163 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 23 February 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

To top this all off, I'm having to wait a worrisome long time to get a refund for my $80 Wrath pack because they botched the Enforcer so badly. So far, only silence from support and it's been over a week...

It would be great if you could keep us updated about that situation. It's very relevant for the people ordering Wave 3 without having seen any concept art for 3 of 4 mechs, never mind their actual 3D models.

[DivineEvil]

MWO is business, just as much as any other MMO title. As long as there's an auditory of people willing to pay for the entertainment and social experience to the developers, who earn these money by providing the service and content, the business will go on. Whether it will or not, depends more on you, than on developers. Online game projects only abandoned for two reasons - the project is a failure, or it is a fraud to begin with. MWO is far from failure and has broad perspectives and outlived the potential fraud status long time ago. Game development is an art, more than anything, and creative people behind it are not so easily suggestible to wrap-up a project they've been working on for years.

Most important of all, what do you really own in any given MMO? Answer is Nothing. Developers own everything and free to do anything with "your" stuff whatever they want by the TOS agreement you've agreed upon. They give you entertainment service, nothing more, nothing less.

[Kilo 40]

If PGI decided to throw in the towel I can't imagine why another company would not buy them out. especially if MWO is profitable.

[Destructicus]

Kilo 40, on 23 February 2015 - 10:57 PM, said:

If PGI decided to throw in the towel I can't imagine why another company would not buy them out. especially if MWO is profitable.

I can imagine why another company wouldn't pick it up.
Look at us.
We, the MWO community, are impossible to please and incredibly hostile.
Sure PGI made some mistakes but they're working hard at trying to correct (most) of them
Yet we still have people complaining daily about 'x' and how they're "quitting for good"

[mike29tw]

Destructicus, on 23 February 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

I can imagine why another company wouldn't pick it up.
Look at us.
We, the MWO community, are impossible to please and incredibly hostile.
Sure PGI made some mistakes but they're working hard at trying to correct (most) of them
Yet we still have people complaining daily about 'x' and how they're "quitting for good"

Disagreed.

MWO has the best community I've ever seen in games. This is the reason that even though I got burned out and took make breaks from time to time, I always frequent the forum.

[HellJumper]

well... they are looking into a SP based game if i am not wrong. so we might have something to play.. i really hope they make quite decent SP element (i still play MW4 every now and then, even though i have finished it multiple times).

even when they oull of the plug from MWO i am sure they will let people run their own servers..so it will be something like MWLL is now with very players left.

what worries me (other than the topic) is that they will charge a decent price for the SP element.. equivalent to that of a full game.. i.e. $60 or something... and tbh i dont expcet some epic SP game to be delivered by them..

GTA 5 $60
Witcher 3 $55 ish
MKX $60 ish
and many other games.. they are delivering a really good offline game.. MWO will charge similar to that amount for a SP game..but they wont deliver anything close

[Kilo 40]

Destructicus, on 23 February 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

I can imagine why another company wouldn't pick it up.
Look at us.
We, the MWO community, are impossible to please and incredibly hostile.
Sure PGI made some mistakes but they're working hard at trying to correct (most) of them
Yet we still have people complaining daily about 'x' and how they're "quitting for good"

none of that matters as long as it's profitable.

[HellJumper]

Destructicus, on 23 February 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

I can imagine why another company wouldn't pick it up.
Look at us.
We, the MWO community, are impossible to please and incredibly hostile.
Sure PGI made some mistakes but they're working hard at trying to correct (most) of them
Yet we still have people complaining daily about 'x' and how they're "quitting for good"

maybe because they still think none of the things are being corrected??? or maybe they are really really slow at making things they said they would??

[Raggedyman]

Quote

I don't just want to rent the permission to play with PGI's mechs, for hundreds of dollars, untill they decide to pull the plug.

This is the situation with all MMOs, rather than MWO, so I think it's safe to suggest your reticence is with online only gaming rather than MWO or PGI.

