96 replies to this topic

[Greenjulius]

InRev, on 16 February 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

Let's face it: this is a slow light in the same weight bracket as the Firestarter, Raven and Jenner. It does absolutely nothing that the others can simply do better and faster. Without a wacky niche, it's a pointless mech considering how slow it is, and anyone who has ever played a Cicada-3C knows that one ERPPC is just a lesson in frustration.

Agreed. I will be running the ERPPC quirked Panther with 2xERPPC. I hate that everything is on one arm... I think it needs better quirks than a simple +12 structure strenght. That arm will get taken off SOOO fast by a faster, pursuing Firestarter.

[Brody319]

Tarogato, on 16 February 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

My initial impression on watching the video was "wow, the LBX looks awesome, I want it."

What's so bad about it? It spreads nicely at range, so you can guarantee a hit instead of missing outright, and up close it has a crazy fast cooldown and nice tight spread that you can easily focus on a single component, plus it might crit seek well.

because it spreads damage. getting a hit isn't always what you want. if spreading damage was good, Clan ACs would be the better ACs. but they are trash.

its better to deal full damage to one area rather than spread it. The only reason the LB-Xs are used really is because they have a high crit chance, but most of the time, when an enemy has no armor you are better off just dealing full damage.


----------------

Also I wanna point out that whoever was piloting that Adder was trash.
I would have killed that panther. But that adder pilot couldn't track a atlas standing still.

Edited by Brody319, 16 February 2015 - 12:13 PM.

[Greenjulius]

Tarogato, on 16 February 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

My initial impression on watching the video was "wow, the LBX looks awesome, I want it."

What's so bad about it? It spreads nicely at range, so you can guarantee a hit instead of missing outright, and up close it has a crazy fast cooldown and nice tight spread that you can easily focus on a single component, plus it might crit seek well.

It sounds cool in theory, but is terrible in reality. Try running a CN9-D with 40% plus an additonal 12% cooldown reduction on the LB10x. It is barely adequate. Now we have a mech with only 20% LB10x cooldown? It won't be a useful weapon. I will probably just boat LPLs on it unfortunately.

Edited by Greenjulius, 16 February 2015 - 12:15 PM.

[Darzok]

I must say i do not like the ENF-5P do not like UAC 5's at the best of time jam to much and with out Endo it can not carry enough ammo with out losing loads of armor and all back up weapons and heatsinks.

[Deathlike]

Escef, on 16 February 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

If you watch the video to the end, you'll find at least 1 of the left torso energy points is above the shoulder.

This is just a guess, but it's suffering from the "reverse Nova MG situation".

If you have the ballistic torsos on the Nova, the 2nd MG is located ABOVE the first one you put in.

So, if you aren't using a second weapon on the mech, you aren't going to take advantage of this. This is a terrible balance mechanic (it depends on the mech though).

k05h3lk1n, on 16 February 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

The mechs look pretty nice and I'm look especially forward to get my hands on the Enforcer tomorrow BUT

...

does Cantra lose on purpose? Sometimes it seemed like horribly bad piloting on his/her part.

It's the "tank so that the mech you are debuting looks better than it should". Anyone who doesn't dump AC20s from the quirked-4G is literally tanking their performance.

Darzok, on 16 February 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

I must say i do not like the ENF-5P do not like UAC 5's at the best of time jam to much and with out Endo it can not carry enough ammo with out losing loads of armor and all back up weapons and heatsinks.

The thing about the PGI made Enforcer variant is that mech is kinda built like an oversized Cicada-3C with JJs. The difference though that there's enough tonnage to run a variation of a Trebuchet-7K variant (using one energy hardpoint with dbl dakka)... while running JJs but not having shield arms.

What will most likely end up happening is a left-sided weapon build of some large energy wep+large ballistic with 3 MGs. Inevitable the right side with the doubled up MGs will be the shield side whereas the left side contains the bulk of the firepower.

