215 replies to this topic

[Sorbic]

Oh how I'm going to miss people pretending that three quarters of the opposing teams are made up of Thunderbolts when I often see just one or two. I'm also going to miss the cries of "MASSIVELY OP" when seeing them not really standing out in damage/kills because people ignore their barn door shape... I wonder what the next flavor of the month nerf call will be.

Not saying they didn't need a slight reduction in heat bonuses but I loved peoples over the top reactions to an easy to drop offensive mech.

[InspectorG]

Why not just give the Thud 9S's ERPPCs a min range of 200m?

Good at range, helpless up close unless they trade an ERPPC for some backup?

[FupDup]

InspectorG, on 12 February 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

Why not just give the Thud 9S's ERPPCs a min range of 200m?

Good at range, helpless up close unless they trade an ERPPC for some backup?

I think the thing with quirks is that they can only modify existing weapon attributes, not add new attributes. ERPPCs don't have a min range field listed in their code at all, so I don't think quirks could increment it up or down. That's my theory, anyways....

[Bishop Steiner]

Sorbic, on 12 February 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

Oh how I'm going to miss people pretending that three quarters of the opposing teams are made up of Thunderbolts when I often see just one or two. I'm also going to miss the cries of "MASSIVELY OP" when seeing them not really standing out in damage/kills because people ignore their barn door shape... I wonder what the next flavor of the month nerf call will be.

Not saying they didn't need a slight reduction in heat bonuses but I loved peoples over the top reactions to an easy to drop offensive mech.

Hm, except of course for the multiple posted screenies in CW showing just that.

[Sorbic]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 09:03 PM, said:

Hm, except of course for the multiple posted screenies in CW showing just that.

Well screenies are easily duped and I can post a lot of screenshots of Locusts with great damage and kills. Screenshots don't mean jack. And I'm not saying there are cases like that just that it's not always happening like folks pretend. Hell, I've been in games with 4 meh mechs on one team. From locusts to cent's...

Edited by Sorbic, 12 February 2015 - 09:09 PM.

[F4T 4L]

geodeath, on 12 February 2015 - 07:19 PM, said:

Just another case of the no skill forum whiners winning by snot bubble density.

You've zero evidence to back that statement up.

I'd wager the thing was balanced based on hard data. Fact is that neither of us know for sure.

What we both DO know is that machine gunned ppcs are patently OP.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 09:03 PM, said:

Hm, except of course for the multiple posted screenies in CW showing just that.

To be fair, CW's tonnage limits force the meta more towards the center in terms of mech weight distribution. Mechs on the way high-end (assaults) and low-end (lights) often get overlooked in favor of the "sweet spot" high-end mediums and various heavies. The Blunderbolt just so happened to occupy the perfect tonnage to fit 3 of them into a single dropdeck, which exasperated the issue a lot harder in CW than it was in Puglandia or the Group Que Ghetto.

That's not to say there was or wasn't a problem, I'm just saying the CW's drop limits have invoked the Law of Unintended Consequences™...

[Bishop Steiner]

Sorbic, on 12 February 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

Well screenies are easily duped and I can post a lot of screenshots of Locusts with great damage and kills. Screenshots don't mean jack.

Yup, guess I just made up all my encounters with them too, then. Wasn't running into wave after wave of 9S followed by 5SS Tbolts when I was dropping with CGBI, especially when we encountered groups like 228, etc.

Whatever, don't really give a crap if you believe it or not.

[Fate 6]

Sorbic, on 12 February 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

Well screenies are easily duped and I can post a lot of screenshots of Locusts with great damage and kills. Screenshots don't mean jack.

Well every time I've dropped IS with a group there's about 6 people at least in a 9S in the first wave. What other heavy, other than maybe a 1N, is worth bringing as an IS pilot? If you said anything other than "none of them" you're a liar. The 9S in CW was the best possible option for a non-light mech.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 12 February 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:

To be fair, CW's tonnage limits force the meta more towards the center in terms of mech weight distribution. Mechs on the way high-end (assaults) and low-end (lights) often get overlooked in favor of the "sweet spot" high-end mediums and various heavies. The Blunderbolt just so happened to occupy the perfect tonnage to fit 3 of them into a single dropdeck, which exasperated the issue a lot harder in CW than it was in Puglandia or the Group Que Ghetto.

