70 replies to this topic

[CocoaJin]

I've decided to take on the challenge of running armed mechs without the torso lock. What I noticed was an unnatural and unintuitive focus of our view on the torso cross-hair...but it dawned on me that the visual focus should stay the arm cross-hair.

I won't say I have an opinion yet, but I'd like to explore the possibility of de-focusing our view on the torso cross-hair and instead, provide a panning pilot's view that is locked to the arms. I believe the result would be a smoother feel to the arm cross-hair, especially with respect/reference to the background.

Right now, it feels my view is tied to the arms with a rubber band/bungee. The delay in the perspective of my view with respect to the movement of the cross hairs just seems unnatural and throws an odd variable pan rate into the mix as I swing my arm cross hair about.

I'd rather the ability to pan my view relative to the arms cross hair without needing to equip a TrackIR...though I plan to get one again at some point.

Edited by CocoaJin, 02 February 2015 - 01:46 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

I never use arm lock....never understood why so many people voluntarily gimp their range. And aiming it seems easy enough to me.

[Reverendk]

Long time advocates of the High Elo Low Drag fiscal restructuring plan and game guides already know this, but I can't imagine using arm lock. If that's your jam, then do you, as is pursuant to the High Elo lifestyle and philosophy, though I suspect that increase in side to side motion of the camera would make motion sickness a bigger problem for more people if your camera doesn't index off of the torso crosshairs. The delay comes from the fact that the arms move faster than the torso twists which is better for mechs with arm weapons or people that like to go hard in the yard.

You can look left and right and all around if you hold down the left control button, often abbreviated "Ctrl" if you're short on time.

Try using the control "Ctrl" key on your keboard.

Cheers,
RK
High Elo Low Drag Collective Gaming Group for the Family Friendly Playing of High Intensity E-Games clan Clan

[Artgathan]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 February 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

I never use arm lock....never understood why so many people voluntarily gimp their range. And aiming it seems easy enough to me.

It's helpful to align your crosshairs for the money-shot, and the slower reticule movement (due to your crosshair speed now being tied to your torso instead of your arms) can allow for "finer" aiming.

That said, I prefer to let my arms swing free. Shooting two different targets at once always makes me feel awesome. I got it up to three at a time once (using LRMs). I felt like a god of the battlefield.

[Fate 6]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 February 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

I never use arm lock....never understood why so many people voluntarily gimp their range. And aiming it seems easy enough to me.

I never used arm lock until recently. 2 reasons: first, arm lock has a toggle button now which it didn't always have, so you can effectively switch during combat. Second, laser builds are that much more effective if all your damage is completely focused, and locking the arms allows for less wasted damage against moving targets.

[terrycloth]

I've always used arm lock because my first few mechs all had effectively locked arms anyway, so I never bothered to toggle it off except for a few specific cases (shooting down off a cliff).

I've started turning it off for mechs where it makes sense -- all lasers in the arms and other weapons in the torso or whatever. This is surprisingly few mechs -- almost all of them work better with arms locked.

But, anyway, I see the opposite of what the OP is saying -- it makes your view *way* too bouncy because your viewpoint follows the arm crosshair, even though it's moving faster than your cockpit rotates.

[Mercules]

Get a Track-IR. You can now turn the pilot's head and look where you wish, even away from your crosshairs.

[CocoaJin]

Reverendk, on 02 February 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

Long time advocates of the High Elo Low Drag fiscal restructuring plan and game guides already know this, but I can't imagine using arm lock. If that's your jam, then do you, as is pursuant to the High Elo lifestyle and philosophy, though I suspect that increase in side to side motion of the camera would make motion sickness a bigger problem for more people if your camera doesn't index off of the torso crosshairs. The delay comes from the fact that the arms move faster than the torso twists which is better for mechs with arm weapons or people that like to go hard in the yard.

You can look left and right and all around if you hold down the left control button, often abbreviated "Ctrl" if you're short on time.

Try using the control "Ctrl" key on your keboard.

