50 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

So, Weekend update had a pretty nice fade over at the end that gave us one of the most accurate size indicators of any preview


And in this case, I think they got the overall scale pretty spot on.

The Panther
-Similar in size to the Firestarter, with less bulky shoulders. Arms look like they will probably not be quite as good for intercepting incoming fire, but it benefits from having what looks like will be tiny ST hitboxes. Will be VERY shocked if it doesn't run XLs excellently, even without being able to attain lagshield speeds.

The more I see about the PNT, the more I like it, though it's limited hardpoint placement, lack of ECM and lower top speed will likely keep it from ever catching on at High Elo play, it at least does not appear to be DoA. Looking at the initial quirks of the 10 series, it should be an effective light sniper/harasser.

The Enforcer
- Just a skosh taller than the Centy, but much narrower. Arms are not the ape hanger variety that serve the Centurion/ShadowHawk/Griffin/Wolverine so well, So between that and the shape of the torso, I can't really predict it's XL viability until I see it's actual hitboxes.

Being skinny, overall, is nice, but the shape of the torso itself, could still make the STs more vulnerable than desired.....or be another Orion/Kintaro/Hellbringer, with far too easily hit CT.
Only other game play concern I see from the external model, is it has more leg than a Victoria's Secret model. Being a moderately armed, mobile Jumper, I foresee those legs eating LOT of fire, much like Quickdraws and Summoners tend to take a larger amount of leg hits than average.

Still, the size is right, but I do wish the arms were a little bulkier, especially the lower arms, to better guard the torso. Also would not have minded if they had fudged the hardpoint in the torso a little higher. Gun placement means that ridge humping is out, and jumpsniping will expose a lot of the mech. Will probably have to work as a hit and run skirmisher.

And the head and RA are still ugly. But this is more about the gameplay of the models.

Any thoughts on probable hitboxes?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 February 2015 - 09:22 AM.

[Malleus011]

Finally, a correctly scaled medium.

Now if they'll just fix the head ...

[Fate 6]

Panther is going to be nearly perfect.

I'm also worried about the STs on the Enforcer, and have that same feeling of them being either way too big or too small (so CT is massive). Hopefully the XL will work and the CT won't be too big, because it's already gimped enough by hardpoints and quirks. And wow are those legs big.

EDIT: Also, I'm not a fan of their movement animations. No show of power.

Edited by Fate 6, 14 February 2015 - 09:21 AM.

[Deathlike]

"inb4 Enforcer is too big"



My opinion honestly is that the Enforce will be the king of the 50-tonners. There's no logical reasoning to it at all.. but I think power creep is really going to be self-evident IMO.

[Alistair Winter]

Malleus011, on 14 February 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

Finally, a correctly scaled medium.

Now if they'll just fix the head .. adjust the size of the Centurion, Trebuchet, Griffin, Wolverine and Shadowhawk accordingly.

I agree


Actually, I agree about the head as well.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 14 February 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

"inb4 Enforcer is too big"



My opinion honestly is that the Enforce will be the king of the 50-tonners. There's no logical reasoning to it at all.. but I think power creep is really going to be self-evident IMO.

.6 second cooldown ac10?

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 February 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

.6 second cooldown ac10?

From the Phoenix Pack... the Shadowhawk got the most play out of all of them.

I believe the Resistance Pack will follow that trend... intentionally/unintentionally or otherwise.

[Brody319]

It will have to fight my StockHawks!

[Fate 6]

Second time through the video I'm noticing how awkward the Panther looks in-game. That weird almost bowlegged side-step walk combined with those super long skinny arms make it look like the stereotypical awkward teen. And that super low PPC mount just makes me sad. I'm optimistic that the 4E right arm variant will have a super cool wristband of lasers. FIST OF JUSTICE!

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 14 February 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

From the Phoenix Pack... the Shadowhawk got the most play out of all of them.

I believe the Resistance Pack will follow that trend... intentionally/unintentionally or otherwise.

Somehow...I'm not quite seeing that perfect blend of perfect model/hitboxes, hardpoints and mobility. Maybe if I squint a little harder......

Fate 6, on 14 February 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

Second time through the video I'm noticing how awkward the Panther looks in-game. That weird almost bowlegged side-step walk combined with those super long skinny arms make it look like the stereotypical awkward teen. And that super low PPC mount just makes me sad. I'm optimistic that the 4E right arm variant will have a super cool wristband of lasers. FIST OF JUSTICE!

I will call it my StinkFist.

