131 replies to this topic

[N0MAD]

Yokaiko, on 21 February 2015 - 08:15 PM, said:

Holy ****, how much time do you cowards spend at 1500 meters?

Actually, wait don't answer that.

That was another point , how much fighting goes on at 1500m? and on how many maps can you do it at?
Still point is at 1500m + you do 0 damage.. but at optimum Ranges there are many many IS mechs that equal/out range clan mechs with ERLL.

[pwnface]

C-ERLL is 740m optimal range.

Range module makes it 814m. This means the maximum range for C-ERLL is 1628m WITHOUT a targeting computer.

With a TC7 + module C-ERLL reaches optimal range of 925m. This is 14m greater than the most quirked Inner Sphere mechs. This also gives it a maximum range of 1850m.

ISERLL is HARD CAPPED at 1500m. At 1500m you do ZERO damage.

Clan has a clear range advantage over IS. Please stop whining and making up bad math.

Edited by pwnface, 21 February 2015 - 08:35 PM.

[Mcgral18]

pwnface, on 21 February 2015 - 08:29 PM, said:

C-ERLL is 740m optimal range.

Range module makes it 814m. This means the maximum range for C-ERLL is 1628m WITHOUT a targeting computer.

With a TC7 + module C-ERLL reaches optimal range of 925m. This is 14m greater than the most quirked Inner Sphere mechs. This also gives it a maximum range of 1850m.

ISERLL is HARD CAPPED at 1500m. At 1500m you do ZERO damage.

Clan has a clear range advantage over IS. Please stop whining and making up bad math.

But then the tonnage argument comes into play?

Some people really love that argument.


I can't stand the long range borefests myself.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

pwnface, on 21 February 2015 - 08:29 PM, said:

C-ERLL is 740m optimal range.

Range module makes it 814m. This means the maximum range for C-ERLL is 1628m WITHOUT a targeting computer.

With a TC7 + module C-ERLL reaches optimal range of 925m. This is 14m greater than the most quirked Inner Sphere mechs. This also gives it a maximum range of 1850m.

ISERLL is HARD CAPPED at 1500m. At 1500m you do ZERO damage.

Clan has a clear range advantage over IS. Please stop whining and making up bad math.

With at TC7 and level 5 module, the Clan ER LL is 870 meters, not 925.

Also, you should really only assume we're taking at TC1. They're really not worth it beyond that. With a TC1 and the module it is 814.

Edited by Rouken, 21 February 2015 - 08:41 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Tc7 is 7 tons and 7 crits, warhawk and whale are the only two mechs that would even consider it, and neither normally would fit it.

[Scout Derek]

One day, people will realize


IT WAS BETA.

[Yokaiko]

Scout Derek, on 21 February 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

One day, people will realize


IT WAS BETA.

Beta = live in this game.


If you go by the design promises we were in beta UNTIL comunity warfare hit the streets.

[zortesh]

I was talking about is erll with quirks and the damage they would have if .... ah fuckit your just deliberate misinterpreting anything i say to argue.

[zortesh]

Rouken, on 21 February 2015 - 08:38 PM, said:

With at TC7 and level 5 module, the Clan ER LL is 870 meters, not 925.

Also, you should really only assume we're taking at TC1. They're really not worth it beyond that. With a TC1 and the module it is 814.

Yeah well... comparing best possible snipe mech on one... to a decent sniper on the otherside isn't fair..... you compare best to best.

right about 870 meters for tc7 and module thou.... 1740 max range is nothing to laugh at.

even at 1628 with tc1 you'd outrange us by 128 meters.

Edited by zortesh, 21 February 2015 - 09:37 PM.

[Taynak]

Dirk Le Daring, on 21 February 2015 - 01:16 AM, said:

Because VOIP is in the game people can now coordinate better...... Nerf VOIP ?

I have noticed much better teamwork since VOIP came in.

im sorry but.... we have been using VOIP... or as we like to call it... TEAMSPEAK 3... since we started the game... and it has better quality than your in game comm... which i turned off...

[Nik Reaper]

Rouken, on 21 February 2015 - 12:42 AM, said:

I certainly believe that balance is much closer than some players would like to believe, but what you're saying is rather hard to believe.

Do you have some specific example to illustrate that IS is able to out range clans?

Here you go , Stalker 4N has, LARGE LASER RANGE: 10.00 % ENERGY RANGE: 10.00 % and + ERLL range module =30% boost , at 675 base it equals 877.5 m , Clan ERL has a base of 740 m with only the +10% ERL module equals and 2.25% from TC1 places it at 830 m .... some nice 40m difference.
Also to consider the burn duration , CERL 1.5s , IS ERL 1.25 , and some mechs like the BJ-DC has 15% range and 15% duraton decrese placing it's ERL at 843 m and a burn duration of 1.06 s .

So the OP assesement that clans are more expensive for nothing seems correct, unless the 30% extra comes from nothing else than the CXL engines,,,,

Edited by Nik Reaper, 21 February 2015 - 09:50 PM.