[Insects]

Metus regem, on 23 February 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

that'd be one big ass printer... then again, you could do it in segments.... just turn it in to a giant lego kit... That gives me an idea for a freaking awesome sim-pit....

Tobad my wife wouldn't let me do it....

The way to do it would be to divide into sections and get foam CNC routed, then just connect all the bits.

[Alistair Winter]

Raggedyman, on 23 February 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

This is the situation with all MMOs, rather than MWO, so I think it's safe to suggest your reticence is with online only gaming rather than MWO or PGI.

I only play MWO, so I'm trying to create some awareness and consensus among the people who play this game. I could care less about every other MMO out there. With PvE hopefully becoming reality before christmas, or at least in 2016, the goal of an offline game mode is within reach.

[Violent Nick]

Alistair Winter, on 23 February 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

For me, the uncertain longevity of the game is a major reason why I hesitate to spend more money. By the time Wave 3 is delivered, the game will almost be 3 years old. You're paying as much for the Gladiator pack as for 2 complete, brand new a-level games with both single player and multiplayer. And while not all those games let you play multiplayer with friends without needing public company-owned servers, you will at least have that single player bit forever. I can play through the Mass Effect trilogy 50 years from now, though I may have trouble finding other people who are still interested in the Mass Effect multiplayer bit. I can still play Mechwarrior 2, I can still play Diablo 2, I can still play Theme Hospital, I can still play Master of Orion, I can still play Little Big Adventure.

With MWO, we're paying to rent mechs. When PGI decides to shut down the MWO servers, the game is over. And your vast mechbay with 200 mechs with custom camo, cockpit items, C-bill bonuses, and modules.... it's gone. You'll have nothing left to show for it, except your screenshots.

That's the stuff that bothers me, right now. I'm uncomfortable with sinking more money into an aging game without owning the rights to play anything at all. Without PGI keeping the game alive, I can't even look at my mechs in the mechbay.

I don't just want to rent the permission to play with PGI's mechs, for hundreds of dollars, untill they decide to pull the plug.

I'd like to own... something.

What bothers me is... with all the issues that keep coming up, if people like me wanna walk away who have also sunk in so much, why the hell would anyone new wanna stay. Feels like the carpet may get pulled from under our feet sometimes. To be honest though, for this to really happen, PGI would have to do a few more bad screw ups... thing is... It happens all the time! Look at the glitches today with FPS, Servers (Lag, disconnects etc), the Center Legs to Torso button not working, the Map issues!... and so on...

Oh man, it's a mess.
The core player base, although regularly hyperbolic and temperamental, have actually put up with a lot and PGI have used a lot of Good-Will-Capital. I don't know how long this will last though. They look at the statistics and think that they're doing okay.. They haven't even addressed things like New Player Experience. I mean, seriously?! - Grinding mechs as a veteran player is bad enough, yet core issues like NPE and general server issues are ignored, as if PGI are in denial almost. That's what bothers me!

Obviously it's a toss-up between priorities, promises and scarce resources in an environment where money needs to be made, but from an outsiders point of view I think they need to invest heavily in making MWO better at it's core (Code, servers.. etc) and then we'll get the longevity.

Let's come back to this in a year or so!

[Aethon]

Alistair Winter, on 23 February 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

For me, the uncertain longevity of the game is a major reason why I hesitate to spend more money. By the time Wave 3 is delivered, the game will almost be 3 years old. You're paying as much for the Gladiator pack as for 2 complete, brand new a-level games with both single player and multiplayer. And while not all those games let you play multiplayer with friends without needing public company-owned servers, you will at least have that single player bit forever. I can play through the Mass Effect trilogy 50 years from now, though I may have trouble finding other people who are still interested in the Mass Effect multiplayer bit. I can still play Mechwarrior 2, I can still play Diablo 2, I can still play Theme Hospital, I can still play Master of Orion, I can still play Little Big Adventure.