[NeoAres]

Both the firestarter and the panther could stand to be about 15-20% bigger IMHO. Keep in mind that these are 35 tonners, practically mediums. They shouldn't be nearly 50% the height of 50 tonners

Edited by NeoAres, 14 February 2015 - 09:46 AM.

[Fate 6]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 February 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Somehow...I'm not quite seeing that perfect blend of perfect model/hitboxes, hardpoints and mobility. Maybe if I squint a little harder......

It might get the hitboxes and mobility, but I'm pretty sure there's no combination of hardpoints that will save it. They're just too poorly placed. The Cent and Hunchback both have the right placement of hardpoints on the variants that are similar. The Enforcer weapons are too low and spread out so it can't hill hump or peekaboo. Should have given it super-quirks.

EDIT: Those hitboxes you updated the OP with are about what I'd expect. The Enforcer will never see competitive play unless it gets insane quirks. Panther might actually be competitive, if not just very effective in PUGs.

Edited by Fate 6, 14 February 2015 - 09:42 AM.

[FupDup]

NeoAres, on 14 February 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

Both the firestarter and the panther could stand to be about 15-20% bigger IMHO. Keep in mind that these are 35 tonners, practically mediums

Lights are consistently the least popular class, barring some occasional fluctuations. They don't need blanket nerfs.

[Bishop Steiner]

NeoAres, on 14 February 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

Both the firestarter and the panther could stand to be about 15-20% bigger IMHO. Keep in mind that these are 35 tonners, practically mediums

correction, nearly every other class of mech needs to be scaled down. Average mech height should be 10-12 meters with a few hitting 14. Lights are overall the closest to accurate.

[Tennex]

I would love to see enforcer compared to the vindicator and wolverine

Edited by Tennex, 14 February 2015 - 09:48 AM.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 February 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

correction, nearly every other class of mech needs to be scaled down. Average mech height should be 10-12 meters with a few hitting 14. Lights are overall the closest to accurate.

That would have almost the same effect to be honest (just from the opposite direction). The higher classes are usually doing well enough (mediums fluctuate often though), so I don't see a reason to blanket-buff them like that. The majority of mediums and certain heavies (Catapult, Quickdraw, maybe Dragon) could use a little bit of shrinking, but the rest seem fine for current gameplay.

Edited by FupDup, 14 February 2015 - 09:49 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 14 February 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

That would have almost the same effect to be honest (just from the opposite direction). The higher classes are usually doing well enough (mediums fluctuate often though), so I don't see a reason to blanket-buff them like that. The majority of mediums and certain heavies (Catapult, Quickdraw, maybe Dragon) could use a little bit of shrinking, but the rest seem fine for current gameplay.

It actually wouldn't.

The reason why is it doesn't actually resize anything targeting wise from the pilots perspective. How hard is a slow Blackjack to hit? Not very. Lights and fast mediums would be unaffected at all, and only a few very fast jumpers would gain much benefit from the heavies and Assaults.

Lights don't magically become easier to hit, because from the pilots PoV, they are the same. Respective sizes between classes doesn't change that.

It's not about buffing or nerfing anything. It's just a statement of fact about the scaling. People say the Lights "need" to be bigger, when the reality is, from the scaling side, it's the rest that are oversized.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 February 2015 - 10:01 AM.

[NeoAres]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 February 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

correction, nearly every other class of mech needs to be scaled down. Average mech height should be 10-12 meters with a few hitting 14. Lights are overall the closest to accurate.

okay, either/or

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 February 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

...
It's not about buffing or nerfing anything. It's just a statement of fact about the scaling. People say the Lights "need" to be bigger, when the reality is, from the scaling side, it's the rest that are oversized.

How are we defining "oversized?" Honest question, sorta.

Honestly, from my own perspective, it is about balance/buffing/nerfing only. A Quickdraw has less armor and firepower than assaults and larger heavies, so it should be a bit physically smaller to compensate for that. Most mediums (barring the Crow) have less armor and firepower than heavies and assaults, so they should be significantly smaller. A Cicada only has a little bit more armor and weapon space than a Jenner, so it should only be slightly larger in size. Etc.


Is this about physics or something? If it is, then we already lose by default because we're fighting giant space robots across the galaxy.

If it's about the Tabletop scaling, then I can post a picture of a Griffin being almost identical in dimensions to a reseen Battlemaster, or Locusts towering over heavies. This is the reason why "55 ton mech size" became an infamous phrase...

Edited by FupDup, 14 February 2015 - 10:10 AM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Tennex, on 14 February 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

I would love to see enforcer compared to the vindicator and wolverine

Someone with skill could Photoshop it into this pic: