141 replies to this topic

[Golden Vulf]

EvilCow, on 13 February 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

Apparently the chosen direction is to tone down the best performers instead to bring up the others. The consequence should be that now TBR and SCR should be addressed.

Changing weapons would negatively affect also the other clan mechs so probably the best thing to do is to give negative quirks to specific mechs/pods instead and don't nerf the weapons even more.

For example the SCR-Prime arms could get a 10% more heat on lasers (per arm), the mech itself could get a 10% speed nerf, basically restricting it to its base speed after the speed tweak bonus.

Agility and torso twist should also be looked into, there is past experience in this, it is the way the Victor was "balanced" when it was still worth something. It suddenly disappeared so I imagine the same medicine could work for TBR and SCR. The killer machine K2 also saw similar torso movement limitations.

More ideas?

Timberwolf is supposed to be the finest battlemech ever made. If they nerfed it any more than it already has been nerfed, they'd have to nerf every other clan and IS mech to keep it on top.

I really don't understand what the heck you're trying to get at here.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Golden Vulf, on 13 February 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

Timberwolf is supposed to be the finest battlemech ever made. If they nerfed it any more than it already has been nerfed, they'd have to nerf every other clan and IS mech to keep it on top.

I really don't understand what the heck you're trying to get at here.

Bs logic. This is not a comic, its a video game. Mechs should be relatively balanced. The timberwolf is out of control and needs a nerf. Its a master in every role

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 13 February 2015 - 08:43 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

See (HERE) i think i found the problem,
and as long as people keep getting killed my them they will keep feeling they are op

[Golden Vulf]

So the Timberwolf seems overpowered compared to what exactly? Your 50 ton LRM Hunchback running an IS xl? I suppose I would agree there is a difference in value.

Every time we see:

The Timberwolf needs to be stopped!

Should we assume the following line is implied:

Before it gets too close to my LRM 50 Atlas!

?

The Timberwolf is not any stronger than any of the other heavy clan mechs with endo steel. They are all equal.

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 13 February 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

Bs logic. This is not a comic, its a video game. Mechs should be relatively balanced. The timberwolf is out of control and needs a nerf. Its a master in every role

Really? Is it a master of being a dual Gauss sniper the way IS mechs 5-10 tons lighter than it can be? Can it shoot a Gauss cannon at double the rate of fire the way a mech 25 tons lighter than it can? Can it mount 3 ER PPCs and chain gun fire them at +40% velocity? It's a master of EVERY role? So it can laser vomit at the same time it is launching LRM 60s?

Edited by Golden Vulf, 13 February 2015 - 09:01 PM.

[F4T 4L]

Golden Vulf, on 13 February 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

Timberwolf is supposed to be the finest battlemech ever made. If they nerfed it any more than it already has been nerfed, they'd have to nerf every other clan and IS mech to keep it on top.

I really don't understand what the heck you're trying to get at here.

You, and people like you, are the problem.

[Yokaiko]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 13 February 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

Bs logic. This is not a comic, its a video game. Mechs should be relatively balanced. The timberwolf is out of control and needs a nerf. Its a master in every role

It's not that good.

[FupDup]

My proposals on the subject, if anything does really happen:

FupDup, on 13 February 2015 - 08:16 PM, said:

The solutions that immediately come to mind are...

Crow:

• I can live with reduced twist radius, which is different from making it twist at a slow rate. The default radius right now is 130, I could see that being reduced to 90. That's identical to the Shadow Hawk, for reference.
  
• Also, all Crow CTs currently come with 15% faster twist. I can see that being replaced with just 0%. No, removing the positive twist speed quirk is NOT the same as giving them negative twist speed.
  
• Beyond that, I dunno. Probably look at Clan guns and equipment as a whole and see where that leaves it. Bumping up the Clan XL heat penalty may be in order, seeing how that's arguably the best advantage the Clams have, or at least close to their best trait.
  
• A caveat here is that while we're trying to balance the mech, we also need to remember that mediums in general are usually thought of as an underprivileged class. Even the mighty Shadow Hawk was still somewhat disadvantaged against heavies and assaults, back when it came out. So with these positive quirks removed from the Crow (and some general Clan tech adjustments like CXL), we might be left with a medium that can compete against higher weight classes but without being as crazytown as it is at the present moment.

Mad Cat:

• The broken JJ animation helps it spread damage. Fix that. Heck, a lot of mechs have this issue...
  
• Konniving's observation about the rear hitboxes being "too small" might or might not be true. Investigate this. Being able to run with just 2 points of rear armor without much risk probably contributes to its durability significantly (drastic armor frontloading).
  
• Like the Crow, general Clan tech adjustments as a whole can help here. Bumping up the heat penalty from side torso loss is an option here, and the Mad Cat's big side torsos would mean that this could be used against it in battle.
  
• JJ design might also need an examination, since the TBR-S has contributed quite a bit to the mech's state. If the rumors I've heard are correct, a mech using JJs is still able to turn slightly faster in the air than on the ground even though PGI supposedly fixed that a long time ago. If this is true, make JJs turn no faster in the air than on the ground, or perhaps even slightly slower turning in mid-air than on the ground. This would help indirectly reduce its mobility a bit without having actual negative agility quirks.
  
