314 replies to this topic

[shadowrwolf]

PGI could care less about meta or balance.

its about marketing. It is all about the money.

hype hype hype sell sell sell.

patch to make some crazy OP meta builds then offer a sale or "Gift" like o say the valentines day sale.

this is the only explanation as to why they do what they do and why we shall never see balance.

PGI has been and always will be about the money not the community.

[xengk]

I have been running my Centurion AL with 3xLL since the LL heat cap have been move to 3, loving it.
Playing it as energy support, 3x LL, 2x LRM5. Having to downgrade a LRM10 to a LRM5 is the only drawback.

[Tarl Cabot]

If the quirks were viewed in a different way, it is the Clan mech builds having symmetric weapon setups and ability to equip more weapons/heatsink while keeping their speed/survivable w/Clan XL engines vs IS mechs which are asymmetric builds, fewer hardpoints, slower speed/survivable/lost of side torso = lost of most/all weapons vs matching Clan speeds w/IS XL engines so that the lost of a side torso is death.

I do have a question though. If the IS factions were able to take clan mechs, would the active units have clan mechs in their drop deck? Would more PUGs run with clan mechs if they had them in their mech pools? And note which chassis, from 1st to last spot. If you can, note the reason why.

Turn it around for the Clanners, if you could incorporate IS mechs into your drop deck, what would they be and what would your drop deck look like?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 15 February 2015 - 09:37 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Here are the TT stats for you clanners:

Clan LPL:
-600m range
-10 damage
-10 heat

C-ERLL:
-750m range
-10 damage
-12 heat

What you get in MWO:

Clan LPL:
-600m range
-13 damage
-10 heat

C-ERLL:
-740m range
-11 damage
-10 heat

Would you like to go back to the TT stats while you whinge about your "nerfed" clanmechs?

[shadowrwolf]

Tarl Cabot, on 15 February 2015 - 09:34 PM, said:

Turn it around for the Clanners, if you could incorporate IS mechs into your drop deck, what would they be and what would your drop deck look like?

for one a light with ECM. as it stands clan have no lights worth fielding and only 1 viable ECM boat.

Edited by shadowrwolf, 15 February 2015 - 10:42 PM.

[El Bandito]

Tarl Cabot, on 15 February 2015 - 09:34 PM, said:

I do have a question though. If the IS factions were able to take clan mechs, would the active units have clan mechs in their drop deck? Would more PUGs run with clan mechs if they had them in their mech pools? And note which chassis, from 1st to last spot. If you can, note the reason why.

Turn it around for the Clanners, if you could incorporate IS mechs into your drop deck, what would they be and what would your drop deck look like?

Yes, the IS factions WILL equip Clan mechs if possible, cause in tier lists you can find in the web, every class except Light, is led by Clan Mechs--Crow, Timbie, and Whale respectively. Only in Light Class the IS Firestarter reigns supreme.

Clans also got a Heavy ECM mech that is actually not a waste of tonnage--unlike the IS Assault D-DC.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 February 2015 - 11:04 PM.

[Johnny Z]

shadowrwolf, on 15 February 2015 - 10:41 PM, said:

for one a light with ECM. as it stands clan have no lights worth fielding and only 1 viable ECM boat.

I dont know of any IS lights than can use dual CERPPC.

El Bandito, on 15 February 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

Yes, the IS factions WILL equip Clan mechs if possible, cause in tier lists you can find in the web, every class except Light, is led by Clan Mechs--Crow, Timbie, and Whale respectively. Only in Light Class the IS Firestarter reigns supreme.

Clans also got a Heavy ECM mech that is actually not a waste of tonnage--unlike the IS Assault D-DC.

Yes firestarter is OP compared to other IS mechs.

[StonedDead]

Tarl Cabot, on 15 February 2015 - 09:34 PM, said:

Would more PUGs run with clan mechs if they had them in their mech pools? And note which chassis, from 1st to last spot. If you can, note the reason why.

I'm in a really small group, and PUG mostly. I would run a mix of clan and IS if I could. I mean if they let us, why not? I would definitely throw my Timberwolf in there somewhere. We always play as IS though, and I really have no problem being restricted to IS for my drops. I even usually stick to my IS mechs when running normal matches. I only have an Adder and Timberwolf for clan mechs anyways. I only use them every once in a while for kicks, or if I've been getting my ass kicked repeatedly by clanners and just can't stand it anymore.

Honestly, I'm more interested in putting clan tech on my IS mechs than running the clan mechs, though I really like some of them. Go underdogs!

Edited by Zekester81, 15 February 2015 - 11:13 PM.

[GadoGado]

please include the IS PPC and ER PPC

[ShinVector]

Pras Atreides, on 15 February 2015 - 11:17 PM, said:

please include the IS PPC and ER PPC

No thanks... Like we don't have enough of this scrap already.

