop dance party that was the Wubverine. Even if the 7K gets quirks for it, it won't be able to generate the (almost) unending stream of wub the 6K could.

[Bishop Steiner]

Artgathan, on 12 February 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

I'm going to miss the non-stop dance party that was the Wubverine. Even if the 7K gets quirks for it, it won't be able to generate the (almost) unending stream of wub the 6K could.

Yup. The question though, really, is that 100% a bad thing? Don't get the point of having varied hardpoints, if certain of your "betters" insist the only way to run them is to baot 1 weapon only.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Where is this list please?

[Bishop Steiner]

SuckyJack, on 12 February 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

I find this amusing for a few reasons. Firstly being that one of the big and laughable complaints I've heard about the 9S was that the PPC velocity was boosted to almost instant. That combined with high mounted highpoints and "super tanky arms" with the cooldown meant it was a beast. I've heard the claims that the heat wasn't the problem at all, merely just an icing on the cake.

Secondly, my 9S is loaded with 2 ERPPC and 3 MPL. Always found that 3rd ERPPC to be a complete waste of tonnage as it wouldn't be high mounted (and therefore not useable 90% of the time I am using the high mounted ones due to terrain or positioning) and so the biggest benefit of that tonnage, the range, is moot. If that 3rd ERPPC is only going to be effective in knife fighting ranges most of the time then why not exchange it for brawling weapons to be a better knife fighter?

Won't stop the tears of those complaining that the 9S is better than everything in the game and the mech will still be damn good after the change. Anyone whining that the 9S is suddenly unusable or is now complete trash is worse a player than I am, and I suck.

missing the point. It'll be darn good. We are fine with that. Huge difference in tossing around 7.5 heat lightning bolts, and 11.25 heat Lightning.

And it was never about the mech solo, but about the ability to group together and just mindlessly spam, non stop, even on hot maps. Which it did just fine (sorry, I own one too). Now it's a little less all purpose at it. For some people it' little effect at all. For some it's actually a buff.

But the amount of chest thumping and QQ by some of our comp masters should tell you the change has already impacted it's target audience.

beleneagle, on 12 February 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

Where is this list please?

in the Quirks 2.0 sneak peek thread?
http://mwomercs.com/...-17-2015-patch/

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 February 2015 - 08:29 PM.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Thanks

[Artgathan]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

Yup. The question though, really, is that 100% a bad thing? Don't get the point of having varied hardpoints, if certain of your "betters" insist the only way to run them is to baot 1 weapon only.

I'm not saying it's a change for the worse - I'm just sad to see it go. It was a fun mech to play, and a lot of people underestimated it's (potentially unbalanced) power. That said, the new quirks don't do much to encourage you to not boat weapons on the 6K. The only real difference between the old quirks and the new ones is some dude went to the WVR-6K, highlighted the word 'pulse' and pressed 'delete'.

[Mystere]

Ted Wayz, on 12 February 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

The ones with torches and pitchforks have spoken.

A whip behind closed doors is actually more effective.

[Fate 6]

Artgathan, on 12 February 2015 - 08:35 PM, said:

I'm not saying it's a change for the worse - I'm just sad to see it go. It was a fun mech to play, and a lot of people underestimated it's (potentially unbalanced) power. That said, the new quirks don't do much to encourage you to not boat weapons on the 6K. The only real difference between the old quirks and the new ones is some dude went to the WVR-6K, highlighted the word 'pulse' and pressed 'delete'.

The new WVR-6K will function nearly identically but have a bit more heat. To be honest it's just annoying more than anything, as those of us who liked LPL or had modules for those weapons now just have to deal with swapping to LL. There is basically no point in the change, it could have been accomplished simply through number tweaks instead of entire weapon swaps.

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 08:16 PM, said:

sorry it offends you. Though if people can't take the relatively obvious tongue and cheek nature of it, well, don't know what to tell you.

It doesn't offend me, but the hysterics from people on this topic is ridiculous, and petty posts from people like yourself really isn't needed. You could have easily made this topic without all of the extra nonsense and still enjoyed the satisfaction of these changes.

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 08:16 PM, said:

The ER PPC is about 1.25 pts hotter than the normal PPC for those. So looks like that goal is met. For no minimum range, better long range, better velocity. Now, LOTS better velocity, which is better overall...for what the Comp Overlords claimed it was being used for. The only place it hurts them is up close and personal.... the place they claimed it wasn't good anyhow, in their arguments for it not being OP.

1.25 difference? ERPPCs will be 11.25 at 25% reduction, and regular PPCs will be 8.75 with the 12.5% reduction. That is a 2.5pt difference and that is fairly substantial The better velocity will certainly help I'm just not convinced it will be enough to keep the mech relevant for most people. Personally I liked the mech before any quirks. I also liked it with the first quirks though I still used PPCs over ERPPC because they were just too hot at the -25% rate, and I liked the mech with the -50% ERPPCs though I never used 3 of them and felt that the -50% was bit over the top. I will still like the mech with these changes, but I have to shake my head at all the nonsense this mech has created with the introduction of quirks.

[Bishop Steiner]

Artgathan, on 12 February 2015 - 08:35 PM, said:

I'm not saying it's a change for the worse - I'm just sad to see it go. It was a fun mech to play, and a lot of people underestimated it's (potentially unbalanced) power. That said, the new quirks don't do much to encourage you to not boat weapons on the 6K. The only real difference between the old quirks and the new ones is some dude went to the WVR-6K, highlighted the word 'pulse' and pressed 'delete'.

I'd agree, I don't think "boating" 3 LLs will have quite the punch. And doesn't probably blend as well with the super high engine cap.. with only one missile rack, I probably would have used the Missile quirk slot to add to a beam duration quirk, as that would make it more effective hit and run.

Mystere, on 12 February 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

A whip behind closed doors is actually more effective.

just got back from watching 50 shades of grey, eh?

WarHippy, on 12 February 2015 - 08:44 PM, said:

It doesn't offend me, but the hysterics from people on this topic is ridiculous, and petty posts from people like yourself really isn't needed. You could have easily made this topic without all of the extra nonsense and still enjoyed the satisfaction of these changes.

It's amazing, usually whether a post is viewed as petty or not, seems to depend on if one agrees with it.

I would say it is certainly less petty than the individuals posting all over post after post telling people that is they didn't like Firestarters & Tbolts etc, that they were just bads, who needed to sit back and let their Comp superiors do the talking.

But hey, that's just me.

Also, yeah, sorry if I don't really think it's cool for a mech that comes with 1 ER PPC stock, in it's arm, to boat it because they run cooler than other mechs can run a standard PPC.....including many mechs that were built around multiple PPCs.

11.25 on 2, with the projectile speed means they will work ideally for sniping. But aren't so potent as to be the all purpose go to for CQB too, anymore.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 February 2015 - 08:53 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Andi Nagasia, on 12 February 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

TDR- 9S...................................Old(Now)........New(17th) Additional Structure (LT&RT)....+15.0...............+15..........Same ER-PPC Heat Gen....................-25.0%.............-12.5%.....12.5%Nerf Energy Weapon Heat Gen.......-25.0%..............-12.5%.....12.5%Nerf ER-PPC Cooldown...................+12.5%.............+12.5%.....Same Energy Weapon Cooldown.......+12.5%.............+12.5%.....Same ER-PPC Velocity.......................+15.0%.............+30.0%.....15%Buff Laser Duration.........................-15.0%..............-15.0%......Same Missile Weapon Cooldown........0......................+15.0%......15%Buff so all in all the TDR-9S got Two 12.5%Nerfs, and two 15%Buffs, making it a bit less spammy and a bit more diverse, that seems like a positive change,

Still better than the Awesome, lol.

[Fate 6]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

I'd agree, I don't think "boating" 3 LLs will have quite the punch. And doesn't probably blend as well with the super high engine cap.. with only one missile rack, I probably would have used the Missile quirk slot to add to a beam duration quirk, as that would make it more effective hit and run.



It's amazing, usually whether a post is viewed as petty or not, seems to depend on if one agrees with it.

But hey, that's just me.

But you can have 4LL on the 6K. It hits for a tiny bit more, and has a bit more heat. Coulda just left the 6K where it was and changed the heat reduction or other quirks. It was a cool mech before now it's just gonna be boring like the CN9-AL.

I agree completely with the TDR-9S changes but you have been pretty immature and spammy lately. So yes, it's just you.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 08:08 PM, said:

Yes. Because increasing PPC spam across the board is the ideal way to try to fix the TTK issue.

Then what is lol

But yeah more ppc spam isnt it.

Maybe ghost heat x2 on ppcs?

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

just got back from watching 50 shades of grey, eh?

Nope. It's not showing yet, not in my area anyway.

I'm just speaking from experience.

[Bishop Steiner]

Fate 6, on 12 February 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

But you can have 4LL on the 6K. It hits for a tiny bit more, and has a bit more heat. Coulda just left the 6K where it was and changed the heat reduction or other quirks. It was a cool mech before now it's just gonna be boring like the CN9-AL.

I agree completely with the TDR-9S changes but you have been pretty immature and spammy lately. So yes, it's just you.

should I tear up a little because I am not the cool kid?

Because seriously, you ever think that maybe, just maybe I just don't care any more? I mean hey, whatever I post, however much logic gets put into I just will have Ultimatum spam it and start one of his 500 post I'm a comp and you'0re not spam fights with people. So why should I give a crap if I hurt some tender feelings? Seriously?

Also, not to belabor the point? But I have seen every single person here, especially the ones commenting on this, get snarky, petty, pick fights or be rude on occasion.

Throwing stones, glass houses, etc.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 February 2015 - 09:02 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 12 February 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

Then what is lol

But yeah more ppc spam isnt it.

Maybe ghost heat x2 on ppcs?

Well, we all know that the first step is convergence.

But it ain't gonna happen.

Church of skill peeps cry against anything resembling a CoF, despite the fact that the majority of them only throw a minor degree of inaccuracy, and usually only at the extremes.....

And ya know, every other FPS in existence, pretty much use it.

I personally am all for extending the cooldown on a few weapons like the PPC and Gauss and such. And even widening the GH window. Screw .5 seconds, make it 1 second. You want to minmax spam? Great you get to be exposed a tic to do it.

But of course, GH is "bad" too (it really isn't...just poorly understood, and very inconsistently implemented.)

So, dunno, too tired tonight to brainstorm. But pretty sure PPC Machine Guns? Kinda the Opposite direction of where we want to go.