189 replies to this topic

[Necromantion]

Edit: Since some people dont seem to understand this when reading this post, this is an observation of mine and if me suggesting that individuals high on their Lore-horses need to step back and have have fun offends your freedom to play how you want I apologize in advance, because I thought the focus of playing a game was to have fun oh and also I have no issues with RP and actually immensely enjoy battletech lore.
NEWS FLASH:
This is an FPS game, not an RPG.


Now that that is out and in the clear, every single lore-thumper really needs to get over the "BUT THIS DIDNT HAPPEN IN TABLE TOP/BOOKS" and look at them attempting to balance around this being a PvP game, an online multiplayer FPS game. The majority of whining about this game that I see on the forums revolves around this exact scenario and people not being able to wrap their heads around it.

Once you people start looking at things in light of this and cede to admit to yourself that this is actually the case and were not in some linear RPG game where everything is determined by lore you may just want to... you know... play the game and have fun?

If the sole way for you to derive fun from the game is reenacting lore rather than approaching this game as an FPS game youre going to be immensely disappointed with PGIs development, joining up with a unit that you have fun with and enjoy playing with and just play the game you will maybe see that things aren't so bad.



Also, this is Beta still.


Things are going to be changing and in flux until PGI feels that they are balanced around a good FPS experience, hence the word Beta.

The way things are currently set up does not have enough incentive to be loyalists indeed, especially with things capping out at level 20 rewards and the fact that you can swap to a new faction and start the grind for all kinds of nice goodies like MC/Cockpit items/Cbills/Mechbays/GXP and the like.

Did you ever think that that is perhaps what PGI wanted? Maybe because its an FPS game and not an RPG?

So please, please consider this when posting. The whole "but thats not canon, thats not how it happened in the books, etc" arguments are quite invalid.

This is not an RPG.


Addition from later post after the trolling abated on page 2:
http://mwomercs.com/...31#entry4208731

Sadly when youre going from turn based to real time the ability to translate anything smoothly is near impossible, it would be like making an RTS version of Warhammer and expecting to be able to use the same damage rules and everything, it just wouldnt work.

To be clearer I guess with my stance is not that lore is a problem but that not all lore translates to a balanced online FPS game. Without the ridged structure of an RPG game the TT rules would never actually translate into something remotely balanced and playable.

When I see people making the following statements it is clear to me that they dont realize that PGI is balancing around an FPS game:

• This IS faction shouldnt be able to attack this other IS faction because it didnt happen in lore
  
• We shouldnt be pushed back to this few planets yet because it isnt lore by this time period yet
  
• Mercs shouldnt be allowed to be Clan
  
• Mercs shouldnt be allowed to be IS and Clan back and forth

The lore and its timeline is another problem in regards to Community Warfare, are we going to see people just allowing their favored houses to be wiped out like some were or absorbed as they were in lore? No not at all because those individuals would be upset.


All im saying is that people attempting to use lore to direct who should be able to play what and when is totally absurd in an FPS environment.

I guess ultimately it comes down to people wanting to use lore as an excuse to determine how other people play the game despite those avenues being available to everyone and them being implemented by PGI more than likely (especially when you look at them logically) to bring some balance to this game in light of it being an FPS game.

Do I think that CW is fine in its current state? Personally no i think it needs a lot of tweaking to add depth and more rewarding rewards for loyalists while keeping things interesting and fun for all players, loyalists and mercs combined.

This is not an RPG game where you are stuck to one path, many players have IS and Clan mechs that they enjoy playing a lot and thus being able to play whatever faction when you want makes total sense in light of that.

Edited by Necromantion, 18 February 2015 - 03:44 PM.

[pvtjamesr]

Necromantion, on 18 February 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

Also, this is Beta still.

Actually it isn't beta anymore, I don't remember when but they released it a long time ago....

[Necromantion]

pvtjamesr, on 18 February 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Actually it isn't beta anymore, I don't remember when but they released it a long time ago....

Actually community warfare is still in beta, it even says so on the in game menu if I recall correctly.

[Vxheous]

Just like we are not telling you how to enjoy the game, how about you do not try to tell us how to enjoy the game? You do not like the RP aspect of mechwarrior, fine, you do not have to RP, but to try and tell others not to and to mock them is just arrogant and reflects poorly on you.

[Necromantion]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 18 February 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

Just like we are not telling you how to enjoy the game, how about you do not try to tell us how to enjoy the game? You do not like the RP aspect of mechwarrior, fine, you do not have to RP, but to try and tell others not to and to mock them is just arrogant and reflects poorly on you.

See you're making assumptions, I find the lore of Battletech quite interesting however I am able to step back and realize that balancing around these things would make for a lackluster play experience for all players in an FPS game.

Once again its not an RPG and a lot of aspects from canon will not translate into a balanced game in any capacity. Look at what happened with clan tech after coming in with close to canon values? Clan was extremely strong for the first bit until they got nerfed a bit and this is coming from someone who prefers clan to IS.

Also I am not telling anyone not to RP, I am saying step back and realize that this being an FPS game and thus it wont fulfill every one of any RPers dreams.

Do you think people whos favorite factions that got crushed in the lore are just going to be like "oh look, its time to keel over and die and let ourselves be absorbed by faction x?" No, of course not, even if it happened in the lore.

[pvtjamesr]

CW may still be in beta but the game isn't anymore, but its pretty much semantics cause they're still working on core mechanics on the game itself.

Edited by pvtjamesr, 18 February 2015 - 08:22 AM.

[Necromantion]

pvtjamesr, on 18 February 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

CW may still be in beta but the game isn't anymore, but its pretty much semantics cause they're still working on core mechanics on the game itself.

This is about CW, hence the statement that it is still in beta in my OP.

[Cruxs]

Somewhere a neck beard is throwing up in their mouth right now. LOL

[RedDevil]

I think you're unfairly grouping up role playing with whiners. Or maybe you just don't understand what role playing is.

[Necromantion]

reddevil, on 18 February 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

I think you're unfairly grouping up role playing with whiners. Or maybe you just don't understand what role playing is.

Nope, Im stating that the majority of threads that I read on the CW forums regarding "issues" start with a few players complaining about how something is OP or that its unfair and then their only reason they can bring up is that it shouldnt exist because its not cannon or how it doesnt follow the lore. Things like how their faction is getting beat up by faction x and that shouldnt happen because it didnt happen in the lore or the like.

If you want to use the "oh they are just RPing" to excuse those posts its the same as saying something offensive then saying "oh I was just joking" invalid excuse for saying something stupid in my books.

[RedDevil]

That's not role play.

[Mycrus]

Im pretty sure he role playing...

[Necromantion]

Harathan, on 18 February 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

Oh look, MercStar is telling other people how to play again.

This is my not surprised face.

Im not MS im Necromantion first off and it was my dissection of how Ive seen people justifying their view of "Issues" on the forum when they complain about things being "broken" for weeks now.

As far as telling people how to play? Yep saying that people should step back from being so lore focused (since even PGI has said that they are balancing an FPS game with lore related aspects and not all translate to a balanced and enjoyable game) and just have fun and play the game is such an awful thing right?

You clearly didnt read the full post Harathan as per usual and decided to devolve into your usual antics so if you dont have something constructive to say piddle off and go post somewhere else because other than the goofy GIFs I feel that my post is a valid observation of how things have been playing out on the forums of late.

Edited by Necromantion, 18 February 2015 - 11:18 AM.

[Necromantion]

The funny thing is the only things that people have said on this thread have not been contradiction to anything I have said.

You accuse me of not liking lore/RP or imply that I am telling people how to play when I have done nothing of the sort other than saying to have fun and realize that not all lore will translate into this game because it is exactly what PGI has said themselves.