[HARDKOR]

N0MAD, on 21 February 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

There are 40+ IS mechs that have a +10% to a crazy 30% energy range magic Quirk, thats not including +Laser specific Range magic. At +10% the IS ERLL comes in at 742m vs C ERLL at 740m..Yes if you invest 1 ton for TC you can extend by 2.25% and at 4 ton 4 slots you can extend by 5.25%, so any IS mech that has +12.5 counters the MK1 TC, a +15% counters the MK4. thats 4 ton 4 slot disadvantage.
Now IMO ERLL arent really ideal sniper weapons considering the amoumt of time you need to burn for full effect and the clan weapon has a longer burn time so.....
Now having said this, the IS and Clan ERPPC have the same range around 820m? something like that, that effectively means those 40+ IS mechs with the 10%+ Energy range magic way out range the Clans with ERPPC a more suitable sniper weapon, before you say ahh projectile speed for PPC is a factor just look at how many have + P speed magic, -heat, - cooldown for PPCs.
Dedicated sniper builds? lol IS has it all over the Clans, over 40 chassis that can out range the clans (with ERPPC) by a very big margin..
Want to talk about IS mechs that have +Range magic for Balistics, SRM/LRM, ?

4 ton 4 slot advantage? Your laser weighs a ton less

Nik Reaper, on 21 February 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

Here you go , Stalker 4N has, LARGE LASER RANGE: 10.00 % ENERGY RANGE: 10.00 % and + ERLL range module =30% boost , at 675 base it equals 877.5 m , Clan ERL has a base of 740 m with only the +10% ERL module equals 814 m .... some nice 60m difference.
Also to consider the burn duration , CERL 1.5s , IS ERL 1.25 , and some mechs like the BJ-DC has 15% range and 15% duraton decrese placing it's ERL at 843 m and a burn duration of 1.06 s .

So the OP assesement that clans are more expensive for nothing seems correct, unless the 30% extra comes from nothing else than the CXL engines,,,,

And vguess why IS gets 10 more tons? Stalker = Madcat in this batchall, then its fair

[zortesh]

Nik Reaper, on 21 February 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

Here you go , Stalker 4N has, LARGE LASER RANGE: 10.00 % ENERGY RANGE: 10.00 % and + ERLL range module =30% boost , at 675 base it equals 877.5 m , Clan ERL has a base of 740 m with only the +10% ERL module equals and 2.25% from TC1 places it at 830 m .... some nice 40m difference.
Also to consider the burn duration , CERL 1.5s , IS ERL 1.25 , and some mechs like the BJ-DC has 15% range and 15% duraton decrese placing it's ERL at 843 m and a burn duration of 1.06 s .

So the OP assesement that clans are more expensive for nothing seems correct, unless the 30% extra comes from nothing else than the CXL engines,,,,

Large laser range bonus.... does.... not... .apply .... to .... erll..... just regular large laser.

I dunno whats wrong with warhawks like so or so which make our 85 ton snipers look like laughable piles of junk..... the second i can honestly say outbrawls alot of things too.

And both would outrange is erll snipers, no mattter there quirks, becuase our max erll range is capped at 1500m

Given you'd have to take something other then a timberwolf and 3 stormcrows, or 4 hellbringers... and that'd be insanity.

[Jagg3d]

Nik Reaper, on 21 February 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

Here you go , Stalker 4N has, LARGE LASER RANGE: 10.00 % ENERGY RANGE: 10.00 % and + ERLL range module =30% boost , at 675 base it equals 877.5 m , Clan ERL has a base of 740 m with only the +10% ERL module equals and 2.25% from TC1 places it at 830 m .... some nice 40m difference.
Also to consider the burn duration , CERL 1.5s , IS ERL 1.25 , and some mechs like the BJ-DC has 15% range and 15% duraton decrese placing it's ERL at 843 m and a burn duration of 1.06 s .

So the OP assesement that clans are more expensive for nothing seems correct, unless the 30% extra comes from nothing else than the CXL engines,,,,

Stalker 4N's have Large lasers. 4-6 depending on the pilot. easy mech to disarm. I invite you to drop with some IS players and witness how bad our range is with lasers. you all whined about the thunderbolt 9s. Seems like easy wins all you clanners crave. Sorry I was raised to challenge myself. Still do. Get a backbone. I have faced RJP, JFP, Lords and many other clan groups their not on these forums complaining their playing and evolving with every change in the fight. I've never seen so much crying over a beta. If I saw IS factions pushing clanners back to their Home Planet I would say we have issues games working fine. FRR and Combine have been pushed back away from their capitals. Your should be ashamed of yourself isolating the few mechs we have one by one. Live on your side of the fence going vs the Timber and Crow drop decks. Team play is Op not the mechs.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

zortesh, on 21 February 2015 - 09:29 PM, said:

Yeah well... comparing best possible snipe mech on one... to a decent sniper on the otherside isn't fair..... you compare best to best.

right about 870 meters for tc7 and module thou.... 1740 max range is nothing to laugh at.

even at 1628 with tc1 you'd outrange us by 128 meters.

We need to keep this in the realm of practical builds. Otherwise things get dumb really fast.

The extra 128 meters is not really significant. The damage will be 1 or less at those ranges over the duration of the beam.

