63 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Variant1, on 18 February 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

thats good to hear that game got more intersting for you, but perhaps maybe the ppc could use maybe 2 or 5% extra velocity buff. What do you think?

Honestly, I don't have a lot of experiance with the IS PPC family, this is due to when I started in July / August, I bought a TImber Wolf inside of a month, and didn't look back. It also wasn't long after that, that the PPC speed took a hit, and I used a TC Mk. IV to bring it back up to a good place.

That being said, I think 1200-1300m/s would be good for a normal IS PPC, with the ERPPC/cERPPC being around 1500m/s.

[Variant1]

Metus regem, on 18 February 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

the ERPPC/cERPPC being around 1500m/s.

ok i guess we could test this if they decide to bring up to there. But what happens if after a few days a lot of erppc rage threads come up? should the velocity be brought down if that happens?

[Ultimax]

Most of the arguments were hashed out in the weeks leading up to this nerf, what more is there to say really?

The devs nerfed mechs using LARGE PULSE LASERS ffs.

T3 mechs got nerfed.


What is there to even say about the 9S after watching a LOCUST get nerfed?




+30% Velocity will not let you outsnipe hitscan at extended ranges (800m).

Laser Vomit will win exchanges vs. the 9S and out DPS it at mid-range.

Close range brawl builds wrecked the previous version, they will wreck this version just as hard or harder.



I've simply given up on IS heavies for the time being, it is a dead space. All of the best Heavy mechs are clan side.


I do a lot of solo and team pub queue play, and I was already playing clan mechs 90% of the time anyway.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 18 February 2015 - 09:22 AM.

[FupDup]

Variant1, on 18 February 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

ok i guess we could test this if they decide to bring up to there. But what happens if after a few days a lot of erppc rage threads come up? should the velocity be brought down if that happens?

Back way before the Clam invasion, the IS PPC and ERPPC actually were at that speed. Not that many people used the ER version even before things like laser vomit power started to climb up the meta ladder....

[WarHippy]

I will just quote myself from another thread. I am also considering just switching to regular PPCs for the heat advantage as the velocity buff is minor.

WarHippy, on 17 February 2015 - 01:24 PM, said:

Eh, I always liked the mech before any quirk so this isn't a huge deal. However, it was originally quirked at -25% and that was not enough for most people so it got over buffed to -50%. The velocity buff is nice but nothing to write home about as it only makes things a little easier. I do think people overlook the fact that the nerf to ERPPCs heat also nerfs the heat on other energy weapons as well so mixed build or not things are less than awesome. Personally I would have liked to see it brought down to -35% as that would put the ERPPCs at 9.75 which is good but not nearly as absurd as the -50% putting them at 7.5 heat. Heck if they could have done the quirks as -25% energy weapons and -10% ERPPCs I think everyone would be running a more mixed load out. Of course opinions will vary.

[Metus regem]

Variant1, on 18 February 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

ok i guess we could test this if they decide to bring up to there. But what happens if after a few days a lot of erppc rage threads come up? should the velocity be brought down if that happens?

Well the PPC is a charged partical cannon, so really it should be near instant for hitting... but if the majority of the player base were to find it OP, well I don't know what to do... the PPC family has always been 1-1.5 heat for 1 damage ratio, so hot, but not unmanageable...

There is that word again unmanageable, in TT pulse lasers made it easier to hit, as they were reltivitly lower skill floor weapons. I guess I would say that the PPC family should take more trigger discipline than laser vomit, but should reward the a practiced hand and eye with them.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 18 February 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

Back way before the Clam invasion, the IS PPC and ERPPC actually were at that speed. Not that many people used the ER version even before things like laser vomit power started to climb up the meta ladder....

They were faster, actually.

These don't even break 1400m/s before the fall nerf PPC family weapons were 1500m/s.


7 tons, 11.25 heat for 10 damage, requires a skill shot to hit.



Unfortunately the Turdbolt-9S managed to incur the ire of 3 separate groups of forum dwellers.

1) Clan shills.
2) People who hate PPCs (they exist).
3) People who dislike when something goes beyond "muh-lore" and "muh-stock builds".

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 18 February 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

They were faster, actually.

These don't even break 1400m/s before the fall nerf PPC family weapons were 1500m/s.


7 tons, 11.25 heat for 10 damage, requires a skill shot to hit.



Unfortunately the Turdbolt-9S managed to incur the ire of 3 separate groups of forum dwellers.

1) Clan shills.
2) People who hate PPCs (they exist).
3) People who dislike when something goes beyond "muh-lore" and "muh-stock builds".

The PPC history as far as I'm aware includes...



1. Originally 1200 m/s and I think 10 or 8 heat a looooooooong time ago. This was back way before HSR. Nobody really used them.


2. A little bit before ballistic HSR, they got buffed to 2000 m/s and 8 heat (12 heat on ERPPC). People still didn't use them because they rarely registered hits.


3. Ballistic HSR came out, people starting using PPCs in droves. Rise of the infamous 4 PPC Stalker. I don't mean to brag, but mine had a KDR of somewhere around 11.6.


4. Small heat nerf of 9 to PPC and 13 to ERPPC. Not much changed.


5. #4 didn't finish the job, so they got heat of 10 and 15, with 1500 m/s. There was a brief period of nobody using either gun, but then people started using the regular PPC again and it was still a good gun. The ERPeep however was somewhat neglected outside of builds with only 1 total PPC (if you had 2+, regular PPC was the better choice). Additionally, regular PPCs now did 0 damage within 90m instead of linear scaling.

Also, this was the patch that added Ghost Heat, I believe.


6. After the Clan invasion, the Dire Whale enabled the crazy 2 ERPPC + 2 Gauss build. It was pretty obnoxious (I used it myself), so it caused PGI to nerf all PPCs and ERPPCs to 850/950 m/s out of sheer spite.


7. Some mechs got [ER]PPC quirks to try to make up for this nerf.


8. Recent speed increase to 950/1050 m/s, for PPC/ERPPC respectively. Some quirk adjustments.

Edited by FupDup, 18 February 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[Brody319]

Timeline of the Thunderbolt
1. Released
2. Died shortly after
3. quirks dig up the corpse and begin preforming unspeakable horrible black rituals.
4. rituals finish and the PPC thunderbolt rises from the grave like a zombie.
5. Forum bitching starts
6. Sneak peak of second quirk pass reveals that they will be nerfed
7. Even more forum bitching.
8. quirk pass comes, people who said it was dead realize its not dead and finally stay quiet.

Edited by Brody319, 18 February 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 18 February 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

The PPC history as far as I'm aware includes...


1. Originally 1200 m/s and I think 10 or 8 heat a looooooooong time ago. This was back way before HSR. Nobody really used them.

2. A little bit before ballistic HSR, they got buffed to 2000 m/s and 8 heat (12 heat on ERPPC). People still didn't use them because they rarely registered hits.

3. Ballistic HSR came out, people starting using PPCs in droves. Rise of the infamous 4 PPC Stalker. I don't mean to brag, but mine had a KDR of somewhere around 11.6.

4. Small heat nerf of 9 to PPC and 13 to ERPPC. Not much changed.

5. #4 didn't finish the job, so they got heat of 10 and 15, with 1500 m/s. There was a brief period of nobody using either gun, but then people started using the regular PPC again and it was still a good gun. The ERPeep however was somewhat neglected outside of builds with only 1 total PPC (if you had 2+, regular PPC was the better choice).

6. After the Clan invasion, the Dire Whale enabled the crazy 2 ERPPC + 2 Gauss build. It was pretty obnoxious (I used it myself), so it caused PGI to nerf all PPCs and ERPPCs to 850/950 m/s out of sheer spite.

7. Some mechs got [ER]PPC quirks to try to make up for this nerf.

8. Recent speed increase to 950/1050 m/s, for PPC/ERPPC respectively. Some quirk adjustments.

You were for more of the history than I was, but yes #5 was the speed before the nerf in the fall.


Some poptarts would hedge their bets and take 1 ER PPC and 1 PPC so they would have more than just AC 5s in close range, but generally it's a completely unused weapon with too much heat for not enough benefit.

[Ultimax]

Brody319, on 18 February 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

Timeline of the Thunderbolt
1. Released
2. Died shortly after
3. quirks dig up the corpse and begin preforming unspeakable horrible black rituals.
4. rituals finish and the PPC thunderbolt rises from the grave like a zombie.

Actually no.

It received quirks the first round for ER PPCs.


-25% heat gen.


No one played it, because ERPPC boating is still very hot at -25%.

The devs cranked it to -50%, now it's back to -25% again.



The difference between the first time and the current version is the velocity increase - which IMO is still a bit low to compete at 800m.


Base ER PPC is still too slow anyway, 30% velocity would be enough if base speed was 1300m/s - then the 9S and 9M would fire around 1700m/s - allowing the projectile to cross 800/900m in half a second - then they could remove the CD bonus so it's not fired as frequently.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 18 February 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[operatorZ]

This just proves one thing....the people asking for a tone down of the heat quirk on the TDR9S were absolutely right.

