138 replies to this topic

[Morticia Mellian]

I just had someone saying the reported me which I am guessing referring to Non-Participation Abuse.

We were remaining 2 v 2, and my remaining teammate in a Dire Wolf was afk or dc until the last 10 seconds of the match. It happens, I know my client crashed me sometimes, forcing my mech into afk/dc.

The remaining opponents were Timber Wolf and Warhawk or Dire Wolf, against my already critical Cicada 3M. I tried doing some hit and runs, but I was critical, so I run off hiding, zig zagging, and keeping track of them from a distance when possible for possible opportunities.

Since it was a tie and for some reason they have not found the AFKed teammate's Dire Wolf, so I kept them focus on finding me to run the clock. If I am not able to effectively win, a tie is the next best thing.

I know can be boring and sucks, but the point of the matches is to win, even if it is to force a tie and stay alive. If the only way to do that is to stay alive by taking advantage of my speed and ecm, than i do so.

So I get a bit miffed when someone accuses me of abuse for aiming to win. I mainly play lights/light-medium mechs, not exactly the sort to easilly go one on one versus a heavier mech, let alone versus two or more heavier mechs. If i had my Raven 3L, would have been better able to take distant pop shots at them.

How restrictive is this Non-Participation Abuse rule?

Edited by Morticia Mellian, 12 February 2015 - 10:19 PM.

[Zen Idiot]

you're fine.

[Kilo 40]

I wouldn't call that Non-Participation Abuse.

but I don't make the rules either.

[Mystere]

You're fine. They're just salty they couldn't kill you.

As long as you participated in the fight, hiding in the end (powered down or otherwise) is a legitimate tactic. Besides, you're not going to be summarily banned without any warning. They look for patterns of behavior, not one-time occurences.

Edited by Mystere, 12 February 2015 - 10:22 PM.

[Ratpoison]

You used good tactics to prevent a loss, anyone who calls that non-participation is a crybaby who should be ignored. I'm sure some of them will come in here and tell you what a bad person you are for it though. But as stated, they should be ignored.

Edited by tortuousGoddess, 12 February 2015 - 10:49 PM.

[Xetelian]

You make less cBills for a tie (15,000) than for a loss (20,000).

[Pjwned]

The only thing wrong with that is it can make for a kind of boring match in the end, but that's it.

The way I see it, there are 3 kinds of situations which involve powering down to hide like that:

1) You have a drawn out match that involves somebody powering down and hiding, but both teams are nearly even, whether that means a struggle to get enough points in Conquest or 1 fast mech against 1-2 damaged heavier mechs or whatever; this seems to be the case here so you're fine, the only problem is it can make things kind of boring in the end.

2) You have a drawn out match that involves somebody powering down (to accomplish nothing other than not dying) and hiding against pretty much overwhelmingly impossible odds because their team got stomped; regardless of their participation in the match this is always a **** move.

3) Somebody goes to a corner to power down and hide without contributing anything; this is flagrantly against the rules.

Obviously there's a little bit of gray area, but as long as you're at least trying to accomplish something (even if that means hiding until time runs out to secure a draw instead of a loss) then people won't have too much of a problem with it usually.

Edited by Pjwned, 12 February 2015 - 11:27 PM.

[Morticia Mellian]

I didn't power down, I just ran around the map, keeping my distance from them. Last time I intentionally powered down is to temporally hide so they go by, and then i hit them from behind.

Soyes, can be boring, but sucks to be forced to face heavier mechs by myself within a limited confined.

Edited by Morticia Mellian, 12 February 2015 - 11:49 PM.

[Duke Nedo]

@OP, nothing wrong with what you did!

I sometimes have to power down in ways that could perhaps look like abuse from spectators, but if I do it is because one of the kids woke up and started screaming.... it happens. These things happen to lots of people so PGI will really have to look for repeated abuse before taking any action.

[F4T 4L]

Duke Nedo, on 13 February 2015 - 12:27 AM, said:

@OP, nothing wrong with what you did!

I sometimes have to power down in ways that could perhaps look like abuse from spectators, but if I do it is because one of the kids woke up and started screaming.... it happens. These things happen to lots of people so PGI will really have to look for repeated abuse before taking any action.

IMHO this is bullshit. If you can't play you should swallow the death, and likely the loss.

Edited by F4T 4L, 13 February 2015 - 01:17 AM.