• Failing all else, some minor generic negative quirks like a bit slower cooldowns (reduced firepower/DPS) or slightly longer beam durations (more facetime = lower durability) might be needed.

But please, just please, don't make them into miniature Dire Whales. I'm still mentally scared from the Victor episode.

However, in the end I wouldn't be surprised if PGI did something of lower effort such as repeating the Victor nerfs...

Edited by FupDup, 13 February 2015 - 09:01 PM.

[Brody319]

Can fix them by
1. Fix the stormcrow's hitboxes, that beak ***** them to hell.
2. Buff other clans so they aren't useless.

boom, done.

[Golden Vulf]

They should cap the engines on IS lights to be lower as well as nerf the hitboxes on them and having all streak missiles have 0 second lock on time. And reduce the heat of all clan energy weapons by 20%. This would balance the game way better than any nerfs to the Timberwolf, because now the Ice Ferret would suddenly be comparatively better at hunting down IS mechs.

Also the Timberwolf should be allowed to equip Binary Lasers, since the Zeus can't handle them.

If the Timberwolf suddenly had lasers that were worth 2 larges, then they would bring 2 of those and not much else, laser vomit would be over!

Edited by Golden Vulf, 13 February 2015 - 09:09 PM.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

FupDup, on 13 February 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

My proposals on the subject, if anything does really happen:




However, in the end I wouldn't be surprised if PGI did something of lower effort such as repeating the Victor nerfs...

That would be a first step by giving it neg quirks. I doubt it will be enough.

[Vxheous]

Let all clan mechs be able to switch out endo and FF, give clan lights a speed quirk, and there would be more variety of clan mechs. Before people go and say "well, that's not lore correct for Omni-mechs", all current Inner sphere mechs are not "lore correct" either. All IS mechs can switch out endo/FF, switch out engine sizes, switch out weapons, when lore-wise, all of that is hardwired, you get what you get when you use a variant. It's a bit ridiculous that Omni-mechs, the most advanced mechs out there, are less customizable than IS mechs currently.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 13 February 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

Let all clan mechs be able to switch out endo and FF, give clan lights a speed quirk, and there would be more variety of clan mechs. Before people go and say "well, that's not lore correct for Omni-mechs", all current Inner sphere mechs are not "lore correct" either. All IS mechs can switch out endo/FF, switch out engine sizes, switch out weapons, when lore-wise, all of that is hardwired, you get what you get when you use a variant. It's a bit ridiculous that Omni-mechs, the most advanced mechs out there, are less customizable than IS mechs currently.

I see: you want to buff clan mechs now: Seems legit after Clans conquer one planet after another in cw.


This community i tell you <.<

[Brody319]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 13 February 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

I see: you want to buff clan mechs now: Seems legit after Clans conquer one planet after another in cw.


This community i tell you <.<

or maybe a large number of people are on clan side and thus they get a lot of ghost drops.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Golden Vulf, on 13 February 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

They should cap the engines on IS lights to be lower as well as nerf the hitboxes on them and having all streak missiles have 0 second lock on time.

In other news, the great Kerensky often mentioned an ancient SDLF technique called aiming, although for some reason it seems to be lostech for many current players.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 13 February 2015 - 09:24 PM.

[Vxheous]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 13 February 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

I see: you want to buff clan mechs now: Seems legit after Clans conquer one planet after another in cw.


This community i tell you <.<

Or look at the top merc units out there, doesn't matter if they play IS mechs, or Clan mechs, they still stomp everyone in their path. Maybe it is more to do with pilot skill and utilizing proper builds/masteries/modules and less to do with the mech.

[Golden Vulf]

This guy thinks they should nerf ceiling fans:



I haven't noticed a problem myself, but who's to say he isn't right?

[Andi Nagasia]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 13 February 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

I see: you want to buff clan mechs now: Seems legit after Clans conquer one planet after another in cw.

This community i tell you <.<

Brody319, on 13 February 2015 - 09:17 PM, said:

or maybe a large number of people are on clan side and thus they get a lot of ghost drops.

this, and we all remember then FRR pushed CJF CW & CGB back up,
also big units will do as they please, they rule CW not balance,

[Lightfoot]

I don't see either TBR or SCR as being overpowered. They are just popular and the other Clan heavy and medium mechs suck to be honest. If they nerf TBR and SCR then the Jagermech is long over due for a big nerf since it is even more popular and more powerful with the right config. I think it's just players doing what they like and not any balance issues though.

Edited by Lightfoot, 13 February 2015 - 09:31 PM.

[F4T 4L]

Golden Vulf, on 13 February 2015 - 09:24 PM, said:

This guy thinks they should nerf ceiling fans:



I haven't noticed a problem myself, but who's to say he isn't right?

Amusing. Totally irrelevant mind.

Since you already gave yourself away with the "zomg tbr should be best!" remark, suggest you regroup and consolidate your argument.

Kthxbai.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 13 February 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

Or look at the top merc units out there, doesn't matter if they play IS mechs, or Clan mechs, they still stomp everyone in their path. Maybe it is more to do with pilot skill and utilizing proper builds/masteries/modules and less to do with the mech.

And if they go clan, they mainly roll with timber and stormcorws. Wonder why