44 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Looking through the files, it seems there are a few mechs that had items pulled shortly before their launch, which did hurt a few of them more than others.

The largest offenders, from which hardpoints were removed, are the Oxide, La Malinche and perhaps the St Ives Blues.

The Oxide had two additional missile hardpoints removed, from 6 to 4. It was apparently deemed too powerful (2.5 damage streak Era?), even with the lack of JJs.

Ignore the slightly broken textures:

Edit: A different, newer picture, complete with ALSO broken cockpit:

Damn...how do I Blender? At least I learned how to go full resolution...all my old ones were at 50%.


Even with 6 hardpoints, unless it's using Streaks or SRM2s, there just isn't the tonnage to have decent ammo while boating 4's. Still, no reason to not have the hardpoints available. The other jenners have 5 and 6 available, all while having access to JJs. This is a completely ammo dependant, ground-ridden Jenner.

Next is the Banshee. Did you know it might have been intended to be Jump Capable? In the files, clearly labelled "calf_jumpjet" and "center_torso_rear_jumpjet":

With the arrows pointing down.

The La Malinche is certainly one of the worst banshees, having fewer hardpoints in worse positions. Now, a JJ capable mech that can only be optained by money might be of concern, but the variant certainly needs some love.


Last is the Vindicator, although it seems to affect the chassis as a whole. There's a 3rd missile hardpoint modelled, which none are using. In fact, the Hero is the only one that gets more than one. Not sure if the worse variants should get the third, or if all of them should get it. An advantage over BJs, who cannot take any missiles:





As an honourable mention, there's also a Victor chassis that I've never seen before; the 9A.

A Victor with 2 ballistic slots, both with 10+ slots unrestricted.
Stock:

Dakka


Why I think it was restricted:

(Dual Gauss Assault mech, or AC40 back in July 2013)


Now, I haven't looked into all of the chassis, has anyone else heard of other things that were removed or restricted for IS mechs?

Clans still have some very nice ones restricted as well...for pretty good reasons.

Edited by Mcgral18, 10 December 2015 - 04:50 PM.

[FupDup]

Me Gusta that Victor...

[MauttyKoray]

Mcgral18, on 12 February 2015 - 09:13 PM, said:

Last is the Vindicator, although it seems to affect the chassis as a whole. There's a 3rd missile hardpoint modelled, which none are using. In fact, the Hero is the only one that gets more than one. Not sure if the worse variants should get the third, or if all of them should get it. An advantage over BJs, who cannot take any missiles:

Oh look, a way to make the 1X viable without silly ballistic builds O.o totally needed...

[Fate 6]

That Victor o_o

[Crotch RockIt]

Me likey that Oxide.

[Bishop Steiner]

The La Malinche originally did have JJs, they were removed shortly before it was released, much liek the extra missile hardpoints on the Vindicators.

Though TBH, I find the LM; with current quirks quite solid.. because it's much more agile than pretty much every other BNC, and 3 LPL and an AC10 is not a joke loadout, with a 380xl.

And it can twist and protect that XL rather well.

[Fate 6]

But seriously, that Victor. Oh my glob. That Victor is the Victor that Victors need, and after quirks it's also the Victor that Victors deserve.

EDIT: literally sitting in my chair giggling at all the builds it would make possible. Heck we could remove the JJs from it and it would still be a good mech.

Edited by Fate 6, 12 February 2015 - 09:26 PM.

[Brody319]

lets unnerf the Huginn!

[Bishop Steiner]

Fate 6, on 12 February 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

But seriously, that Victor. Oh my glob. That Victor is the Victor that Victors need, and after quirks it's also the Victor that Victors deserve.

EDIT: literally sitting in my chair giggling at all the builds it would make possible. Heck we could remove the JJs from it and it would still be a good mech.

I just want my VTRs and other mechs jumping returned.

Jumping was for mobility. Solving poptarting was as simple as extending the cockpit shake for a full second after thrust was cut. Then would would need more skill, more JJs, and be exposed longer to Poptart, but JJs for mobility in general would not have been butchered

[Fate 6]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 09:29 PM, said:

I just want my VTRs and other mechs jumping returned.

Jumping was for mobility. Solving poptarting was as simple as extending the cockpit shake for a full second after thrust was cut. Then would would need more skill, more JJs, and be exposed longer to Poptart, but JJs for mobility in general would not have been butchered

They can be used for mobility when you have enough of them. The problem is that each individual JJ doesn't give enough upwards thrust so it takes about 5 or 6 to really have a significant impact.

