118 replies to this topic

[Jonny Slam]

I'm not talking about nerfing quirks, or buffing quirks, I'm talking about when a wholesale quirk change invalidates a entire weapon system the previous quirk version required, thereby screwing the pilots out of all the money and time they put into the mechs being changed.

Here are just two recent examples:

The Catapult C4, initial quirks were for LRM10's then changed to LRM15's nearly the same quirk values.

The Blackjack 1DC, initial quirk passes were for AC5's then this week after none of the public bitching that follows the Thunderbolts or Timberwolves the Blackjack 1DC is all AC2.

So, my question is this: Are these types of uncalled for, and unannounced wholesale weapon system changes done by PGI solely to force us to buy new modules, and variants?

If so, isn't that seriously screwed up and dishonest?

And will Russ have the common decency to at least explain this at the townhall later today?

Edited by Jonny Slam, 19 February 2015 - 01:59 PM.

[CocoaJin]

Russ mentioned on Twitter that this quirk pass is considered the final major adjustment. From here on out he expects any further adjustments to be much finer.

Personally, I'm fine with the re-quirking, I'd be willing to accept a persistent cycle of quirk adjustments for no other reason than to keep things mixed up and fresh. It could be am emulation of tech arms race in which weapon systems ebb & flow in their effectiveness as other systems evolve to counter or improve in response to each other.

Granted, we ideally wouldn't see a chassis's affinity for lasers go to ballistics in one cycle, but it might be worthwhile to occasionally see even this drastic a change happen gradually over a series of re-quirks.

Imagine the diversity in mechs we'd see over a series of re-quirks...especially if some of these re-quirks provide transitional specializations over a cycle or two.

Edited by CocoaJin, 19 February 2015 - 02:32 PM.

[Tennex]

don't give them ideas

an evolving meta keeps the game interesting. But we don't want it too turbulent. Changes are good but over a very gradual time. Plus if there are drastic changes it will become a barrier for older players coming back to having to learn a completely different game

Edited by Tennex, 19 February 2015 - 02:10 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I actually got upset at the nerfing caused by this quirk pass because it took a Mech's off the field permanently. The BlackJack 1-DC quirk revisit resulted in a 25% reduction in damage output and doubled heat generation.

It was the biggest nerf I have ever seen applied to a Medium Mech. It also rendered the AC/5 modules I bought specifically for that Mech invalid for it anymore, and now it's going to collect dust in my hangar until they bring it back up to effective status with either more quirks or a redesign of the AC/2 weapon system.

It was sad to see an effective IS Medium removed from the field; there are far too few of them in the first place.

[Primetimex]

Look, OP hit the nail on the head and it's what I've been telling people all along - quirks are just there to make money - what else could there be?

Want to generate instant sales of a mech that's sitting in a corner gathering dust - simply add a +50% velocity, -20% cooldown, +15% range quirk say - hey presto - watch sales figures climb of said mech.

Just changing quirks left and right without particular rhyme or reason much like the rest of this game simply points to the fact that PGI can and want to generate sales the quickest way possible and quirks are just one of the tools.

Examples abound in the past: remember Heavy Metal, DragonSlayer and Ilya? All damn useless now - maybe until the next quirk to jack up sales again.

Erm, it maybe screwed up but PGI is certainly within their rights to do it - quirks encourage not only cash mech sales like OP said also modules etc - if u read the T & C they can pretty much do anything they like.

It may not be palatable but hey players can always ignore quirk changes and not buy anything!

Edited by GetterRobo, 19 February 2015 - 02:36 PM.

[Rhent]

YES.

YES.

It is more about a forced change to META to drive revenue. Everyone remembers the sale on the Dragon Slayer and then immediately after the sale ended, the JJ meta was removed. Piranha is using quirks in the same manner to drive sales. They put ridiculous quirks on a few chassis to drive sales and then once they've made their money, they **** the players who bought the quirked mech and put in a new quirk elsewhere.

[Kiiyor]

Prosperity Park, on 19 February 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

I actually got upset at the nerfing caused by this quirk pass because it took a Mech's off the field permanently. The BlackJack 1-DC quirk revisit resulted in a 25% reduction in damage output and doubled heat generation.

It was the biggest nerf I have ever seen applied to a Medium Mech. It also rendered the AC/5 modules I bought specifically for that Mech invalid for it anymore, and now it's going to collect dust in my hangar until they bring it back up to effective status with either more quirks or a redesign of the AC/2 weapon system.

It was sad to see an effective IS Medium removed from the field; there are far too few of them in the first place.

My 1X is sitting in a corner making pouty sad faces also. He misses his pulse lasers.

As to creating revenue with them... I think that's clutching at straws. I think it was less about acting nefariously, and more about perhaps making numbers line up in spreadsheets.

[Shadow Magnet]

CocoaJin, on 19 February 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

Russ mentioned on Twitter that this quirk pass is considered the final major adjustment. From here on out he expects any further adjustments to be much finer.

BS! That would leave alot of mechs in a total crap state. If that statement is true, they really got no idea how to balance things out. Because the current quirk state is a single big heap of mess.

[0rionsbane]

the bj1-dc did get hit, but its still decent as a medium being able to mount a nice high alpha, not as strong as 2 ac 5's for sustained damage, and ac 5's are just a better weapon hands down. i did like that the bj1-3 got heat reduction so now it can fire the ppcs about 3 times before having to cool.
the quirk pass that irked me the most and in general irks me are heat quirk changes, heat quirks are the strongest quirks for many reasons, you cant take full advantage of cdr and range quirks as easily without them. its just another example of pgi taking a built in system for game balance (heat) and destroying it. for example my orion-va it cant be a effective lrm boat, it cant be a effective ballistics boat with one ballistic slot, it cant be a effective brawler . its practically useless it has a bunch of cdr and range quirks but nothing for heat, so any mech with a heat quirk will outperform it in its role.

tldr; heat quirks should either be applied to one weapon system for each mech (and lets be honest ac 5's lbx 10s dont need a heat quirk ever) or completely removed. with heat quirks you undo the primary method of balancing energy ballistic and missile weapons, any weapon or mech with a heat quirk is op compared to the same mech with out one.