That's not to say there was or wasn't a problem, I'm just saying the CW's drop limits have invoked the Law of Unintended Consequences™...

works both ways. Because it also removed the 3/3/3/3 from the equation. · Tbolts in a Public Drop are strong, especially if on a coordinated group. But 8-12? Spamming ERPPCs 2/1, 2/1, over and over, at range, up close, hot map, cold map? Was pretty dang ridiculous,

Not saying the TW/SC clan drop decks are any less broken, but again, that's because I don't have a strong agenda for either faction. Ridiculous outlier mechs are bad for the health of the game, period, and usually become even more ridiculous when packed together.

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

It's amazing, usually whether a post is viewed as petty or not, seems to depend on if one agrees with it.

I would say it is certainly less petty than the individuals posting all over post after post telling people that is they didn't like Firestarters & Tbolts etc, that they were just bads, who needed to sit back and let their Comp superiors do the talking.

But hey, that's just me.

Posts like that from the comp superiors are absolutely petty and elitist, but in this case I called you out because you were over the top. I just felt it was unneeded given how irritable people are on both sides of this topic. I'm not going to say anymore about it as it is taking too much from the rest of the discussion.

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

Also, yeah, sorry if I don't really think it's cool for a mech that comes with 1 ER PPC stock, in it's arm, to boat it because they run cooler than other mechs can run a standard PPC.....including many mechs that were built around multiple PPCs.

11.25 on 2, with the projectile speed means they will work ideally for sniping. But aren't so potent as to be the all purpose go to for CQB too, anymore.

They already worked fine for sniping the extra velocity just makes it a little easier than before. 30% is only a net gain of 15% from current while the heat changes are rather substantial. I don't disagree that the heat reduction was too much, but I don't think -25% is sufficient to justify using ERPPCs. If you are concerned with other mechs that are traditionally PPC platforms not performing as well as the 9S then we need to look at those mechs quirks a little closer, or better yet do something about PPC/ERPPCs in general as they are rather lackluster without quirks.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 12 February 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

Posts like that from the comp superiors are absolutely petty and elitist, but in this case I called you out because you were over the top. I just felt it was unneeded given how irritable people are on both sides of this topic. I'm not going to say anymore about it as it is taking too much from the rest of the discussion.
They already worked fine for sniping the extra velocity just makes it a little easier than before. 30% is only a net gain of 15% from current while the heat changes are rather substantial. I don't disagree that the heat reduction was too much, but I don't think -25% is sufficient to justify using ERPPCs. If you are concerned with other mechs that are traditionally PPC platforms not performing as well as the 9S then we need to look at those mechs quirks a little closer, or better yet do something about PPC/ERPPCs in general as they are rather lackluster without quirks.

Well, again, to you, I apologize.

[Fate 6]

WarHippy, on 12 February 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

do something about PPC/ERPPCs in general as they are rather lackluster without quirks.

I'd like to throw in my vote for 15/15 CERPPCs while we're at it.
And yes, IS ERPPCs could use a bit of a heat reduction but not too much, only a couple points, while PPCs could use about a point or two reduction in heat. Remember, these weapons are supposed to be effective but not generally be boated. Having a build that's 3ML and 2ERPPCs is totally ok.

[Bishop Steiner]

Fate 6, on 12 February 2015 - 09:24 PM, said:

I'd like to throw in my vote for 15/15 CERPPCs while we're at it.
And yes, IS ERPPCs could use a bit of a heat reduction but not too much, only a couple points, while PPCs could use about a point or two reduction in heat. Remember, these weapons are supposed to be effective but not generally be boated. Having a build that's 3ML and 2ERPPCs is totally ok.

for me, I'm fine with the heat and even the C-ERPPC arcing dmg.