[Punk Oblivion]

Redshirt enraged, on 15 February 2015 - 05:27 PM, said:

Oh...if you speak of that 6xPPC Stalker i brought as a example,i really got to apologize for it.

But that build existed in the past and without limitations it is a true horror - means,it´s good that thing became extinct.

To come back to the LL/LPL topic

With the actual changes you lower the heat generation...that simple means you got a higher damage output in the same time.

Combine that with the right Mech with the right Quirks...It is a invite to extreme boating.

Just a general observation is all. And I agree that 6 PPC's is bad.

But even if you fire 6 LL's at the same time, the burn time is so long that the chance of all the damage hitting a single spot is low, let alone getting all the damage ON the enemy mech. And even at a threshold of 3, 6 LL take a full second to put out that 60 damage, so it spreads and can be twisted off. and LL's have a LONG cooldown time when your fighting it out in an intense battle haha.

I would actually be ok with LL's going up to 4. I think LPL's should stay at 3 though, their burn time is much shorter and can be more pin-pointed.

As for clan vs IS, I hope clans get quirks for their crappier mechs, it is only fair.

Also I don;t know about taking Clan mechs in my IS drop deck, but I would sure take some Clan weapons for my IS mechs!

[NocturnalBeast]

shadowrwolf, on 15 February 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

PGI could care less about meta or balance.

its about marketing. It is all about the money.

hype hype hype sell sell sell.

patch to make some crazy OP meta builds then offer a sale or "Gift" like o say the valentines day sale.

this is the only explanation as to why they do what they do and why we shall never see balance.

PGI has been and always will be about the money not the community.

Businesses are always about the money, or they do not stay in business.

[CHH Badkarma]

KursedVixen, on 15 February 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

I wonder if I can get my money back for the clan packs now that their worth LESS.

I would not call them worth "less". It takes a higher degree of dedication to strictly pilot clan mechs. Most people do not want to be that limited. Also takes dedication to suffer through PGI's often extreme attempts at balance. They cannot/will not give the IS the numbers advantage to balance the game so they use other methods. Sadly, listening to the meta comp teams that make up a very small percentage of the player base is one of those fails. That is likely do to the pipe dream PGI has of this game being some sort of E sport one day.

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 15 February 2015 - 11:56 PM.

[Nik Reaper]

This is beautiful, I hope they keep it like the Ac2 , the 6xERL or 6xLL stalker and awsome are the mechs that are most likely to show if 2x27 damage with a 1 to 0.75 sec burn is overpowered for what it is , and so far I have played against such builds several times and can not say overpowered in the true sence , sure some mechs might need to have the quirk numbers reduced now that the volley damage with out a penalty goes up , but I haven't seen anything I would call abuse of this.

More so as fireing 4 at once adds the heat penaly equal to fireing 2 weapons over the limit wich is not ignorable.

[xxREVxx]

Cooling down the IS lasers now...Really, Paul? Another slap in our face?
It is obvious that a certain guy in charge of PGI favors his widdle IS mechs, plain and simple. Right along with all of their idiotic quirks and hitbox deformities. Heard you guys are big fans of the Succession Wars but just couldn't pass up on the clan tech cash cow.

Let's see,..what else?
-Mercs role in this game is completely out of hand and broken, just look at the map.
http://mwomercs.com/...lanet-from-csj/ see post #14...it's a potential solution to that pariah but nobody's trying to hear that.

-IS tech is outgunning, outrunning, and outcooling clan tech.

What's next? God-mode?

If the IS/Clan balance is too tough for you to figure out?
Remove the clans.
Reset the map.
Refund the money to people who have paid for clan tech.

or fix the game sometime before the actual 31st century ffs.

[M3 SABLE]

Feel bad for people that bought the clan packs

IS mechs are now more fun to play, and arguably more powerful, and definitely more versatile than any Clan toy.

This is pretty hilarious.

[Nightshade24]

Johnny Z, on 15 February 2015 - 12:33 AM, said:

I fully expect many easy mode clan pilots to quit and or cry rivers when the omni mech vrs battlemech is more balanced. They didnt want a good fight to begin with.

I wonder what the win, loss ratio is, Clan vrs IS. I also wonder how many Clan players thought that was a fair fight and balanced?

Atm? CW is not exactly a good sample.

No Elo in MM. Nothing stops a team of 12 people PUGS of IS players who played less then 5 minutes of MW: O (tutorial) and a team of 12 people Group drop who played for 2 years.

Then you also got the player base thing, Clans could lose a planet to an IS faction because even though they got a 12 man good team on there side and won every match against the IS pugs, there could be 11 other IS teams who won against the planet in the form of ghost drops or so.

Or sudden "take planet out from the jaws of capture" on the last hour till cease fire.


There's a reason there's no 10 verse 12 in MW:O and it isn't because PGi sucks at lore.

In my unit we do quite a lot of 1 verse 1 (zellbrigen) and 3 verse 3's and 5 verse 5's.