[Bishop Steiner]

Fate 6, on 12 February 2015 - 09:37 PM, said:

They can be used for mobility when you have enough of them. The problem is that each individual JJ doesn't give enough upwards thrust so it takes about 5 or 6 to really have a significant impact.

They don't come close, even then to pre Hoverjet mobility. We might not need them jumping 100 plus meters like in CB, but a VTR should be able to get up, twist midair and use them a lot better (and the HGN) than they currently can. And I found, while not PP in aim, that even with screen shake, the old VTR could be a bear at jump shots in CQB.

Pisses me off that jump sniping screwed jumping for everyone.

[MauttyKoray]

Fate 6, on 12 February 2015 - 09:37 PM, said:

They can be used for mobility when you have enough of them. The problem is that each individual JJ doesn't give enough upwards thrust so it takes about 5 or 6 to really have a significant impact.

That's cause they nerfed them. Your quoted post's author was talking about prior-nerf JJs when poptarting was an issue still. Which, causing an after-thrust shake would indeed have fixed it as the poptarting was cause by instant-convergence immediately after cutting thrust.

[Bishop Steiner]

MauttyKoray, on 12 February 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

That's cause they nerfed them. Your quoted post's author was talking about prior-nerf JJs when poptarting was an issue still. Which, causing an after-thrust shake would indeed have fixed it as the poptarting was cause by instant-convergence immediately after cutting thrust.

exactly.

And one COULD still theoretically jump snipe, but the Risk/Reward scenario was no longer so ridiculously favorable (or easy), and JJs would still be fine for combat, mobility and people taking nice up close and personal shots in CQB would still be effective.

But certain Comps didn't like it because it reduced their perfect shot windows...so now nobody gets nice JJs.

Best part being, several would repeatedly say it WAS a bad idea...yet not one actually could come up with a reason or explanation for what made it bad.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 February 2015 - 09:48 PM.

[Fate 6]

MauttyKoray, on 12 February 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

That's cause they nerfed them. Your quoted post's author was talking about prior-nerf JJs when poptarting was an issue still. Which, causing an after-thrust shake would indeed have fixed it as the poptarting was cause by instant-convergence immediately after cutting thrust.

Yes, and when poptarting was a thing you only needed 1JJ to get the same thrust as what we get from 3-4 now. They need to help the heavier mechs, but the lighter ones get plenty out of JJs. I don't think there are really any Novas complaining about their JJ effectiveness right now, I know I'm not. They need to increase thrust generated for larger mechs, or give them a higher JJ cap. I wouldn't expect a single JJ to do any more than it does right now.

[Greenjulius]

You can do similar dual gauss builds as that Victor with the CTF-3D.

Link

There's really no good reason why they didn't release that variant other than competition with the Dragon Slayer.

Edited by Greenjulius, 12 February 2015 - 10:02 PM.

[Lily from animove]

pgi should just make a new JJ overhaul, JJ#s direct your mech too much upwards and not enough forward, that why they always helped jumpsniping and gave not true mobility. a mech from standing still should be bale to jump significantly forward, not upward with a bit forward.

[El Bandito]

Dat Huginn though... ...evaded the nerfbat and emerged stronger than ever.

[Naduk]

there was talk of putting two machine guns on the Oxide
i think that would be nice addition to him

most of the heros do well, but some could certainly use some more love

[FupDup]

Naduk, on 13 February 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:

there was talk of putting two machine guns on the Oxide
i think that would be nice addition to him

most of the heros do well, but some could certainly use some more love

The sad thing is that 2 MGs are barely usable by themselves. Even when you have 4 of them it's not that great anymore. Sadface.

[Deathlike]

For the Oxide, I don't want to imagine a 6 SSRM2 Oxide trolling things but I'd figure it would be a mobile Streaktaro of doom.

The Victor issue was probably born out of fear of the dual AC20 or dual Gauss Assault... but since we have the power creep in the King Crab, now it makes sense to add that back in...

The Vindicator needs help, so whatever PGI did to screw the Vindicator-1X needs to be resolved IMO (just adding 2 missile hardpoints on that is more than enough).

I don't really like the idea of a hero that has a feature the regular variants don't have the opportunity to having... like ECM (Locust hero gets that, but not the 3S or 1M) or JJs so that's a significant factor into the thinking there.

However, the Banshee hero's hardpoints are extraordinarily limiting (it's just too few and you'll be boating large weapons in addition to a large engine) so it's one of those things that needs better discussion and investigation into... and not folks that think they know better (NGNG and the man who shall not be named).

It's an interesting discussion to be had though.