138 replies to this topic

[Hellen Wheels]

Had a game today where it was 3v1 left, 1 hides, timer to win is like 3:00minutes.

Easy win if he'd just show himself, but he dug in w/ ECM. One of our mates decides to wander off (bad idea) and BOOM head shot. 2v1, 2:00 minutes left.

He (the one) had a valid tactic in hedge hogging. At the same time, the Two left had a valid tactic in just waiting out the timer.

Maybe a trigger should be added where for landslides of a certain extent, if no shots are fired for N number of minutes, the win is triggered as a mercy rule. I'm talking 12v1, 10,v1, obvious routs where someone is just obviously being an ass (not so much in cases of 1v2 w/ 2:00 minutes.)

[Zoid]

This is fine. If there had been 10 of them and 2 of you, not so much.

The problem comes when there are 4 assaults left vs one spider and the spider thinks he's being so skillful by hiding and not getting dead that the enemy team doesn't deserve to kill him. If you have no realistic chance of winning by hiding, it is at least very bad form to do so and in some cases against the rules.

By "realistic chance" I mean that you could actually kill them without them going afk. Yes, one spider CAN kill four assaults, but that's not a realistic chance and everyone knows it.


What really needs to be done is that all enemy 'mechs explode when your team wins by objectives (time, base capture or resources). I'm tired of people cowering to protect their precious KDR and drawing out games that are obviously done.

Edited by Zoid, 13 February 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 13 February 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

Actually, you might want to look up the mods' position on this.

And by the way, everyone agrees to sign up for a potential 15-minute match.

A Moderators interpretation is not a Developers interpretation.

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 February 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

A Moderators interpretation is not a Developers interpretation.

I wish I can still find that post that seems to suggest their position had PGI's (via Support) blessing.

And considering PGI itself has not directly offered any clarification given the numerous threads about this very topic (some of which were epic, in both content and page count), it's good enough for me.

In any case, all it really takes to put this to rest is just 1 sentence from PGI.

In the mean time, though, I'll continue to test the waters when the opportunity arises.

[Bhael Fire]

Morticia Mellian, on 12 February 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

How restrictive is this Non-Participation Abuse rule?

You're not doing anything wrong.

Basically, the Non-Participation Abuse rule only applies to people that habitually load into a match, decide that they don't like the map or their opponents (or team mates) and then intentionally disconnect, refuse to play, or engage in disruptive behavior (i.e. team killing, bird dogging, etc.).

As long as you participated in the match and did your best to win, you have EVERY right to try to stay alive by hiding or shutting down...even if that annoys the other team. If they are a good team, they will find you and summarily destroy you without complaining.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Morticia, you did nothing wrong at all in this case, perfectly legit and valid tactics, you WERE engaging the enemy, you were not shut down and hiding, you weren't the last Mech standing.

Some of you in this thread really need to stop telling people wrong information however. PGI has spoken up on this issue, they'll speak to you directly if you email Support and ask, the reply has been posted on two of the epic threads about this subject recently.

Non-participation covers disconnecting purposely at the start of the match, shutting down and doing nothing throughout the match, or being the last Mech standing in Skirmish(and ONLY in Skirmish) and shutting down and hiding to avoid being killed and dragging out the clock without attempting to engage the enemy, ESPECIALLY if you do so to protect your KDR, which PGI directly stated is a no no.

Morticia, avoiding the enemy to protect your KDR falls under that rule, so if you are the last Mech standing, make sure you aren't just sitting somewhere shutdown to hide and not die while dragging out the clock. Failure to engage the enemy is NOT participating in the Skirmish game mode, but ONLY in the Skirmish game mode. Assault and Conquest have alternate methods to win/end the match, so non-engagement can be a valid and useful tactic. Skirmish, there's no justification for the last Mech standing to avoid the enemy and not engage, you won't get a win or a draw, you are simply wasting time to either protect your KDR or you are griefing 23 other players, pick one. Support and Primus of ComStar have stated, clearly, it's not allowed.

