141 replies to this topic

[Fate 6]

Never give things more heat, that is a terrible balancing method. Also, never reduce speed. Give them mobility nerfs and bring up everything else to be even. Orions should be scarier heavies than other IS heavies, for example.

Edited by Fate 6, 13 February 2015 - 03:46 PM.

[o0Marduk0o]

Joey Tankblaster, on 13 February 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

A hitbox fix for the SCR is necessary. The deathcrow soaks up damage like an assault.

Hit the legs, not the torso locations. This hitboxes are fine, they are just quite small and you hit multiple locations, when using lasers. Arms, side and center torso all together on a small area, perfect to spread damage.

[LordKnightFandragon]

FupDup, on 13 February 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

Why would you nerf the IS ERPPC?

I thought it only had 740m range.

[FupDup]

LordKnightFandragon, on 13 February 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

I thought it only had 740m range.

Open up Smurfys.

[LordKnightFandragon]

FupDup, on 13 February 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

Open up Smurfys.

Oh, well thats impressive lol.

[Vxheous]

kapusta11, on 13 February 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

Clan TECH is OP, I mean lasers and Gauss (you'll notice it when dual gauss capable heavies will be released), The TBR and SCR themselves are fine.

The reason clan mechs primarily use lasers is because clan ballistics, apart from the gauss is junk. Why bring a clan ultra ac5, which is ammo dependant, when it weighs more, and shoots in a stream to spread damage like a laser does?

Nerfing the tbr and scr so they become crap like the rest of the clan mechs is like saying IS lights need all their engine rating turned down so they are slow like clan lights

[kapusta11]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 13 February 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

The reason clan mechs primarily use lasers is because clan ballistics, apart from the gauss is junk. Why bring a clan ultra ac5, which is ammo dependant, when it weighs more, and shoots in a stream to spread damage like a laser does?

Nerfing the tbr and scr so they become crap like the rest of the clan mechs is like saying IS lights need all their engine rating turned down so they are slow like clan lights

So your point is?

I'm against TBR and SCR nerfs if they don't adress the issue directly.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 13 February 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

Open up Smurfys.

You know... such an answer is Lostech when you wonder why they try to balance things not knowing the original data.

Although, that could be the standard operating procedure of the man who shall not be named.

[Koniving]

Adiuvo, on 13 February 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

Buffing everything up to the level of those two is massive powercreep and will decrease TTK heavily. Copying another post I made on the subject:



Regarding the problem clans specifically, Stormcrow needs some turn rate adjustments, and possibly heat adjustments per omnipod. TW needs turn rate adjustments and accel/decel changes, but keep the max speed the same. Daishi really just needs something to lower its heat cap when taking the prime arms. Those arms basically cause most of the issues. I'd also make changes to the S torsos so that there's actually a reason to take something else over them.

For those who don't know:
Power Creep.


Now the issue with the Stormcrow, quite simply is an animation to hitbox issue. Nothing more. Adjusting the hitboxes or the animation will quite literally solve the issue there. Less bouncey = more predictable = easier to register accurate hits. Or hitboxes that don't say "Put all but 2 on the front, tank like a mech 30 tons heavier than yourself!"

The same hitbox address on the Timber Wolf would also fix it.
Currently the hitboxes allow you to have 2 armor on the rear, get completely surrounded, and still have no damage to your rear.
Bit of a problem, isn't it?
Especially when you consider:
Typical Timber Wolf armor: 75 tons
CT: 90/2
STs: 62/2 <--Can be completely surrounded and brawling solo against 6 different enemies and die with zero rear damage despite a complete circlejerk.
Typical Victor armor: 80 tons
CT: 86/14
ST: 54/14 <-----Will take rear damage just by LRM fire, takes rear damage easily from one on one combat and typical twisting to spread damage.

Notice something wrong?


-------

Far as the Thunderbolt, and any heavily exploiting set of quirks... This requires a more global fix. First lets look at the definition of what PGI intended for quirks to do.

When created originally it was to give you a reason to choose Less over More in regards to hardpoints. When given the choice of 1 weapon hardpoint or 5, what do you choose? 5, why? Because more. Thus quirks were born to make the lower-number-hardpoints viable.

Here's an example, the single missile launcher on the Cataphract 4X and the Grasshoppers. Absolutely worthless due to double armor, huh? Well making them fire twice as fast would certainly let you feel like you had twin launchers, huh? Well there ya go.

Instead, it's "ER PPC + 50%" bonuses on a Thunderbolt 9S who only has 1 ER PPC stock... but 6 energy hardpoints that can ALL MOUNT ER PPCS!

Horrific oversight, now isn't it?
Omnimech quirks are Limb Specific. Why aren't Battlemech quirks limb specific?

Bam. Solved the overpowered Thunderbolt issue.
Right arm ER PPC super quirk doesn't apply to any other energy hardpoint.
Wham.