Essentially... the building of the mech will be very predictable. If the PGI variant had doubled energy... it wouldn't suffer the same fate that the Cicada-3C is currently facing.

[Escef]

Deathlike, on 16 February 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

This is just a guess, but it's suffering from the "reverse Nova MG situation".

If you have the ballistic torsos on the Nova, the 2nd MG is located ABOVE the first one you put in.

So, if you aren't using a second weapon on the mech, you aren't going to take advantage of this. This is a terrible balance mechanic (it depends on the mech though).

Honestly wouldn't surprise me. Still, I'd pay a 0.5 ton "Small Laser Tax" to get a PPC or ERLL up there... Wouldn't be happy about it, but I'd do it.

Edited by Escef, 16 February 2015 - 12:41 PM.

[N a p e s]

That laser arm of the 8R is pretty cool looking when using the 3 energy hardpoints.

[Madcap72]

I predict players that like them and have skill will do well in them, players that don't won't.


I mean, we can all discuss ideal arangments, loadouts and such but where the rubber meets the road is that it's not like there's a huge amount of super good players who can maximize perfect loadouts.

[Darlith]

Tarogato, on 16 February 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

My initial impression on watching the video was "wow, the LBX looks awesome, I want it."

What's so bad about it? It spreads nicely at range, so you can guarantee a hit instead of missing outright, and up close it has a crazy fast cooldown and nice tight spread that you can easily focus on a single component, plus it might crit seek well.

The problem is that in a game ruled by Pinpoint damage, spreading a 10 damage shot over 3 or 4 components is always inferior to putting 10 points into one spot. An AC/10 with similar quirks would be just as good up close, and still pinpoint at range, yeah you might occasionally miss in a situation where you would hit with a single LBX pellet, but likewise you can fire at smaller targets dead on at range and miss half your pellets when an AC/10 would have put all its damage on target.

Now the above is the general consensus about LBX 10 and its issues. I happen to like them at times, but others they frustrate me, mostly in those midranges where the LBX is spreading damage but I'm unlikely to miss my AC/10 shot or a UAC/5 double tap.

[FupDup]

The 4 ballistic Enforcer seems sad in a few ways. If you go with the quirked 2 UAC/5 loadout, and use a fairly minimalistic XL255 engine, then you only get 6.5 tons for ammo and a backup weapon (lol Small Laser). If you lower the engine more than that, you basically move at heavy mech speeds, so it would make more sense to just grab a heavy...

[N a p e s]

FupDup, on 16 February 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

The 4 ballistic Enforcer seems sad in a few ways. If you go with the quirked 2 UAC/5 loadout, and use a fairly minimalistic XL255 engine, then you only get 6.5 tons for ammo and a backup weapon (lol Small Laser). If you lower the engine more than that, you basically move at heavy mech speeds, so it would make more sense to just grab a heavy...

Definitely the black sheep of the Enforcer trio... might still be fun but it will probably be hard to make real effective.

[Inflatable Fish]

so is the custom geometry just the bullet marks? that's... cheap.

[Simbacca]

El Bandito, on 16 February 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

Panther have its PPC slot mounted too low for my liking. Why didn't you guys mount it sideways like in these arts? Don't you know hardpoint locations are directly tied to sale numbers?

This I agree with completely. Additionally, a side mounted PPC looks more aesthetically pleasing.

[Revis Volek]

InRev, on 16 February 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

Basically. Against a Jenner or Firestarter, that video would have been over in 30 seconds, so SEND IN THE BADDER! The 8Z looks to be the only usable Panther since quirks make LLs basically LPLs. Could have fun with that. They really blew it with the PPC quirks on the other two though. The velocity bonus is great, but neither of them will run cool enough for 2 (ER)PPCs. Missed opportunity there, especially on the 8R with its quirks for 3 different weapon systems on a 35-tonner. Terrible idea. Just pure idiocy. It could have had a niche with a PPC machine gun but the quirk gods laughed at the Panther. As for the Enforcer, well no surprise that LBX is awful. That video really highlights that. They seriously need to do something with the weapon as it's just wasted tonnage and now wasted quirks. The 4R could be fun though. A Jumping Cent-AL has promise, even if its quirks are somewhat weaker. The 5P version . . . the less said the better.