[Mystere]

Kristov Kerensky, on 13 February 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

Non-participation covers disconnecting purposely at the start of the match, shutting down and doing nothing throughout the match, or being the last Mech standing in Skirmish(and ONLY in Skirmish) and shutting down and hiding to avoid being killed and dragging out the clock without attempting to engage the enemy, ESPECIALLY if you do so to protect your KDR, which PGI directly stated is a no no.

This is what I need to see. I just can't find that particular reference or continually miss it on those epic threads. Could you kindly point everyone to the specific posts?

[Kensaisama]

I guess ill be the one griefing then in Skirmish, because if I am the last mech standing then I will run around the map and take pot shots from range and repostion and continue to harrass, I will not offer myself up as an easy kill, you want the match to end then you need to WORK for that kill and meet the conditions for victory as set forth by the developers. I will not hide and shut down, I do not care about KDR, I do not care if I am wasting your time, it is also my time as well and I will utilize it how I see fit, if you feel your time is being wasted, you have the option to leave the match and start another, no one is holding a gun to your head making you stay and watch.

Besides if you are already dead then you are wasting your own time hanging around in spectator mode, not me.

Edited by Kensaisama, 13 February 2015 - 12:12 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

That's funny Mystere, since you quoted the Support email reply in the epic thread yourself. Mayhap you should read what you are quoting in the future?

Kensaisama, you are one of the people causing the confusion here, and doing it quite nicely I might add, practice makes perfect they say. Running around, sniping at the enemy, not shutting down and hiding to run out the clock, you violated no rule, guess you missed that huh? I would suggest you too read the posts before you respond to them, your responses might be on target.

[Felio]

The way I see it is it's really not your fault PGI created Skirmish mode.

[Hellen Wheels]

Mystere, on 13 February 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

This is what I need to see. I just can't find that particular reference or continually miss it on those epic threads. Could you kindly point everyone to the specific posts?

You don't need to see anything, except common sense. Every single hypothetical instance of a rule application doesn't need to be spelled out in detail for you before you get the spirit of it, does it? If so, then you're part of the problem.

Edited by Hellen Wheels, 13 February 2015 - 01:51 PM.

[Mystere]

Hellen Wheels, on 13 February 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

You don't need to see anything, except common sense. Every single hypothetical instance of a rule application doesn't need to be spelled out in detail for you before you get the spirit of it, does it? If so, then you're part of the problem.

This 31 page (and counting) thread says otherwise.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Mystere, on 13 February 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

This 31 page (and counting) thread says otherwise.

And you did in that thread what you are doing in this one, sowing confusion purposely. That's the thread where you quoted the Support email no less, how about that! As Hellen said, part of the problem.

[Mystere]

Kristov Kerensky, on 13 February 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

That's funny Mystere, since you quoted the Support email reply in the epic thread yourself. Mayhap you should read what you are quoting in the future?

Ahem! I wrote that in this thread before I went to and wrote on the other one. It's really easy to verify if you know how. The question is, do you know how?

[Kristov Kerensky]

So you did Mystere, so...why didn't you come to this thread and post that you'd found the statement from PGI?

No need to answer.

[Mystere]

Kristov Kerensky, on 13 February 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

So you did Mystere, so...why didn't you come to this thread and post that you'd found the statement from PGI?

No need to answer.

Actually, I feel a need to answer, and that is: You already answered it via your post here.

And things could have just ended then and there. Unfortunately ...

By assuming malice on my part by saying:

Kristov Kerensky, on 13 February 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

sowing confusion purposely

where there was actually none, just revealed your own malice ... or worse.

[Ratpoison]

Kristov Kerensky, on 13 February 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

So you did Mystere, so...why didn't you come to this thread and post that you'd found the statement from PGI?

No need to answer.

Because you continuously spin it to mean what you want it to mean when it pretty clearly is referring to farmers who continuously shut down and don't intend to play game after game. Not amused.

Edited by tortuousGoddess, 13 February 2015 - 02:19 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

tortuousGoddess, on 13 February 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

Because you continuously spin it to mean what you want it to mean when it pretty clearly is referring to farmers who continuously shut down and don't intend to play game after game. Not amused.