[Brother MEX]

Pjwned, on 12 February 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

...
2) You have a drawn out match that involves somebody powering down (to accomplish nothing other than not dying) and hiding against pretty much overwhelmingly impossible odds because their team got stomped; regardless of their participation in the match this is always a **** move.

3) Somebody goes to a corner to power down and hide without contributing anything; this is flagrantly against the rules.

Obviously there's a little bit of gray area, but as long as you're at least trying to accomplish something (even if that means hiding until time runs out to secure a draw instead of a loss) then people won't have too much of a problem with it usually.

There are ALWAYS [redacted] which have a problem with how you play
( no matter how good or bad you are at playing MW0 )

But instead of blaming the player, they should blame PGI for designing the game in such a way !

I for example knew from the moment they introduced a mode without bases that this SKIRMISH mode often will turn into a HIDE & SEEK game until time runs out ... as this is the only way to retreat from a game WITHOUT destroying your own mech !

IF PGI would give us a RETREAT BUTTON, similar to the EJECT BUTTON in CW but with a longer time limit of at least 10 secounds, there wont be so many problems and anger and bickering among the players

And as long as tards die needlessy 11-0 i will try to SURVIVE their incompetence as long as possible, or until PGI finally gives me a RETREAT BUTTON to abandon these [redacted] at any time without getting my mech destroyed

Edited by GM Patience, 13 February 2015 - 09:07 AM.
language

[F4T 4L]

Brother MEX, on 13 February 2015 - 01:52 AM, said:

There are ALWAYS (re)tards which have a problem with how you play
( no matter how good or bad you are at playing MW0 )

But instead of blaming the player, they should blame PGI for designing the game in such a way !

I for example knew from the moment they introduced a mode without bases that this SKIRMISH mode often will turn into a HIDE & SEEK game until time runs out ... as this is the only way to retreat from a game WITHOUT destroying your own mech !

IF PGI would give us a RETREAT BUTTON, similar to the EJECT BUTTON in CW but with a longer time limit of at least 10 secounds, there wont be so many problems and anger and bickering among the players

And as long as tards die needlessy 11-0 i will try to SURVIVE their incompetence as long as possible, or until PGI finally gives me a RETREAT BUTTON to abandon these tards at any time without getting my mech destroyed

Reported.

[SweetJackal]

To put it simply, you're fine OP.

The abuse that is referred to is a form of griefing that is hiding and powering down with the express purpose of dragging out the clock. Doesn't matter if you fought or not, when you do give up and go and hide in a corner to drag out the clock to zero you are in essence punishing the winning team.

What isn't abuse is strategically powering down to hide to try to lure them away from each other or into a worse position. The difference is that you will still turn and fight when an opportunity presents itself, you are removing yourself from the conflict to try to get the enemy team to spread out and become easier pickings.

You were keeping active to aim for the objective OP, you're fine. Guerrilla tactics are valid tactics so long as you are continuing the fight. It's when you completely give up and power down to punish the enemy team that you have a problem.

[Ursh]

Brother MEX, on 13 February 2015 - 01:52 AM, said:

There are ALWAYS (re)tards which have a problem with how you play
( no matter how good or bad you are at playing MW0 )

But instead of blaming the player, they should blame PGI for designing the game in such a way !

I for example knew from the moment they introduced a mode without bases that this SKIRMISH mode often will turn into a HIDE & SEEK game until time runs out ... as this is the only way to retreat from a game WITHOUT destroying your own mech !

IF PGI would give us a RETREAT BUTTON, similar to the EJECT BUTTON in CW but with a longer time limit of at least 10 secounds, there wont be so many problems and anger and bickering among the players

And as long as tards die needlessy 11-0 i will try to SURVIVE their incompetence as long as possible, or until PGI finally gives me a RETREAT BUTTON to abandon these tards at any time without getting my mech destroyed

Except that what you're describing almost never happens in Skirmish mode, since the vast majority of the players aren't trolls who are overly concerned about surviving a hopeless match to soothe their ego. Most people man up and go down fighting, rather than running away.

Also, if 11 of your teammates are dead and you're alive, it doesn't necessarily mean they were incompetent and you're good, it just means that you were standing the furthest back from everyone and probably executing some elite tactical flanking maneuver while your teammates got killed. Oh, and if the score is 11-0, it means you didn't kill anyone either, so you were just as incompetent as your teammates were. You couldn't take advantage of them soaking up damage to get a single kill in...oh poor you.

In the OP's situation, he probably could have just taken the death and gone on to the next match, but if there wasn't that much time left, a tie is okay I think.