What I'm more interested in is the damage drop off. Because the max range on a quirked IS mech will be slightly further the damage drop off may be using that range instead of the 1500 meter bug distance. This would mean the damage reduction over distance would be smaller for the IS. Additionally, the Clan ER LL starts dropping off earlier.

The difference in distance is pretty small, so it is hard to tell.

So the million dollar question, to anyone wanting to do a bit of algebra, does the IS ER LL damage equalize with the Clan ER LL at any point within 1500 meters?

[The Massive]

When this guy writes his rage quit post I'm first for his stuff.

[zortesh]

Rouken, on 21 February 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

We need to keep this in the realm of practical builds. Otherwise things get dumb really fast.

The extra 128 meters is not really significant. The damage will be 1 or less at those ranges over the duration of the beam.

What I'm more interested in is the damage drop off. Because the max range on a quirked IS mech will be slightly further the damage drop off may be using that range instead of the 1500 meter bug distance. This would mean the damage reduction over distance would be smaller for the IS. Additionally, the Clan ER LL starts dropping off earlier.

The difference in distance is pretty small, so it is hard to tell.

So the million dollar question, to anyone wanting to do a bit of algebra, does the IS ER LL damage equalize with the Clan ER LL at any point within 1500 meters?

Its a good question... i do wonder if it uses 900 as base range and trails down to zero at 1500, or if it trails down towards 1800m but just stops at 1500... in which case the damage at 1450 could be quite decent.

[Nik Reaper]

zortesh, on 21 February 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

Large laser range bonus.... does.... not... .apply .... to .... erll..... just regular large laser.

I dunno whats wrong with warhawks like so or so which make our 85 ton snipers look like laughable piles of junk..... the second i can honestly say outbrawls alot of things too.

And both would outrange is erll snipers, no mattter there quirks, becuase our max erll range is capped at 1500m

Given you'd have to take something other then a timberwolf and 3 stormcrows, or 4 hellbringers... and that'd be insanity.

What are you talking about, go in a BJ-DC and test it you'r self , it has a range of 844 , and yes the max range is capped but it has a bit more effective range meaning a bit less damage dropoff , also the BJ-DC has very high mounts, now can easily carry 3 ERL with short burn duration, point being that if used right it is a better lasr sniper than what the clans have.
The stalker is a 10t igger than the TW but so what, it has more armo , can run a standard. Why are you complaining about IS and Clan having different mechs performing different jobs?
If the clan deck for sniping has a stormcrow and a timberwolf , than an IS deck has a BJ-DC and a stalker 4N 130 both ways..

Edit: The Stalker 4N still has the 10% extra energy range, so yes it's at 810 ERL wich seems kinda fair, bare the fact it can carry up to 6 with high mounts and a bunch of heatsinks .

Edited by Nik Reaper, 21 February 2015 - 10:47 PM.

[Nik Reaper]

Rouken, on 21 February 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

We need to keep this in the realm of practical builds. Otherwise things get dumb really fast.

The extra 128 meters is not really significant. The damage will be 1 or less at those ranges over the duration of the beam.

What I'm more interested in is the damage drop off. Because the max range on a quirked IS mech will be slightly further the damage drop off may be using that range instead of the 1500 meter bug distance. This would mean the damage reduction over distance would be smaller for the IS. Additionally, the Clan ER LL starts dropping off earlier.

The difference in distance is pretty small, so it is hard to tell.

So the million dollar question, to anyone wanting to do a bit of algebra, does the IS ER LL damage equalize with the Clan ER LL at any point within 1500 meters?

Rather than just the damage, as the clan ones have 2 points more of damage, the thing of interest should be that if you presume some range and go and say because the IS as a bit more of effective range but clans have a bit more damage , at that range they deal about the same amount of damage, the isue is that the IS ones are cooler and faster to discharge wich a good IS pilot will use to shake off the clans extra damage , + those machines should have high mounts making it that much easier to evade extra damage by ridge humping.

If I were to say that there is a problem I would just say that IS post quirks and range modules should not have MORE range that clans with range module and TC1, at most they should be equal.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 21 February 2015 - 10:38 PM.

[JadeTimberwolf]

Nik Reaper, on 21 February 2015 - 10:28 PM, said:

What are you talking about, go in a BJ-DC and test it you'r self , it has a range of 844 , and yes the max range is capped but it has a bit more effective range meaning a bit less damage dropoff , also the BJ-DC has very high mounts, now can easily carry 3 ERL with short burn duration, point being that if used right it is a better lasr sniper than what the clans have.
The stalker is a 10t igger than the TW but so what, it has more armo , can run a standard. Why are you complaining about IS and Clan having different mechs performing different jobs?
If the clan deck for sniping has a stormcrow and a timberwolf , than an IS deck has a BJ-DC and a stalker 4N 130 both ways..

I believe he is refering to the STK-4N in that one about the LL/ERLL, it has a LL quirk not an ERLL quirk making the LL 10% pointless for an ERLL.

Still good for boating energy just not as good for ERLL as it is for LL.

Edited by JadeTimberwolf, 21 February 2015 - 10:41 PM.