The people defending this OP quirk and calling the people who thought it was over quirked "bad, NooB, or L2play" were absolutely wrong and should be shamed.

Much like the people who said skirmish would ruin CW ....LOL....some people just don't get logic and shouldn't be listened too

[Ultimax]

operatorZ, on 18 February 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

This just proves one thing....the people asking for a tone down of the heat quirk on the TDR9S were absolutely right.

So, you are saying, all of the people who asked for clan nerfs when clan mechs were released were justified then?


I wonder if you will continue your line of thinking if specific clan mechs are nerfed due to "forum requests".




Balance by lynch mob doesn't make for a good game.

[Nightmare1]

I'm too busy mourning the nerf to my QKD-4H to care about my TDR-9S.

The QKD was a lot more fun.

[Variant1]

Ultimatum X, on 18 February 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

So, you are saying, all of the people who asked for clan nerfs when clan mechs were released were justified then?

I wonder if you will continue your line of thinking if specific clan mechs are nerfed due to "forum requests".

Balance by lynch mob doesn't make for a good game.

No offence I think he was specifically talking about the thunderbolt nerf. True balance by lynch mob is bad, but constructive criticism helps balance/improve the game.

Also could you please not make so many spaces in your post it kinda takes up space on a forum sorry

[operatorZ]

Ultimatum X, on 18 February 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

So, you are saying, all of the people who asked for clan nerfs when clan mechs were released were justified then?


I wonder if you will continue your line of thinking if specific clan mechs are nerfed due to "forum requests".




Balance by lynch mob doesn't make for a good game.

Its not lynch mob if you can objectively see that one mech or quirk is OP, objectivity.

As I have stated before; SCR and TBR could use some "tone" down too...not just TDR. (I play a lot of TBR...like a lot...but I'll admit its OP compared to most chassis)

The TDR 9S quirk was a game breaker (evidenced by its constant spamming in CW). As far as I know no "forum requests" have ever nerfed anything, PGI must have data on why certain chassis or quirks are OP and they try and nerf/buff accordingly. However, I think its fair to say that a total 50% heat reduction is an insane quirk that should have never been considered and I have no freaking clue how it was ever considered....PGI is learning i guess...I also would have been quite happy with a 35% Heat generation on the TDR9S...but the velocity buff is legitimate and not insignificant.

[Nori Silverrage]

In my experience the Thunderbolts are very tanky. The 9S doesn't need it's arms, so they provide a nice buffer and make torso twisting very effective. The side torsos get a pretty enormous +15 to structure (50% bonus), so yeah they are pretty darn tough to kill.

Anywho, I'm still seeing a lot of them, but they seem less obnoxious now.

[operatorZ]

Nori Silverrage, on 18 February 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

In my experience the Thunderbolts are very tanky. The 9S doesn't need it's arms, so they provide a nice buffer and make torso twisting very effective. The side torsos get a pretty enormous +15 to structure (50% bonus), so yeah they are pretty darn tough to kill.

Anywho, I'm still seeing a lot of them, but they seem less obnoxious now.

I'm glad you posted this...most people forget about the structure buff...they are harder to kill than most IS mechs....they take a lot of damage especially with torso twist. Also the high weapon location compared to most other mechs all ready makes them the ideal sniper platform. In addition, objectively, I don't see the advantages of the IS PPFLD ERPPC being outwayed by clan large lasers...its still better to be able to deal 20 damage while exposing your self for less than a second while getting 10-12 spread damage to your mech....logically this makes sense

[Metus regem]

operatorZ, on 18 February 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

I'm glad you posted this...most people forget about the structure buff...they are harder to kill than most IS mechs....they take a lot of damage especially with torso twist. Also the high weapon location compared to most other mechs all ready makes them the ideal sniper platform. In addition, objectively, I don't see the advantages of the IS PPFLD ERPPC being outwayed by clan large lasers...its still better to be able to deal 20 damage while exposing your self for less than a second while getting 10-12 spread damage to your mech....logically this makes sense

You are very right, but I highlighted the one problem with your argument, in Must Whine Online (MWO), most people seem to think in that manor....

[MechWarrior5152251]

Everytime the crybabies get their way they will simply cry about something else. What will their next target be? It will never be the Timberwolf or stormcrow because most of the crybabies are clanbabies....

C/D bonus for the HOTTEST weapon in the game is beyond stupid. No one can fire it at its base cooldown for more than a couple of shots. Reducing that cooldown is beyond worthless and will just cause noobs to overheat constantly.

Edited by MechWarrior5152251, 18 February 2015 - 12:05 PM.