You should read the response from PGI yourself, it's not MY rule nor my interpretation of the rule, it's what PGI said it is. Morticia did nothing wrong, I said that, covered what she will want to watch out for since she DID state she plays to protect her KDR and that's something PGI frowns upon, per PGI's own statement.

Mystere, you purposely in this thread and the other make statements that sow confusion, and you mean you don't mean to do it maliciously? You state how you'll do exactly what is not allowed and have been and have not ever gotten in trouble for it, remember? You even tell Morticia to BREAK the rule in this thread and tell her she'll be fine if she does. How is that not sowing confusion? After finding that PGI reply, you didn't come back here and tell Morticia to not break the rule, it does actually exist and she would get in trouble for doing it, why not? I mean, that's the decent thing to do since you told her to break it in the first place.


And before I called you posting that reply in the other thread, you'd already responded to Hellen, USING that very thread no less AFTER you'd posted the reply there, without admitting you'd found the reply, instead using that thread to show that no one knows what the rule is.

Yeah, you were clear and upfront and obviously only had the best for everyone in your head when you were posting on this subject.

Edited by Kristov Kerensky, 13 February 2015 - 02:36 PM.

[Mystere]

Kristov Kerensky, on 13 February 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

You should read the response from PGI yourself, it's not MY rule nor my interpretation of the rule, it's what PGI said it is. Morticia did nothing wrong, I said that, covered what she will want to watch out for since she DID state she plays to protect her KDR and that's something PGI frowns upon, per PGI's own statement.

Mystere, you purposely in this thread and the other make statements that sow confusion, and you mean you don't mean to do it maliciously? You state how you'll do exactly what is not allowed and have been and have not ever gotten in trouble for it, remember? You even tell Morticia to BREAK the rule in this thread and tell her she'll be fine if she does. How is that not sowing confusion? After finding that PGI reply, you didn't come back here and tell Morticia to not break the rule, it does actually exist and she would get in trouble for doing it, why not? I mean, that's the decent thing to do since you told her to break it in the first place.


And before I called you posting that reply in the other thread, you'd already responded to Hellen, USING that very thread no less AFTER you'd posted the reply there, without admitting you'd found the reply, instead using that thread to show that no one knows what the rule is.

Yeah, you were clear and upfront and obviously only had the best for everyone in your head when you were posting on this subject.

Guess what? After going through that other thread again, and recalling all the unrelated things being used as points and counterpoints, I have come to the conclusion that this whole issue is still a big **** up. Otherwise, it would have stopped at page 20.

Note, one of the main points of contention is the phrase "maintaining your K/D ratio". What if the reason is not that? What if the reason is to make the enemy earn the last kill? Is that not a valid reason?

As such, only a direct, clear, and concise statement from PGI will do, especially because that is my reason for doing so. And I am not alone.

As for the OP, the intent was:

Morticia Mellian, on 12 February 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

... so I kept them focus on finding me to run the clock. If I am not able to effectively win, a tie is the next best thing.

and not to "maintaining your K/D ratio". Is the OP reportable?

Edited by Mystere, 13 February 2015 - 03:14 PM.

[Pjwned]

Brother MEX, on 13 February 2015 - 01:52 AM, said:

There are ALWAYS [redacted] which have a problem with how you play
( no matter how good or bad you are at playing MW0 )

But instead of blaming the player, they should blame PGI for designing the game in such a way !

I for example knew from the moment they introduced a mode without bases that this SKIRMISH mode often will turn into a HIDE & SEEK game until time runs out ... as this is the only way to retreat from a game WITHOUT destroying your own mech !

IF PGI would give us a RETREAT BUTTON, similar to the EJECT BUTTON in CW but with a longer time limit of at least 10 secounds, there wont be so many problems and anger and bickering among the players

And as long as tards die needlessy 11-0 i will try to SURVIVE their incompetence as long as possible, or until PGI finally gives me a RETREAT BUTTON to abandon these [redacted] at any time without getting my mech destroyed

While I agree that Skirmish should have some sort of feature to avoid the hide & seek crap, it's still largely your fault if you go run off and hide in a situation like that, especially if you know full well what a pain in the ass it is to everybody else in the match. Not wanting to get destroyed is not a good excuse and never will be, every time anybody does that they are just being a tool.