Cheers,
RK
High Elo Low Drag Collective Gaming Group for the Family Friendly Playing of High Intensity E-Games clan Clan

As I said, I'm trying to run unlocked.
CTRL allows for panning, but it does not allow the torso to follow...that's not what I want. I want my cockpit camera view to follow the arms, not the torso, I want the torso reticle to still follow up and center up on the arms as it does now...just not with my view center locked on the torso reticle.

Edited by CocoaJin, 02 February 2015 - 01:47 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

I wondered this too. I don't know if I would like it though.... Hard to say. I prefer the torso view because it gives me a smoother motion that's more predictable.

Actually I think you would be seeing more cockpit than anything if your view following arms rather than torso. It's real easy to swing your arms hard right, and you could be looking directly at one side of your cockpit, hopefully it has side windows!

Maybe a "Middle" view, so camera following the center point between your torso and arms. The more I tihnk about that, the more I think I would like it actually..

Free-look unlocks the view from your torso, and focuses on your arms, but you can't control your torso in free-look. which at times is frustrating.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 02 February 2015 - 01:51 PM.

[Tarogato]

I would also be open to exploring the possibility. More options as far as core mechanics can always be a good thing because so many people have different preferences.

---

Don't let this topic become a simple debate on 'to armlock or not to armlock'. There are other threads for that.

[blood4blood]

What OP describes sound a lot like the free look option in MW3 - I'm sure such a thing is possible, but not sure how it'd work with this game engine. I would very much like to at least have a side-view and rear-view as there was in MW4, at the least (given the lore descriptions of a screen array giving full 360 degree view, we really should have more than Eyeball Mk.1 range of vision).

As for arm-lock, I never use it. I want full range of motion, especially for shooting up and down, and shooting backward or sideways while being chased, where the torso just won't go as far as the arms.

[MoonUnitBeta]

blood4blood, on 02 February 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

What OP describes sound a lot like the free look option in MW3 - I'm sure such a thing is possible, but not sure how it'd work with this game engine. I would very much like to at least have a side-view and rear-view as there was in MW4, at the least (given the lore descriptions of a screen array giving full 360 degree view, we really should have more than Eyeball Mk.1 range of vision).

As for arm-lock, I never use it. I want full range of motion, especially for shooting up and down, and shooting backward or sideways while being chased, where the torso just won't go as far as the arms.

There is free look in MWO.. I've never played MW3 though. Is it different?

[CocoaJin]

MoonUnitBeta, on 02 February 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

I wondered this too. I don't know if I would like it though.... Hard to say. I prefer the torso view because it gives me a smoother motion that's more predictable.

I find it smooth with the arms locked and in this case, it feels intuitive, but once you unlock the arms, the mech feels like a shooter where the player shoots from his hips with a neck restraint collar. It's like the camera view wants us to aim out of the corner of the mech's view/"eye"s, instead of a more natural turning/panning of it's view(like a head and eyes on a person) to look at the target he is aiming at, with the torso trailing behind to square up.

I understand the mechs have no necks to turn, but the pilot does...I'd like arm aiming to feel like my pilot is panning his view with the arms...not locked to the torso/front cockpit screen.

MoonUnitBeta, on 02 February 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

There is free look in MWO.. I've never played MW3 though. Is it different?

But it appears to lock the torso, so you can't use free look to swing the arms on target and have the torso follow up...at least not until you cone out of free look. If I have that wrong someone please correct me.

Edited by CocoaJin, 02 February 2015 - 01:59 PM.

[Pjwned]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 February 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

I never use arm lock....never understood why so many people voluntarily gimp their range. And aiming it seems easy enough to me.

Because, in my experience at least, most of the time arm lock is more useful on than off because the constant reticle sway gets annoying quite fast, and it's easily toggled off if and when you need it.

CocoaJin, on 02 February 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

As I said, I'm trying to run unlocked.
CTRL allows for panning, but it does not allow the torso to follow...that's not what I want. I want my cockpit camera view to follow the arms, not the torso, I want the torso reticle to still follow up and center up on the arms as it does now...just not with my view center locked on the torso reticle.

That would be interesting as an option actually, it can be a pain in the ass shooting at something nearby that's above or below you because of the always center-torso-focused camera.

