88 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Lily from animove, on 15 February 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

russion population thinks its fine what he does, so go democracy!

Putin is pretty great at what he does. The problem is that what he does isn't very nice to those on the receiving end.

[RedDragon]

Vassago Rain, on 15 February 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Putin is pretty great at what he does. The problem is that what he does isn't very nice to those on the receiving end.

Putin basically is the Russian George W. Bush. He caters to the Russian hardliners who think the country has been wronged. Russia politically and economically is in a state of decline (and has been for a while) and Putin is the guy who shows that he doesn't give a f*ck and who shows strength. In a similar way to Bush leading the US to war after 9/11 to demonstrate power during weak times, Putin doesn't give way in the Ukrainian crisis. He can't back down because he is seen as the strong leader the new Russia needs (and that's why confronting him with embargoes and threats is not half as wise as US- and EU politicians may think).
But the same way as Bush, Putin doesn't stand for all of Russia, maybe not even the majority. What is different in this scenario is that 1) Russian people are more likely to swallow their criticism down because they fear to get problems and 2) the Russian media doesn't show citizens criticizing Putin as freely as the US media did with Bush.

[Heffay]

Not to mention the fears of acute polonium poisoning... that tends to cut down on criticism.

[Phlinger]

It's easy to think of America as an unruly teenager on the block. But, in the long run, America only wants and I know it will sound corny, Liberty and Justice for All. We deliver more aid and food to other countries than any other country. The driving force behind America is so that anyone, anywhere, no matter what part of the world you live in can have food, medicine and can raise a family and live in safety.

Many other countries in the world don't share this view and many see America as a military might. Our military is only used for defense of our lifestyle and to help other countries when they need help. Many of America's politician's view themselves as a police force. In today's world-wide structure, with countries having nuclear capacity and technology levels, many young or old countries need to be taught how to handle the newer technologies and they need to know how not to handle them, for the safety of the world we all live in.

With that said, with Capitalism, Democracy, Communism, Religion and so forth, there are MANY variables which cause people to not see eye to eye and no one is going to bow down and declare world peace in a day. There are many inside of every country that fears change, America has these as well, many just don't want change and many profit off of change and no change. How do you balance those? Well, that's the issues causing the majority of the friction between countries in this day and age.

Think of America as a bee's nest. We spread out and pollinate the flowers, err countries, offering them help when they need, but when you poke the nest, or those allied to the nest, you get a swarm of bees that won't stop until the hive declares it's no longer worth it or the enemy has stopped moving. That is the way it's supposed to work in theory, but many politicians inside of America as well as other countries tend to run things with their own agenda, and then things get skewed with diatribe, lies, slander and a general mistrust for whatever they represent. Every country has them.

With the media working against or for different governments it's easy to bend the will of those watching, but then again, Media is another weapon that countries have begun to employ. I live in America, but get most of my news from Science Journals posted from around the world, that is the closest to honest truth that I have been able to find so far. I refuse to watch American news, like others should also be wary of their own news in other countries. You have the internet, use it for more than games.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Lily from animove, on 15 February 2015 - 01:22 AM, said:

Yes poeple are allowed to vote, but how many of those voted gouvernments actually rule for the needs of their population?

I cannot speak for other areas (or other states) - but here in southern Alaska, any politician that does not... does not stay in office long.

Benefits of being a relatively small community though

Case in point - for all she is sitting in the media, good ol' whats-her-face no longer does anything up here.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 15 February 2015 - 10:16 AM.

[RedDragon]

Ronyn, on 15 February 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

Many other countries in the world don't share this view and many see America as a military might. Our military is only used for defense of our lifestyle and to help other countries when they need help.

I would be careful with this assumption. The US military is, before all, used to further the American interests in the world. And that, basically, means global domination. Every time America "helped" other nations, it was in their interest too. During WW2 bases were established in Europe and Japan, later on in Korea, on the Balkan, Afghanistan etc. America used its influence to spread military bases all around the world, helping it to stay a global player and to be able to defend American interests over the whole wide world.
Yes, America did good deeds liberating Europe during WW2 or giving humanitarian aid in Kosovo etc. No one can deny that. But those actions are far from being purely altruistic. Every time America helps other nations, pros and cons are calculated and weighted against each other. They days when "Liberty and Justice" where the lone driving factors are long gone. On the other hand, you can't judge the US for this behavior because it arguably is necessary to stay in the game and stay a global player. But one should not be deceived by questionable pretenses that are spread by the government of any state.

