216 replies to this topic

[Burktross]

terrycloth, on 18 February 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

Unless you're pairing an AC10 with other front-loaded pinpoint damage, it doesn't do enough for the pinpoint to matter (unlike an AC20). The LBX is lighter, smaller, more accurate (although less precise of course) and cooler. Neither are really awesome weapons, but the LBX is better if you only have one.

For people with bad aim, the LBX is always better.

Bad aim?
That's me!

[Mirumoto Izanami]

DarthRevis, on 18 February 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

Please fire whoever did these stock loadouts as they are a bane to you currently. Or teach them how to play the game and how to build mechs first.

Stock builds are based on TT. The 5D and 5P both have xl engines with CASE in TT (which actually does something).

[Revis Volek]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 18 February 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Stock builds are based on TT. The 5D and 5P both have xl engines with CASE in TT (which actually does something).

I understand that...but a new guy coming into this game with no grasp on TT or this game will have no idea of this. Possibly leaving it there and wasting the half ton. Then i can see the question coming of why am i dying to ST when I have CASE?

Because they are unaware of XL rules, etc, etc. Either way....very silly and should be changed when they make the mech. Just take it out and put in a half ton of extra ammo.

Edited by DarthRevis, 18 February 2015 - 02:13 PM.

[Christof Romulus]

Quote

Anyone Happy With Enforcer Or Panther?

So, I played my enforcers and panthers stock last night.

Yeah I'm actually happy with them. Downed a Daishi using nothing but a large laser and an AC 10, moving at far from optimal speeds in an Enforcer, and got 2 kills on the ERPPC Panther, both clan mechs.

The enforcer feels like a better centurion, while the Panther... I dunno, feels unique being a 35 ton light moving at 60ish kph. Obviously that will change eventually, but for now it's fun.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

DarthRevis, on 18 February 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

I understand that...but a new guy coming into this game with no grasp on TT or this game will have no idea of this. Possibly leaving it there and wasting the half ton. Then i can see the question coming of why am i dying to ST when I have CASE?

Because they are unaware of XL rules, etc, etc. Either way....very silly and should be changed when they make the mech. Just take it out and put in a half ton of extra ammo.

If new players don't know about ammo crits, xl engine rules, et al, then they have bigger problems than case in XL side torsos (torsi?), though not of their own fault. That's a problem of the game not having a solid new player experience.

Point being, there's no one (in PGI) to blame for bad stock builds, because they just use stock TT builds.

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 18 February 2015 - 02:27 PM.

[Escef]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 18 February 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Stock builds are based on TT. The 5D and 5P both have xl engines with CASE in TT (which actually does something).

The 5P doesn't exist in TT, PGI invented a third variant for the Enforcer because there weren't enough timeline appropriate variants. Still, they built it with TT play more or less in mind (though they should have gone for a third jet, IMO). So long as they don't make a habit of it, I can accept this.

[xWiredx]

Only played with the ® Enforcer last night (can't remember which variant that is) and was neither underwhelmed nor overwhelmed with joy. It's a slightly slower version of my Cent AL but with added jump jets and machine guns. 3 kills and 2 deaths in it, but at least I've knocked out the 3 cheapest skill tree items. Wish I could play more. Have builds lined up for the other 5 mechs but spent my cbills on modules during the sale so it'll be a minute before I can equip and use them.

[Axeface]

DarthRevis, on 18 February 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

To answer your first question

I never said it was ANYWHERE near being as good as an AC/10. Not even sure where you got that I said that. My exact words were..."AUTO LBX10 is PRETTY good."

Well I suppose I didnt explain it well. I think the lb10x is the worst weapon in the game and that is where I disagreed with you. I dont think it is 'pretty good' and I think that the quirks need to be much more substantial (and the weapon improved) to make it viable (perhaps a +%ammo quirk so I can save tonnage on it).
And having the quirks for it on the cbill variant annoys me, the only bonus to the 5D is the extra jumpjets. This thread is about if we are happy, I am not.
The cbill variant, and therefore the chassis as a whole is going to just gather dust in my mechbay.

DarthRevis, on 18 February 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

How can you say the outside has no effect on the inside? On some it does on others it does not. I am also entitled to my opinion and I think the ENF looks great. You may think otherwise and I will support your ability to do so but to cut on me for my opinion shows me how immature you are.

Do you do the modeling for PGI? You seem to know way more then the ones I have asked about it...

How can I say it has no effect? I offered you proof that it doesnt, if another mech can have a tardis cockpit like the atlas (Left eye), or the opposite like the griffin, then so can the enforcer. What i'm saying is there can't be a technical reason for the oversized exterior cockpit because other mechs proove this.

And, perhaps you didnt read what I said. I didn't 'cut on you' for saying it you think they are 'nice', I simply said i think its horrific and that the external cockpit is irrelevant, and therefore they must have made it bigger because........ reasons? Perhaps I came across aggressive because well, i'm annoyed and I think I've wasted 40 dollars that could go on something else.

I dont care if it looks good, if it were another mech with that design I wouldnt have a problem. It simply looks nothing like the concept art that I payed for.

I'm a bit of a perfectionist in all things.... a 'pretty good' weapon doesnt cut it for me unless they have numbers, and a 'good enough' model is far from good enough for me.

Edited by Axeface, 18 February 2015 - 04:02 PM.

[PACoFist]

The Panther is ok, if you put a bigger engine in it. It is ok, but of course lacks the firepower of a Firestarter, or the survivability of a Spider.

The Enforcer 5P with dual UAC5 is fun, the others are not so great.
Maybe I need more time with them. Haven´t had much opportunity to play the last 2 days and have not even unlocked all the basics yet.

[Fate 6]

Christof Romulus, on 18 February 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

[/b]

So, I played my enforcers and panthers stock last night.

Yeah I'm actually happy with them. Downed a Daishi using nothing but a large laser and an AC 10, moving at far from optimal speeds in an Enforcer, and got 2 kills on the ERPPC Panther, both clan mechs.

The enforcer feels like a better centurion, while the Panther... I dunno, feels unique being a 35 ton light moving at 60ish kph. Obviously that will change eventually, but for now it's fun.

If you think the Enforcer is a better Centurion you're doing the Centurion wrong. The Enforcer is ok, but the Cent and HBK are both better.

[Axeface]

More games with the lb10x and my fears are confirmed. It is utter garbage. It turns your mech into a bottomfeeding scrub thats a waste of a mech slot, only capable of exploiting the open components that your teammates provide (and its bad at that too, like mg's) - kind of like carrying 1 lrm 10 as your main weapon.

Edited by Axeface, 18 February 2015 - 03:48 PM.

[TheFuzzyBunny]

^ Yeah. I'm not a fan of the LBX10 Enforcer. I'm alright with the U/AC5 one, as long as you can aim, and okay with the laser vomit one. I wish I didn't have to keep the LBX10 one as that in my opinion is the worst of the three.

As for the Panther I'm a fan of the 4 MPL build. Works for me.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

I don't see how people play with 3 LLs in the Panther. 2 LLs fire enough to keep it hot even with 1.57 heat efficiency.

[Fate 6]

Greenjulius, on 18 February 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

People forget that the AC10 is a faster firing, low heat PPC, albeit heavier and ammo dependent. It's a decent weapon hampered by high initial weight and crit space. The slow projectile however sucks past a few hundred meters, and it's hard to cap a light running at full speed. It also only has 450/900m effective range, fairly short. It's because of those issues that I typically prefer Gauss or AC5s, as does the majority of the community.

As you point out, it sucks past a few hundred meters. Gauss/AC20 are vastly superior in quality, for only a slight increase in tonnage/crits. AC10 is one of the worst weapons in the game, sadly. If we had the LBX10 quirks for the AC10 instead it would be pretty good.

[FupDup]

Fate 6, on 18 February 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

As you point out, it sucks past a few hundred meters. Gauss/AC20 are vastly superior in quality, for only a slight increase in tonnage/crits. AC10 is one of the worst weapons in the game, sadly. If we had the LBX10 quirks for the AC10 instead it would be pretty good.

I think the issue with the AC/10 is that it has a relatively high opportunity cost for what you get out of it. It's not horrible, but it also isn't very good at anything.

Basically, it's too heavy for many loadouts to use as a backup weapon, but it's also not really strong enough to be a primary weapon. Most of its use seems to come from combining it with [ER]PPCs to bypass heat...

[Escef]

Axeface, on 18 February 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

I dont know what game you guys are playing.

It's called Mechwarrior Online, perhaps you've heard of it?