Edited by Koniving, 13 February 2015 - 05:54 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

These magic hit boxes you speak of on the Timberwolf I've never experienced. I have however been cored in the rear from the front in my Timmy, and I have also Ben cored in the rear from the rear. I've never taken a shot to the rear and have it rev on the front. Maybe my copy of the timberwolf is defective. Wtf PGI?

[Vxheous]

I tried this so called 2 armor in the back of the Tbr once...after a firestarter 1 shot me in the back with 8 small pulse, never again.

[El Bandito]

Even if other Clan mechs are boosted, the Crow and the Timbie still need nerfs. And I am saying that precisely because I own those mechs.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Koniving, on 13 February 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

Hit box stuff

Ok, what is so amazing about the SCR hitbox? Could you draw me a picture of what it looks like? I have taken mine into CW and it seems to die just fine really.

It might be a kinda skinny mech, which gives it small hit boxes for the torsos, or do the torsos wrap around to far and so there is a very small rear area or what?

El Bandito, on 13 February 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

Even if other Clan mechs are boosted, the Crow and the Timbie still need nerfs. And I am saying that precisely because I own those mechs.

So PGI takes the TBR and SCR's mobility and agility and lowers them 10%, not quirks, but straight lowers the base values by 10%. Always kinda thought the SCR turned to far left and right anyway. What else can they do to nerf it? Give it a bunch of negative reload and heat quirks and beam duration quirks?

[El Bandito]

LordKnightFandragon, on 13 February 2015 - 07:34 PM, said:

Ok, what is so amazing about the SCR hitbox? Could you draw me a picture of what it looks like? I have taken mine into CW and it seems to die just fine really.

It might be a kinda skinny mech, which gives it small hit boxes for the torsos, or do the torsos wrap around to far and so there is a very small rear area or what?




So PGI takes the TBR and SCR's mobility and agility and lowers them 10%, not quirks, but straight lowers the base values by 10%. Always kinda thought the SCR turned to far left and right anyway. What else can they do to nerf it? Give it a bunch of negative reload and heat quirks and beam duration quirks?

Yeah, with the specific goal of getting them to use something else than pure laser vomit. Cause that is the most easy-mode setup those two have.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 February 2015 - 07:37 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

El Bandito, on 13 February 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

Yeah, with the specific goal of getting them to use something else than pure laser vomit. Cause that is the most easy-mode setup those two have.

Then buff teh other weapons a bit.....make them less of a joke and you would see more of them used. Ofc, lasers are the best dmg/weight ratio, soooo....its kinda a game design thing really....get as much damage as you can in as little space as you can......we would need an entirely new game to truly remove laser vomit.

[Aiden Skye]

If PGI were to make clan ballistics more interesting than heavier versions of lasers that are ammo dependent, then you might see less laser vomit. I don't use the typical laser vomit builds as I find it bland, but I also don't use clan ballistics as well as they just aren't worth the tonnage.

[El Bandito]

LordKnightFandragon, on 13 February 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

Then buff teh other weapons a bit.....make them less of a joke and you would see more of them used. Ofc, lasers are the best dmg/weight ratio, soooo....its kinda a game design thing really....get as much damage as you can in as little space as you can......we would need an entirely new game to truly remove laser vomit.

If we buff other weapons then the whole thing would be pointless, as the Crow and the TImbie will still be head above the rest, using other setups--thanks to their ample tonnage savings. Not saying non-energy Clan weapons do not need love, but trying to nerf Timbie and Crow via laser vomit nerfs while buffing other weapons is contradicting itself.

So, hitbox and mobility nerfs first, on those two. Widen their CT hitboxes so they will be easier to kill, even from the sides, and slap torso twist speed nerfs. Let them pay their firepower and speed with torso mobility nerfs.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 February 2015 - 07:48 PM.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

I recently started to play my stormcrows which i found cheesy before cuz it was so popular with the broken hitboxes. Now after piloting them i realized that they are even better than i thought.

Speed,
insane torso twist speed
Nice Free tonnage for alot weapons even uac20+ 3 ml + 6-7 tons ammo (its almost gargoyle level)
Awesome pods
Great hardpoints(full missile, full lazer 7!, even ballistic options.

Its time to nerf it


I dont wanna buy the timbergod. I would be shocked how good it is

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 13 February 2015 - 07:49 PM.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Joey Tankblaster, on 13 February 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

A hitbox fix for the SCR is necessary. The deathcrow soaks up damage like an assault.

If it would be only the broken hitbox. The mech is a master in most of the roles. its almost the perfect mech + the hitbox issues

[Andi Nagasia]

personally i dont like the idea of Speed and or range of motion(Angle) Nerfs,
how ever i do think perhaps some hitbox reworking, as well as Turn Speed nerfs would work,
it would still have its place as a weapons platform but other mechs would be able to out turn it,