[Pht]

PaintedWolf, on 15 February 2015 - 12:11 AM, said:

India and Pakistan are about ready to Nuke each other over the Kashmir, a largely, worthless piece of rock. Only the US- THE YOUNGEST NATION=prevents this. How fair is that?

Gee, I'd think, say, southern sudan or something newer would qualify as the youngest. Silly facts and meaningful discussion!

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There are many more situations like this the United States has to deal with, where if we fail, maybe billions die. ... You really put a teenager in charge of that? Messed up man super ,messed up.

Apples to oranges.

The amoung of time a government has been in operation or a society has existed DOES NOT equate to how much it knows or how well or poorly it does things.

PW, why this thread? Is there something in particular that caused you to post it? Is there any particular thing that tipped this off?

---
Disclaimer - yep, I'm an american. That doesn't mean I think we've always been right or that I agree with whatever is being done in our name. That also doesn't mean that I think we're mostly or always wrong, either.
---

Kalimaster, on 15 February 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

So, if this thread is on a national hate trip, here is a peace of my mind from a religious stand point. (Sorry Mods, please pardon me for doing this)

GOD MADE ALL MEN EQUAL

It's shameful that we have to say these things. Emphasis obviously added. What a delusion is the idea that only certain ideas can and should be engaged in and discussed in the public square, even in places that otherwise don't exist to discuss such topics. Things have a habit of popping up where not expected.

At the least, it's thoughtless and ignorant to censor these things, instead of, say, at least re-directing the discussion to where it's proper.

At worst, it's hateful, irrational, and bigoted to squash any discussion by those who don't believe in the approved ideology. Even the most horrible stuff should be discussed from time to time, because it takes public argument to crush those things - or show if their classification is wrong.

It used to be you had to say "Caesar Kurios" in order to be accepted as "proper" in public - it was the "civic duty." That's where it started. It didn't end any better.
---

Painted, I really am interested what caused you to start this thread.

Edited by Pht, 15 February 2015 - 11:08 AM.

[Sizzles]

I vote we nuke everything to level the playing field.

Its not fair that some nations have a tech advantage on others.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Pht, on 15 February 2015 - 11:02 AM, said:

It used to be you had to say "Caesar Kurios" in order to be accepted as "proper" in public - it was the "civic duty." That's where it started. It didn't end any better.

Psst, Pht
That just goes to a blank google page.

[Tarzilman]

Ronyn, on 15 February 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

We deliver more aid and food to other countries than any other country.

Yes. After you brought "democracy" to them.

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The driving force behind America is so that anyone, anywhere, no matter what part of the world you live in can have food, medicine and can raise a family and live in safety.

Good example! Not to forget the drug industry which is very interested in a constant delivering of medicine to countries, that have been brought "democracy" or have suffered under the consequences of the free enterprise system.

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Many other countries in the world don't share this view and many see America as a military might. Our military is only used for defense of our lifestyle...

You say it. It's your lifestyle and of course you can protect it. Other countries, other culture, other behaviour. Not everyone has to be like you!

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...and to help other countries when they need help.

Again, many countries wouldn't need your help if you had left them alone in their own country!

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Many of America's politician's view themselves as a police force. In today's world-wide structure, with countries having nuclear capacity and technology levels, many young or old countries need to be taught how to handle the newer technologies and they need to know how not to handle them, for the safety of the world we all live in.

No, simply no. They just have to get rid of all nuclear weapons all over the world. I'm pretty sure that most ppl don't want any nuclear warheads even to exist!

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With that said, with Capitalism, Democracy, Communism, Religion and so forth, there are MANY variables which cause people to not see eye to eye and no one is going to bow down and declare world peace in a day.

I totally agree with you in that point!

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There are many inside of every country that fears change, America has these as well, many just don't want change and many profit off of change and no change. How do you balance those? Well, that's the issues causing the majority of the friction between countries in this day and age.

Nobody wants to get forced to change something, that's the point. We and our leaders are all able to speak with each other. You can talk about changing, share expreience, goods, resources. If there's a country you totally not agree with, let them alone, maybe they just need more time.
Words like "We have a right to develop weapons-grade uranium" are either a complete fabrication or a backlash of another countries enforcement not to do so while they have over 2000 warheads themselfes. That's absolutely ambivalent, cheeky and imho not the right way a countrie with a totally different culture shoud be treatet.
Some nuclear-warheads to have a good argument as an ace up one's sleeve? Well, maybe I could live with that. But look at the nuclear overkill we have right now.

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Think of America as a bee's nest. We spread out and pollinate the flowers, err countries, offering them help when they need...

You know, some bee colonies just don't tolerate each other. :-D

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...but when you poke the nest, or those allied to the nest, you get a swarm of bees that won't stop until the hive declares it's no longer worth it or the enemy has stopped moving.