And when I make a valid reply to your post clarifying this people have either nothing to say or resort to trolling like this individual above.

[Koniving]

Necromantion, on 18 February 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

Actually community warfare is still in beta, it even says so on the in game menu if I recall correctly.

CW is, yes. The rest not so much.

[Necromantion]

Koniving, on 18 February 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

CW is, yes. The rest not so much.

Indeed and that is what this post is about, CW and the CW forum whining that has been happening and the justification that a lot of people are attempting to use to back up arguments for or against things they dont like that have been happening.

[Aresye]

I actually find a lot of issues in this game to be a direct result of not following lore. For example, the heat system is drastically different than that of tabletop, where a lot of the OP builds we see nowadays wouldn't even be possible utilizing the TT heat system.

There are certain elements in the TT game that cannot directly transfer over to a realtime FPS, such as dice rolls, but what I think people have forgotten is with the exception of certain mechanics, TT is still a game, and has therefore already been balanced to work in of itself. The developers in MWO didn't just tweak board game mechanics. They changed the underlying balance of the original core gameplay, and thus created new imbalances that weren't there before.

[Necromantion]

Aresye, on 18 February 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

I actually find a lot of issues in this game to be a direct result of not following lore. For example, the heat system is drastically different than that of tabletop, where a lot of the OP builds we see nowadays wouldn't even be possible utilizing the TT heat system.

There are certain elements in the TT game that cannot directly transfer over to a realtime FPS, such as dice rolls, but what I think people have forgotten is with the exception of certain mechanics, TT is still a game, and has therefore already been balanced to work in of itself. The developers in MWO didn't just tweak board game mechanics. They changed the underlying balance of the original core gameplay, and thus created new imbalances that weren't there before.

Thats fair to say too Aresye! I mean they got away from canon with ghost heat to address things like the PPC/Gauss and boating metas that they could have addressed in other ways. Especially now that quirks are coming into play.

Thats very true, sadly when youre going from turn based to real time the ability to translate anything smoothly is near impossible, it would be like making an RTS version of Warhammer and expecting to be able to use the same damage rules and everything it just wouldnt work.

To be clearer I guess with my stance is not that lore is a problem but that not all lore translates to a balanced online FPS game. Without the ridged structure of an RPG game the TT rules would never actually translate into something remotely balanced and playable.

When I see people making the following statements it is clear to me that they dont realize that PGI is balancing around an FPS game:

• This IS faction shouldnt be able to attack this other IS faction because it didnt happen in lore
  
• We shouldnt be pushed back to this few planets yet because it isnt lore by this time period yet
  
• Mercs shouldnt be allowed to be Clan
  
• Mercs shouldnt be allowed to be IS and Clan back and forth

The lore and its timeline is another problem in regards to Community Warfare, are we going to see people just allowing their favored houses to be wiped out like some were or absorbed as they were in lore? No not at all because those individuals would be upset.

All im saying is that people attempting to use lore to direct who should be able to play what and when is totally absurd in an FPS environment.

I guess ultimately it comes down to people wanting to use lore as an excuse to determine how other people play the game despite those avenues being available to everyone and them being implemented by PGI more than likely (especially when you look at them logically) to bring some balance to this game in light of it being an FPS game.

Do I think that CW is fine in its current state? Personally no i think it needs a lot of tweaking to add depth and more rewarding rewards for loyalists while keeping things interesting and fun for all players, loyalists and mercs combined.

This is not an RPG game where you are stuck to one path, many players have IS and Clan mechs that they enjoy playing a lot and thus being able to play whatever faction when you want makes total sense in light of that.

Gas Guzzler, on 18 February 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

I wouldn't pay attention to this guy Necro, he REALLY enjoys trolling. Best not to feed him.

Indeed, he has seemingly had a hardon for various individuals in MS or just MS as a whole for a few weeks.

[AlmightyAeng]

Regardless of who the troll is...

Stop feeding the troll.

/thread

[HARDKOR]

*adds hairathon to block list*