[HexxyTheGrouch]

I think I can see where the OP is coming from. It hit home for me as I've been playing a Centurion on and off.

When I'm being circle strafed -- because that's what you do -- there have been times when I'm instinctively turning my torso and my arms are now way WAY out ahead of the target in the crosshairs. The result is wasted shots on slow fire weapons. I'll catch it after a shot or two and correct, but an AC20 round can be the difference between surviving or not.

Not sure if I'd like the camera following the arm position option or not, but it does sound interesting.

[CocoaJin]

Now part of the problem for me might be the low FPS on my laptop(new game rig coming in a couple of months), but the torso feels like it has some choppiness to its movement(which I'm ok with, it gives the movement a mechanical feel), but because the view is locked to the torso, smooth movement of the arms while aiming is hindered by the view skipping and spurting with the torso.

If my view was locked to the arms, there would be no skipping of my camera view...though the torso reticle would like show it as it trailed behind to center on target.

Drawbacks of the view to arms lock would likely be torso twist defense. The torso would always seek to center up on your arms, only after you exceed your torso twist would they decouple.

Edited by CocoaJin, 02 February 2015 - 02:29 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Fate 6, on 02 February 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

I never used arm lock until recently. 2 reasons: first, arm lock has a toggle button now which it didn't always have, so you can effectively switch during combat. Second, laser builds are that much more effective if all your damage is completely focused, and locking the arms allows for less wasted damage against moving targets.

eh, to each their own, always felt like a crutch to me. *shrug*

Pjwned, on 02 February 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

Because, in my experience at least, most of the time arm lock is more useful on than off because the constant reticle sway gets annoying quite fast, and it's easily toggled off if and when you need it.



That would be interesting as an option actually, it can be a pain in the ass shooting at something nearby that's above or below you because of the always center-torso-focused camera.

Didn't even have it as an option back in CB. Never felt a need to use it once it was added. Do more than adequate without it.

Maybe if I used it and meta builds I'd be a comp player, lol!

[Bishop Steiner]

Pjwned, on 02 February 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

Because, in my experience at least, most of the time arm lock is more useful on than off because the constant reticle sway gets annoying quite fast, and it's easily toggled off if and when you need it.



That would be interesting as an option actually, it can be a pain in the ass shooting at something nearby that's above or below you because of the always center-torso-focused camera.

that and having the HUD gotransparent when you reticle overlays it..... love having the range of motion to shoot that low...and not to be able to see a bloody thing I am shooting at.

Musta been designed by the same committee that came up with the F35.

[NeoAres]

CocoaJin, on 02 February 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

I've decided to take on the challenge of running armed mechs without the torso lock. What I noticed was an unnatural and unintuitive focus of our view on the torso cross-hair...but it dawned on me that the visual focus should stay the arm cross-hair.

I won't say I have an opinion yet, but I'd like to explore the possibility of de-focusing our view on the torso cross-hair and instead, provide a panning pilot's view that is locked to the arms. I believe the result would be a smoother feel to the arm cross-hair, especially with respect/reference to the background.

Right now, it feels my view is tied to the arms with a rubber band/bungee. The delay in the perspective of my view with respect to the movement of the cross hairs just seems unnatural and throws an odd variable pan rate into the mix as I swing my arm cross hair about.

I'd rather the ability to pan my view relative to the arms cross hair without needing to equip a TrackIR...though I plan to get one again at some point.

I really like this idea, at the very least as a toggle-able option. I would totally prefer my "pilot's eyes" to be centered on the arm reticule because that's often where the bulk of my weaponry lies and I'm tired of having to watch a little dot travel across my screen to aim them. It would also help us actually take advantage of more open cockpits and use peripheral vision without employing the nonsensical "free look" function. Please make this an option, PGI.

Make sure the advanced zoom box centers on the arm reticule as well, or just get rid of the box altogether.

Edited by NeoAres, 02 February 2015 - 03:30 PM.

[CocoaJin]

As it is now, it's like a tank where your view is stuck straight head and the main gun's reticle moves across the screen...it creates weird view anomalies while aiming and target tracking.

Edited by CocoaJin, 02 February 2015 - 03:32 PM.