I dont think they missed anything....and pretty sure it was deliberate.

Ever think maybe the DID NOT want this thing to boat 2 ERPPC's with the efficiency of PPC's they nerfed??(much like the 9s which is being reigned in as we speak) They got rid of jump sniping why would they quirk chassis' to bring it back? Even if it was a 35 tonner? im also pretty sure they dont want PPC's to exist in this game. They constantly do silly things with them and even ruined other chassis that are suppose to use them (Awesome).

Yea the multi quirks I dont get either, I guess its a way to stop or curb boating?

Either way, I will hold off on speculation until they are in my stable tomorrow. They look great! And im starting to see why the Enforcer head was changed. Would be very cut off/cut down cockpit....like you were looking out from under a visor all the time IMO. The enlarged panes seems like they were done out of necessity for FOV.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 16 February 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

The 4 ballistic Enforcer seems sad in a few ways. If you go with the quirked 2 UAC/5 loadout, and use a fairly minimalistic XL255 engine, then you only get 6.5 tons for ammo and a backup weapon (lol Small Laser). If you lower the engine more than that, you basically move at heavy mech speeds, so it would make more sense to just grab a heavy...

It really just wishes it was 5 tons heavier, sure it's slow, but who is gonna waste a heavy slot on a 2 UAC5 jumper (poor IV4)? Though CW being tonnage based lessens that problem quite a bit.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 16 February 2015 - 01:24 PM.

[Ice Bones]

I fail to see the point of the PPC panther when its that slow. I currently have a SDR-5D that I would take any day over this due to speed and ECM.
XL 255
1ER PPC
2SL
2JJ
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bf9025564afd149

[StraferX]

I wont lie I found the video very underwhelming, not really the mechs I was hoping for. I just hope that once I get my hands on them I will like them a lot, I hope they tank well other than that they are good looking machines. Doesn't look like we will be doing much brawling in these.

[Deathlike]

Escef, on 16 February 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

Honestly wouldn't surprise me. Still, I'd pay a 0.5 ton "Small Laser Tax" to get a PPC or ERLL up there... Wouldn't be happy about it, but I'd do it.

The PGI is variant is screwed though, for that reason alone (it didn't get a 2E left torso).

FupDup, on 16 February 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

The 4 ballistic Enforcer seems sad in a few ways. If you go with the quirked 2 UAC/5 loadout, and use a fairly minimalistic XL255 engine, then you only get 6.5 tons for ammo and a backup weapon (lol Small Laser). If you lower the engine more than that, you basically move at heavy mech speeds, so it would make more sense to just grab a heavy...

Yea... it's essentially an "upgraded" Vindicator-1X (you can actually do stuff with the PGI variant though).

Here's the basic idea based on the Trebuchet-7K... you should be immediately disappointed.

TBT-7K

There will be other builds based off of the Vindicator-1X...

VND-1X

You'll have a bigger engine cap to avoid this, but you'll end up stuffing 3 MGs on it as supplemental damage.

In essence... it will be bad.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 February 2015 - 02:09 PM.

[Davers]

I wish they had done a match from the other pilot's perspective so we could actually see the Panther and Enforcer running around.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Tarogato, on 16 February 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

My initial impression on watching the video was "wow, the LBX looks awesome, I want it."

What's so bad about it? It spreads nicely at range, so you can guarantee a hit instead of missing outright, and up close it has a crazy fast cooldown and nice tight spread that you can easily focus on a single component, plus it might crit seek well.

Its damage to internals is laughable. I used to shotgun mech with open internals with a freaking LBX20 at point blank range and they would survive. that cannon is LEGENDARY for being a derp gun but in MWO lbx cannons are kinda crap. Even at short range with all your shots hitting one armor section the damage is pretty crap. Its only good if you boat them.