[terrycloth]

What you're saying is that heat quirks actually do the job quirks are supposed to do and make the mechs they're on better.

Extreme cooldown quirks can do that too (for low-heat weapons).

Other quirks are kind of nice but don't have as dramatic of an effect.

[occusoj]

Jonny Slam, on 19 February 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

The Catapult C4, initial quirks were for LRM10's then changed to LRM15's nearly the same quirk values.

Isnt the C4 be currently quirked for the terrible LRM20? At least thats what displayed ingame.

Quote

So, my question is this: Are these types of uncalled for, and unannounced wholesale weapon system changes done by PGI solely to force us to buy new modules, and variants?

In case of the BJ-1DC it most likely was a "normalization" to stock builds.
It came with AC2 stock so they quirked it for those.
To me it looks like they still havent gotten a hang on balancing and are just throwing around numbers, hoping it somehow works out.

Theres other "meh"-class mechs that received some nerfs for no good reason. Doesnt make any sense.

Increased CBill sinking due to module sales isnt bad for them but I highly doubt that even PGI can fall so low and game it with quirk stunts.

[DaZur]

No offense but some of you are being myopic...

The quirks are supposed to create a sense of equity and parity across the board so no one mech is considered vastly superior to another to allow all mechs to be considered viable, not to specifically buff or nerf a singular mech.

You have to look at the mech as it's positioned within it's class and contrast, not pick out that single example and decry OMG they nerf this mech to death...

Yes, absolutely PGI was a little heavy handed if you look at just one or two examples... But that's not the intent of the quirks.

Edited by DaZur, 19 February 2015 - 03:25 PM.

[Lindonius]

DaZur, on 19 February 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

Yes, absolutely PGI was a little heavy handed if you look at just one or two examples... But that's not the intent of the quirks.

Yeah right. Tell it to the judge dude.

Edited by Lindonius, 19 February 2015 - 03:27 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

By and large, the initial quirks were based on prevalent builds and advice from certain people who had build-path agendas in mind. The second pass has been in large part about correcting that poor decision making. You might notice that the bulk of the changes are in one of two categories: tweaking amounts to find a point of balance, or reworking a quirk set entirely so that they are relevant to the stock loadouts.

They'd have been best served doing stock-based quirks initially, so that people wouldn't have been spoiled by exotic quirk arrays that appealed to certain niche loadouts.

[Kristov Kerensky]

What Levi said, the original quirks were based on selected player input and should never have been done. This round they are based on the stock loadouts of the Mechs and that's what they should have been from the start.

It was originally supposed to be like this, quirks to fit the fluff, which was based on the stock loadouts.

[Asakara]

Jonny Slam, on 19 February 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

I'm not talking about nerfing quirks, or buffing quirks, I'm talking about when a wholesale quirk change invalidates a entire weapon system the previous quirk version required, thereby screwing the pilots out of all the money and time they put into the mechs being changed.

Here are just two recent examples:

The Catapult C4, initial quirks were for LRM10's then changed to LRM15's nearly the same quirk values.

The Blackjack 1DC, initial quirk passes were for AC5's then this week after none of the public bitching that follows the Thunderbolts or Timberwolves the Blackjack 1DC is all AC2.

So, my question is this: Are these types of uncalled for, and unannounced wholesale weapon system changes done by PGI solely to force us to buy new modules, and variants?

If so, isn't that seriously screwed up and dishonest?

And will Russ have the common decency to at least explain this at the townhall later today?

It seems to me that Russ sorta explained the reasoning for the recent quirk changes here:
https://twitter.com/...007454266171392

Edited by Asakara, 19 February 2015 - 03:43 PM.

[Torgun]

The latest stock build quirks is a terrible idea, you know why? Because a huge majority of players actually don't bother playing stock. So because Battlemaster variants have medium lasers on 4 of 5 stock builds, 4 out of 5 get medium laser specific quirks, which is just outright stupid if you'd actually want to have more variety amongst different variants without getting totally wasted quirks. You stock build quirk guys really didn't think this through when you asked for this, at all.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Torgun, I didn't ask for them, not even sure there was a big call for them, but the fluff in the TROs does support having them.

I don't pay any attention to them myself, I build my Mechs to fit my playing style, always have, so the quirk changes didn't really hit me much, except my Tbolt 9SE has more punch now. I've had 3 LPL and 2 MPL on it since I got got with my Phoenix pack, always preferred it over the 9S due to the jj option it has.

[Shadow Magnet]

Kristov Kerensky, on 19 February 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

What Levi said, the original quirks were based on selected player input and should never have been done. This round they are based on the stock loadouts of the Mechs and that's what they should have been from the start.

It was originally supposed to be like this, quirks to fit the fluff, which was based on the stock loadouts.

Sorry, but what are you smoking? Seriously!

I understand that playing stock mode matches where everyone uses stock mechs is good fun (and I fully support that).

But who with half a brain otherwise runs mechs in their stock layout? You do remove single heat sinks and add endo steel, right? Why stop there? I utilize the mech supplied hard points to figure out a weapon layout that is either very effective or a fun build I just want to try out. The stock layouts are most of the time totally horrible, don't use all hard points and are usually totallly ineffective. Who in the hell would ONLY use that?

[Brody319]

Forum whines
Gets what it wants
Whines some more.