Sure. Pretty understandable reaction. But normally those bee colonies that don't like each other stay in their own colonies or countries.

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That is the way it's supposed to work in theory, but many politicians inside of America as well as other countries tend to run things with their own agenda, and then things get skewed with diatribe, lies, slander and a general mistrust for whatever they represent. Every country has them.

Absolutely. I'll say it again, my negative mood is not directed to the ppl of america, but to those politicians, lobbyists and chairman of several companies or banks. We just don't need those intriguer beeings who are aiming for more and more money and power.

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With the media working against or for different governments it's easy to bend the will of those watching, but then again, Media is another weapon that countries have begun to employ. I live in America, but get most of my news from Science Journals posted from around the world, that is the closest to honest truth that I have been able to find so far. I refuse to watch American news, like others should also be wary of their own news in other countries. You have the internet, use it for more than games.

Well than you have your point and I'm ok with that. But I'm pretty surprised we both didn't read at least similar things.

Edited by Tarzilman, 16 February 2015 - 06:44 AM.

[Hex Pallett]

I'm just gonna stay away from this one and recommend everyone to just take your time read some actual history books, especially those regarding geopolitics and financial development, instead of making judgments based on internet gossip and news. It's far more interesting than Game of Thrones if you know how to read between the lines.

But no, calling US "an unruly teen on steroid" and unable to take "global responsibility", whatever that means, makes you sound about as intelligent (albeit less stupid) as a star'n stripe-wearing redneck yelling "the only good communist is a dead communist".

Edited by Helmstif, 15 February 2015 - 03:56 PM.

[Domoneky]

[bossclan]

What America should do is stop sending aid and money to all the other countries that don't like America .

Maybe then we could get all the national dept paid back up, secure the borders and keep Americans safe.

[Vassago Rain]

Ronyn, on 15 February 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

It's easy to think of America as an unruly teenager on the block. But, in the long run, America only wants and I know it will sound corny, Liberty and Justice for All. We deliver more aid and food to other countries than any other country. The driving force behind America is so that anyone, anywhere, no matter what part of the world you live in can have food, medicine and can raise a family and live in safety.

Many other countries in the world don't share this view and many see America as a military might. Our military is only used for defense of our lifestyle and to help other countries when they need help. Many of America's politician's view themselves as a police force. In today's world-wide structure, with countries having nuclear capacity and technology levels, many young or old countries need to be taught how to handle the newer technologies and they need to know how not to handle them, for the safety of the world we all live in.

With that said, with Capitalism, Democracy, Communism, Religion and so forth, there are MANY variables which cause people to not see eye to eye and no one is going to bow down and declare world peace in a day. There are many inside of every country that fears change, America has these as well, many just don't want change and many profit off of change and no change. How do you balance those? Well, that's the issues causing the majority of the friction between countries in this day and age.

Think of America as a bee's nest. We spread out and pollinate the flowers, err countries, offering them help when they need, but when you poke the nest, or those allied to the nest, you get a swarm of bees that won't stop until the hive declares it's no longer worth it or the enemy has stopped moving. That is the way it's supposed to work in theory, but many politicians inside of America as well as other countries tend to run things with their own agenda, and then things get skewed with diatribe, lies, slander and a general mistrust for whatever they represent. Every country has them.

With the media working against or for different governments it's easy to bend the will of those watching, but then again, Media is another weapon that countries have begun to employ. I live in America, but get most of my news from Science Journals posted from around the world, that is the closest to honest truth that I have been able to find so far. I refuse to watch American news, like others should also be wary of their own news in other countries. You have the internet, use it for more than games.

America has been making open war on sandy countries for 16 years now, bro.

Your army hasn't fought a defensive battle in my lifetime.

[PaintedWolf]

Why is Imperialism necessarily wrong?

In an age of Global Warming and Nuclear War, we need an Ultra-Imperialist to keep world peace and stability.

http://en.wikipedia....tra-imperialism

The theory that Marxist theorist Kautsky was right, that one day there would emerge a super-power that could tame capitalism, if it wanted and Lenin was wrong.

Now we have the US Hyper-Power.

http://en.wikipedia....ower#Hyperpower

So what is my problem with the US? It is acting like a teenager. It has forgotten lessons of the past that lead it to greatness. Seniority, authority, power-playing, bravado, discipline, hard work values are replacing values based on idealism, innovation, science, invention, art, culture, freedom, liberalism. It is like watching that nice guy artist turn into a jock bully because he grew some muscles. Religion over science. Experience over rationality, creativity and knowledge. Aggression over tolerance and patience.