I would simply like them to be 1300/1400 m/s respectively and the PPC have the scaling dmg under 90m again. Then they would, IMO be worth the heat. And certain mechs, like the AWS, should be exempt from GH up to 3 PPC/ERPPC (4 for the WHK)

Mind you, I don't think the WHK needs much heat reduction beyond the GH removal, as the WHK never could consistently use all 4 PPC in TTY, either.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 February 2015 - 09:27 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

Agreed. Very agreed.

I have spelled out time and again what needed doing. But usually get shouted down by the same handful of people, who all know better than the rest of us what this game needs.

Yeah and theyd have to want to listen as well. Or rather they need to know WHO to listen to. Or rather who NOT To listen to

[Fate 6]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

for me, I'm fine with the heat and even the C-ERPPC arcing dmg.

I would simply like them to be 1300/1400 m/s respectively and the PPC have the scaling dmg under 90m again. Then they would, IMO be worth the heat. And certain mechs, like the AWS, should be exempt from GH up to 3 PPC/ERPPC (4 for the WHK)

Mind you, I don't think the WHK needs much heat reduction beyond the GH removal, as the WHK never could consistently use all 4 PPC in TTY, either.

CERPPCs are bad with the stupid splash damage that they have right now. They will never be better than CLPL unless they get a massive heat reduction or are finally given 15 pinpoint damage. Heck, I'd say make IS ERPPCs fast velocity and leave the clan ones slow to make the 15 damage more balanced. The CERPPC heat is too much for their pitiful 10 damage. And it is 10 damage when you're putting all your damage CT, because the splash means nothing. Or they could add a charge to CERPPCs like with Gauss so that the 15 damage wouldn't be great for brawls.

[WarHippy]

Fate 6, on 12 February 2015 - 09:24 PM, said:

I'd like to throw in my vote for 15/15 CERPPCs while we're at it.
And yes, IS ERPPCs could use a bit of a heat reduction but not too much, only a couple points, while PPCs could use about a point or two reduction in heat. Remember, these weapons are supposed to be effective but not generally be boated. Having a build that's 3ML and 2ERPPCs is totally ok.

Agreed 100%. The more I think about it the more I realize that while I was pretty excited about the quirks being added I think they have brought more frustration than just balancing the weapons on their own over time to find the correct numbers. Though I will say that the quirks do have the potential to add some uniqueness and even fun if they were used in unique skill trees for the mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 12 February 2015 - 09:29 PM, said:

Yeah and theyd have to want to listen as well. Or rather they need to know WHO to listen to. Or rather who NOT To listen to

Yeah. Just imagine if they could have reduced the Poptart meta without nerfing the velocity on every PP-FLD weapon, Gauss Charge Mechanics, ruining the VTRs mobility (since largely fixed) and ruining use of JJs for mobility for everyone?

OH wait..they could have.

By simply extending cockpit shake from jumping a full second after cutting the thrust, once jump fall damage was implemented.

Suddenly, one would have to jump higher to be clear for a non shaky shot, be exposed longer, have to mount more JJS to get the height AND have thrust enough to cushion.... and gosh all the people using JJs to you know, get around? Would still be getting around.

Dang..shame no one tried to recommend that instead of listening to certain "Pros" who then proceeded to go along with nerfing the bejeezus out of everything.....

Oh wait....someone did.

Huh.

[Sorbic]

Fate 6, on 12 February 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

Well every time I've dropped IS with a group there's about 6 people at least in a 9S in the first wave. What other heavy, other than maybe a 1N, is worth bringing as an IS pilot? If you said anything other than "none of them" you're a liar. The 9S in CW was the best possible option for a non-light mech.

eh, my heavy for CW is a Jester and I've never seen those kind of numbers, although I pug and haven't done CW in about 3 weeks due to constant interruptions at home. Yeah the 9S is often the best choice for a heavy but most others are pretty meh so what would one expect.

[zortesh]

no 3erppc spam? hope all you clanners like guass rifles and erll's.

personally... any nerf to super scary ppfld mechs is okay with me.