We quickly saw mechs that had quite serious quirks (Huggin Raven, Thunderbolt 9S, Banshee, etc) are quite better then the clan counterpart (even when comparing to a heavier chassis)

I do not really care what allegiance is nor your biases. What is my main concern is the neglection clan mechs are receiving in MW: O.


I do not care if it'll be a 10 verse 12 in CW or a 5 verse 12 or 5 verse 8 or what have you.
I do not care if they 100% restore clan tech to normal values with no quirks or keep it how it is with quirks (T1-T5 quirks for respected mechs)

But all I want is not a single IS mech that may or may not be smaller, lighter, or cheaper yet do the firepower of 2-5 clan equivilents.

I do not mind if the thunderbolt 9S is a ER PPC mech but what I do mind is that it is better then the warhawk or awesome.



Personally I want to see the Clan lasers get a nerf that there max range and effective range are much much closer. meaning the damage drops quite fast after the effective range and thus isn't the sniper death laser of doom some say. That and maybe add beam durration then finally lwoer the heat because I want to have a support weapon for my mech that isn't hotter then my primary weapon.

Atm in game there is no point having 3+ er medium lasers over 1 large pulse laser. (less heatsinks + large pulse laser is better then 3+ er medium lasers + heatsinks).

I do not want an "easy mode click point adventure" (If I wanted that I would just have bought the thunderbolt 9S durring the sale... even then it isn't that easy. an idiot behind the stick would still lose to an experienced player)


I just want a better balance and the devs themself have stated that they are a bit more biased to the IS factions. Most of the guys at PGI like IS mechs more then Clan.

I'm not saying they want to make themself have the easy mode. I am just saying that there perspective is a tad bent to there perspective.

The same for you. You like and play IS a lot and you think "Clanners" asking for the others to be nerfed or them to be buffed for the name of BALANCE you think they are just cry babies who want a easy mode.

For vice versa the same applies, people who play clans who find a thread asking a clan nerf or IS buff for the name of balance looks like a cry baby asking for easy mode.


Even though statistics and hard numbers point out and support the clan side a bit in some fields. (ER PPC verse C ER PPC) (Quirk verse none quirk) (None ES / FF clan mechs verse IS "bad" mechs). etc.


I personally think the LRM's and (to a degree) SRM's are pretty ballanced.

Streaks could get checked but that doesn't really matter.

However ballistics do kinda need quirks on certain mechs (Nova, stormcrow, ice ferret, adder ,kitfox, timberwolf, Mad dog (specificly the C gauss) etc etc etc.

Energy... wouldn't mind if quirks do most of the ballancing however if not I would like those weapons checked...

[Karl Streiger]

Don't understand ---- could live with Large Laser and ER Large Laser - but why the IS Large Pulse Laser.

Turn out that the Wubverine is even without LPL Quirks is better as before below 410m.

[Widowmaker1981]

*runs to smufys to rebuild banshee*

Oh my word, the slaughter will commence now. 4x LPLs fired in pairs from the shoulder mounts was devastating. Now it will be one group of 3 and one group of 2.. and occasional 55 point pretty much PPFLD alphas. (Human reaction time doesn't really allow for twisting damage from a beam that only has a 0.6s duration)

Man, people that still think clans (yes, i mean TBR and SCR) are still overpowered are SO STUPID.

[Redshirt enraged]

Pras Atreides, on 15 February 2015 - 11:17 PM, said:

please include the IS PPC and ER PPC

Punk Oblivion, on 15 February 2015 - 11:25 PM, said:

Just a general observation is all. And I agree that 6 PPC's is bad.

But even if you fire 6 LL's at the same time, the burn time is so long that the chance of all the damage hitting a single spot is low, let alone getting all the damage ON the enemy mech. And even at a threshold of 3, 6 LL take a full second to put out that 60 damage, so it spreads and can be twisted off. and LL's have a LONG cooldown time when your fighting it out in an intense battle haha.

The CT of my poor Shadowhawk will tell you another story after he was introduced to a 6xLL STK-4N on Frozen City. That guy nearly onehitted me with that thing.

Punk Oblivion, on 15 February 2015 - 11:25 PM, said:

As for clan vs IS, I hope clans get quirks for their crappier mechs, it is only fair.

Also I don;t know about taking Clan mechs in my IS drop deck, but I would sure take some Clan weapons for my IS mechs!

About Clan Quirks i got mixed feelings...you know...the damageoutput downward spiral i wrote some posts ago...but thats just me. ^^

May i ask which clanweapon you would install?

Widowmaker1981, on 16 February 2015 - 05:06 AM, said:

Man, people that still think clans (yes, i mean TBR and SCR) are still overpowered are SO STUPID.

sarcasm mode on*

But they are...they got to be...because,because...it´s lore.

sarcasm mode off*

You know...haters gonna hate.

Edited by Redshirt enraged, 16 February 2015 - 05:47 AM.