With MWO, we're paying to rent mechs. When PGI decides to shut down the MWO servers, the game is over. And your vast mechbay with 200 mechs with custom camo, cockpit items, C-bill bonuses, and modules.... it's gone. You'll have nothing left to show for it, except your screenshots.

That's the stuff that bothers me, right now. I'm uncomfortable with sinking more money into an aging game without owning the rights to play anything at all. Without PGI keeping the game alive, I can't even look at my mechs in the mechbay.

I don't just want to rent the permission to play with PGI's mechs, for hundreds of dollars, untill they decide to pull the plug.

I'd like to own... something.

I agree. I had no concerns about this until the 'early adopter rewards' for the latest mech pack came about, requiring us to purchase the pack before the art is even out. It feels like they are barely financially solvent or something, as though they *really* need a ton of people to buy this next pack right now.

I can understand the previous set of early-bird rewards, but this one just feels...desperate, to me.

[Joseph Mallan]

CapperDeluxe, on 23 February 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

Never go to a live music concert?

I went to one Just Saturday. 8 Opening acts and Puddle of Mudd $20.

Or I could go see Rush for as little as $23.

[TERRIB AL]

Violent Nick, on 24 February 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

What bothers me is... with all the issues that keep coming up, if people like me wanna walk away who have also sunk in so much, why the hell would anyone new wanna stay. Feels like the carpet may get pulled from under our feet sometimes. To be honest though, for this to really happen, PGI would have to do a few more bad screw ups... thing is... It happens all the time! Look at the glitches today with FPS, Servers (Lag, disconnects etc), the Center Legs to Torso button not working, the Map issues!... and so on...

Oh man, it's a mess.
The core player base, although regularly hyperbolic and temperamental, have actually put up with a lot and PGI have used a lot of Good-Will-Capital. I don't know how long this will last though. They look at the statistics and think that they're doing okay.. They haven't even addressed things like New Player Experience. I mean, seriously?! - Grinding mechs as a veteran player is bad enough, yet core issues like NPE and general server issues are ignored, as if PGI are in denial almost. That's what bothers me!

Obviously it's a toss-up between priorities, promises and scarce resources in an environment where money needs to be made, but from an outsiders point of view I think they need to invest heavily in making MWO better at it's core (Code, servers.. etc) and then we'll get the longevity.

Let's come back to this in a year or so!

Snore.

My favourite.. Entitled ******* sheep that don't do their homework.

Yummy.

[Raggedyman]

Alistair Winter, on 24 February 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

I only play MWO, so I'm trying to create some awareness and consensus among the people who play this game. I could care less about every other MMO out there. With PvE hopefully becoming reality before christmas, or at least in 2016, the goal of an offline game mode is within reach.

Awareness and consensus of what? It's Mechwarrior Online,if you have an offline PVE version that comes on a disk and you can play whenever then that's MechWarrior 5. What you are after is only "within reach" *if* PGI have the licenses to make it and think it would be financially viable.
Given that the market at the moment is heavily favouring online games (due to replay-ability and reduced piracy) and that PGI have made no mention of doing a full-blown PVE standalone game or shard then your "within reach" is more "pie in the sky", especially as the previous games sold well enough in the old markets to have carry-over *if* there was the money in it.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Alistair Winter, on 23 February 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

For me, the uncertain longevity of the game is a major reason why I hesitate to spend more money. By the time Wave 3 is delivered, the game will almost be 4 years old. You're paying as much for the Gladiator pack as for 2 complete, brand new a-level games with both single player and multiplayer. And while not all those games let you play multiplayer with friends without needing public company-owned servers, you will at least have that single player bit forever. I can play through the Mass Effect trilogy 50 years from now, though I may have trouble finding other people who are still interested in the Mass Effect multiplayer bit. I can still play Mechwarrior 2, I can still play Diablo 2, I can still play Theme Hospital, I can still play Master of Orion, I can still play Little Big Adventure.