Edited by Ursh, 13 February 2015 - 02:40 AM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"In the OP's situation, he probably could have just taken the death and gone on to the next match"

Nah. In a 2 vs 1, trying to string them out and take some precise shots at their internals is the right move.

If this keeps up, teams will be griefing the other for not surrendering at 8-4

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 13 February 2015 - 03:50 AM.

[Astrocanis]

Ursh, on 13 February 2015 - 02:39 AM, said:

Except that what you're describing almost never happens in Skirmish mode, since the vast majority of the players aren't trolls who are overly concerned about surviving a hopeless match to soothe their ego. Most people man up and go down fighting, rather than running away.

Also, if 11 of your teammates are dead and you're alive, it doesn't necessarily mean they were incompetent and you're good, it just means that you were standing the furthest back from everyone and probably executing some elite tactical flanking maneuver while your teammates got killed. Oh, and if the score is 11-0, it means you didn't kill anyone either, so you were just as incompetent as your teammates were. You couldn't take advantage of them soaking up damage to get a single kill in...oh poor you.

In the OP's situation, he probably could have just taken the death and gone on to the next match, but if there wasn't that much time left, a tie is okay I think.

My experience of late in pugs is watching my "teammate" run one after another into a meatgrinder leaving me to be last because <gasp> I'm trying for some of the actual objectives on the map. Which after 28.735 seconds my "teammates" have ADHD'ed out of their heads.

CW is siphoning off most who are even marginally capable these days. I've never seen so many people completely unable to hit what they are shooting at, running into walls or off cliffs and so on. General play has suffered to where I'm considering not playing the game any more.

[XtremWarrior]

To OP, i would say that the one to blame is the enemy team (for being unable to kill you)

Brother MEX, on 13 February 2015 - 01:52 AM, said:

There are ALWAYS (re)tards which have a problem with how you play
( no matter how good or bad you are at playing MW0 )

But instead of blaming the player, they should blame PGI for designing the game in such a way !

I for example knew from the moment they introduced a mode without bases that this SKIRMISH mode often will turn into a HIDE & SEEK game until time runs out ... as this is the only way to retreat from a game WITHOUT destroying your own mech !

The community did request this game mode, even if part of it was already saying things like those would happen.
So you have to blame the community, PGI did their job by giving players what they're asking for.

Brother MEX, on 13 February 2015 - 01:52 AM, said:

IF PGI would give us a RETREAT BUTTON, similar to the EJECT BUTTON in CW but with a longer time limit of at least 10 secounds, there wont be so many problems and anger and bickering among the players

And as long as tards die needlessy 11-0 i will try to SURVIVE their incompetence as long as possible, or until PGI finally gives me a RETREAT BUTTON to abandon these tards at any time without getting my mech destroyed

There is a End-This-Game button. Press the "move forward" key and drive straight toward the enemy. It even has the same 10s cooldown you proposed!

[Morticia Mellian]

If I can Retreat without Mech Loss / Death, yes. I am probably one of the few that pays attention to her Kill / Death and Win / Loss ratios. >.>

As a Raven and Cicada, especially with ECM, I tend to be last or one of the last alot. While I do not always get kills, my assists are usually pretty high...if someone else kills them. It is very ****** to end up last against many, and then get grief from ding dongs 'Just charge and die already!' 'fight them says the heavy/assault pilots'. etc.

If I have the opportunity to attack with minimal risk of too much dmg in return, will take it, otherwise the goal switches to surviving as long as possible until the match ends.

If not for the confined limits, I would realisticly retreat into the wilderness, and switch to more effective guerilla tactics. Just like some of the Battletech stories.

[Duke Nedo]

F4T 4L, on 13 February 2015 - 01:16 AM, said:

IMHO this is bullshit. If you can't play you should swallow the death, and likely the loss.

Eh, I usually come back in 30 secs. Bullshit yourself sir, lol.

[Mystere]

SuckyJack, on 13 February 2015 - 02:21 AM, said:

The abuse that is referred to is a form of griefing that is hiding and powering down with the express purpose of dragging out the clock. Doesn't matter if you fought or not, when you do give up and go and hide in a corner to drag out the clock to zero you are in essence punishing the winning team.

Actually, you might want to look up the mods' position on this.

And by the way, everyone agrees to sign up for a potential 15-minute match.

Edited by Mystere, 13 February 2015 - 09:56 AM.