This is what the Old World followed and this is why the United States beat them. Now as we age, we fall into the same trap. Putting the old over the young. Dismissing new generations to the point of ruthlessness and militancy. A taste of power, and experience and age and we are just like the older nations, falling into the same traps that brought us down.

We need to go back to who we truly are and stop putting up this front. We are better then this.

The Entire World needs us now more then ever. There is ISIS. There is the Ukraine and Kashmir. The threat of Nuclear War did not disappear with the USSR. There are bio-weapons. There is the Grey Goo, bad AI and Singularity. The world needs a smart, responsible, idealistic, romantic, realistic, bold in action yet kind in deed super-power or we can all die. Global Warming and Pandemics.

The US has always been based on freedom over power. Matters are determined by argument, evidence, passion and reason, not authority, age and personal experience. We are losing who we are because we felt the rush, like a teenager, in getting our way through brute force instead of thinking our way through things.

If the US falls, it will be like when Rome fell, but instead the entire world may be thrown into a Dark Age which we may never recover from. The world needs a Hero, not a Dictator, and the US must make a choice.

[JamboJuice]

We all know how this is going to end anyway...

[PaintedWolf]

Let me tell you a speculative could be completely wrong secret. As a Japanese-American, Japan has a major love/hate relation with the US. They forced ports open with their Black Fleet, they also ended the oppressive shogunate indirectly and brought us into the modern world.

It took a lot to bring the US into world war 2. Japan saved some Jews, creating a community because they heard they could "make money".

http://xenon.stanfor.../Kobe/Kobe.html

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The Japanese accepted a large influx of Jews into Kobe during World War II. Even though Japan was allied with {Godwin's Law} Germany, the community of Kobe helped save Holocaust refugees from 1940 to 1941. Japan's policy toward the Jews was much different than that of their allies. Japanese in charge of Jewish refugees knew little about Jewish customs and practices; they took action based on the belief that Jews are very influential in the world. In particular, they modeled their view of Jews after Jacob Schiff, a Jewish financier who raised huge funds for Japan during the Russo-Japanese War in 1904.

Japan was technically supposed to attack the USSR during World War 2. If they did so, the USSR would have fallen and the Reich would have won the war. Instead they attacked the US at Pearl Harbor. Japanese society, like most, was divided, and the Emperor had to play a very careful balancing act vs the militaristic Showa regime that represented many ancient Samurai families.

The US entered the war, the sleeping giant was awakened, and the Reich lost. Was it good or bad? We may never know for sure. Would history have been better off, if Japan honored its written, contracted and signed word and attacked the USSR instead of Pearl Harbor? Why was the Showa regime so stupid? Why did Japan really save Jews, does it not know, like was said in the Interview by the fake Kim Jong-Un that "Jews are bad luck." (Then again the Japanese consider black cats good luck, goes to show what they know. ) Why get this young sleeping giant involved in world affairs at all?

Many will argue the United States should have stayed isiolationist. Better to let the Reich, the Soviets, the Jihadists, the Monarchists rule the day and have their wars using WMDs. There is always a chance they were right I suppose.

In other words, America has to rule the world because its your responsibility.



America is responsible for the world now. If they retreat, we will all die.

[Jagger225]

I have skimmed over some of these posts simply because they were pretty biased and held a very "Media-Minded" approach where they were sipping someone's Kool-aid, if you know what I mean.

Long and short people - don't believe everything you hear from a news channel.

CNN and FOX NEWS don't always have the right answers or even the right facts some of the time. I only use those two as the primaries because they often seem the most sided.

USA was founded because of a PILGRIMAGE. Read about that - our historical founding (I am American) and move from there.

I'll continue to pray for our nation and try to change it with my votes.

[Heffay]

Jagger225, on 15 February 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

USA was founded because of a PILGRIMAGE. Read about that - our historical founding (I am American) and move from there.

"Founded"? I don't think that is right.

[PaintedWolf]

Founded by Native Americans, and the Megafauna before them. There were Sloths larger then Elephants, in Hawaii Owls as tall as men, in the mainland, Wolves as large as horses. The Native Americans came in and wiped them out.

Then Europeans brought disease, and wiped them out mostly. The North East Coast natives were not primitives living in huts. They had Long-House Cabins and semi-democratic governments and crops. When Pilgrims were brought by guides, they found log cabin houses already built. Farms fenced off and flattened. The Natives already killed. It must have seemed a gift from providence.

Perhaps these sacrifices don't have to mean something, but they should, and we can choose to have them do so, if we want.