Your inability to use the Panther or Enforcer are not proof that they are bad. Hell, we used to have a poster around here that swore up and down that the Shadowhawk was garbage, despite the fact that the community as a whole concluded that it was the best medium mech released to date, and was in fact the best mech out of Project Phoenix.

Hell, I can't use a Hunchback to save my life. But that doesn't mean I rail about them being bad or anything. I've seen plenty of people get fantastic results out of Hunchies... I'm just not one of them.

Seems to me the issue with the Panther and the Enforcer is that most people either click with them or they don't, with very little in between.

After my last livestream, one of my viewers commented that the Panther was DoA, "Death of Assaults".

[Malleus011]

I played everything with near-stock loadouts to see how the 'mechs handle before attempting varying builds.

Enforcers: Overall, surprisingly survivable. Small size and decent hitboxes make it an adequate 50 tonner, though it doesn't deal the damage of a Cent or Hunchback.

5D - Reasonably quick, survivable. The LB10-X isn't good. I'll likely swap it for another cannon once I decide which one will be best, since it can't AC/20.
4R - Near-stock, the AC/10 makes it more effective than the 5D. Once I start making changes, all those E slots are appealing.
4P - Not bad as a mini-Jager, so long as you keep in mind you're shooting from the hip and can't carry quite enough ammo.

Panthers:

10K - Fair lightweight annoyance sniper. Don't expect great things, and it runs hot, but it's OK. Likely the only one I'll play past Basics due to ERPPC quirks.
9R - Like the 10K, only lesser because it lacks ERPPC quirks, and the PPC sucks because of silly min range issues. Wish they'd fix the weapon so this 'mech could operate with its intended main gun. As is, it'll be sold after Basics.
8Z - Can LL fine, but needs ERLL to survive ranged fighting. Likely the weakest Panther and probably sold after Basics.

Playing these, I do wish that more Quirks applied to weapon families instead of single weapons, like all SRM, all LRM, or all PPC. That would allow the 9R a chance to compete with the 10K, and the 8Z could swap over to advanced tech ERLL easily.

[Axeface]

Escef, on 18 February 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

It's called Mechwarrior Online, perhaps you've heard of it?

Your inability to use the Panther or Enforcer are not proof that they are bad. Hell, we used to have a poster around here that swore up and down that the Shadowhawk was garbage, despite the fact that the community as a whole concluded that it was the best medium mech released to date, and was in fact the best mech out of Project Phoenix.

I'm not uanble to use them, they just arnt very good. Why use a panther over a jenner or a firestarter? Why did I spend money of these things again? You like getting your arms blown off or is that ppc velocity so valuable for you? The enforcer, like I said before, it looks solid, but the 5D needs help - hense my posts about the awful lb10x (it is awful).They need to find a niche... PGI needs them to find a niche or people wont buy packs for any reason other than battletech nostalgia.

Edited by Axeface, 18 February 2015 - 05:08 PM.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

I am simply amazed people are bringing them to CW... I mean I get it but uh... yeah.

[Escef]

Axeface, on 18 February 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

I'm not uanble to use them, they just arnt very good.

There's a lot of people proving you wrong on that one every hour.

Axeface, on 18 February 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

Why use a panther over a jenner or a firestarter?

Because it isn't a Jenner or Firestarter. Why use anything but the most powerful meta mechs and load outs? Because those things get boring. People enjoy a certain amount of variety.

Let me clue you in to something you seem to have failed to notice: other people are not you. Just because YOU can't justify or do something does not mean someone else cannot. Do you even realize how much you sound like the "stop having fun the wrong way"-guy?

Axeface, on 18 February 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

Why did I spend money of these things again?

Hey, don't ask me that one, ask yourself. I neither know, nor care what motivated you to do so.

Axeface, on 18 February 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

You like getting your arms blown off or is that ppc velocity so valuable for you?

So far I've gotten my weapon arm blown off once. Learn how to shield a side, the Centurion is a good mech to train on.

Axeface, on 18 February 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

The enforcer, like I said before, it looks solid, but the 5D needs help - hense my posts about the awful lb10x (it is awful).They need to find a niche... PGI needs them to find a niche or people wont buy packs for any reason other than battletech nostalgia.

Funny how we played mechs before the quirk system. If you need your hand held so much that you are incapable of ignoring the quirks and just making a build that is your problem. Only the absolute worst of mechs actually needed quirks to be fun to use (totally looking at the Wolverine 6K on that one).