With MWO, we're paying to rent mechs. When PGI decides to shut down the MWO servers, the game is over. And your vast mechbay with 200 mechs with custom camo, cockpit items, C-bill bonuses, and modules.... it's gone. You'll have nothing left to show for it, except your screenshots.

That's the stuff that bothers me, right now. I'm uncomfortable with sinking more money into an aging game without owning the rights to play anything at all. Without PGI keeping the game alive, I can't even look at my mechs in the mechbay.

I don't just want to rent the permission to play with PGI's mechs, for hundreds of dollars, untill they decide to pull the plug.

I'd like to own... something.

FTFY

You forget those of us who have been around since closed beta m8.

Also... I disagree with your position, MWO will be around as long as we keep spending money, simple as that.

You want the game to stay around, keep spending money OP.

Edited by Flash Frame, 24 February 2015 - 06:13 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Raggedyman, on 24 February 2015 - 04:41 AM, said:

Awareness and consensus of what? It's Mechwarrior Online,if you have an offline PVE version that comes on a disk and you can play whenever then that's MechWarrior 5. What you are after is only "within reach" *if* PGI have the licenses to make it and think it would be financially viable.
Given that the market at the moment is heavily favouring online games (due to replay-ability and reduced piracy) and that PGI have made no mention of doing a full-blown PVE standalone game or shard then your "within reach" is more "pie in the sky", especially as the previous games sold well enough in the old markets to have carry-over *if* there was the money in it.

I could not care less if they brand it as MWO or MW5. The point is, they will have all the resources they need. If they understand there is a demand for it and they feel like mech packs aren't generating a big enough income, they will consider releasing offline content. I'll be here if they do. You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

[Alistair Winter]

Flash Frame, on 24 February 2015 - 06:13 AM, said:

FTFY
You forget those of us who have been around since closed beta m8.
Also... I disagree with your position, MWO will be around as long as we keep spending money, simple as that.
You want the game to stay around, keep spending money OP.

I didn't forget, but even someone as cynical as me wouldn't say the game was out then.

See above about how much I matter as an individual. I'm spending money mostly on my selfish desire to have good mechs and I rationalize it by holding to the altruistic idea that I should spend money on a game I'm playing so much.

But when you actually do the number and consider the size of PGI's estimated budget (just the salary for 50 people alone, not counting server rent, office rent, hardware and software, license, advertisement, etc) and then compare it to how much I as an individual can contribute to their income, you quickly realize I don't really matter very much in the great scheme of things.

Yes, yes, categorical imperative, if everyone thought like that, blah blah. But I don't really matter.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Lets see, paid $60 for WoW, another $60 for BC, paid my monthly subscription for years, spent a LOT more than I've spent on MWO to date. Dungeons and Dragons Online, paid $60, paid my monthly subscription for years, then it went F2P and you know what I got for all the time and money I'd given Turbine? Nothing, actually lost characters due to the fact that before it went F2P I had 20 character slots, F2P dropped that to less than half, and that's only because I was considered 'Premium' since I'd been playing for years already and paying a monthly sub, so I got a few more slots than a totally free player does. I can think of a handful of other games I've bought the game for and paid monthly subs for and they no longer exist or went F2P and I lost stuff due to that.

Nothing new here you know, it's been this way with MMOs since the days of Evercrack and Ultima Online. You pay for the right to play online, that's it. Don't want to, don't pay, go find another game. Your investment is purely by choice, no one is forcing you do hand over money after all.

Tabula Rosa, anyone remember that game? I was part of the closed testing, enjoyed it so much that I pre-paid before it went to open testing. Game didn't even last a year. Star Trek Online, alpha tester, closed beta tester, enjoyed it and was so impressed by how quickly Cryptic fixed issues that I pre-paid, game went F2P before it was a year old, and much like DDO, I lost stuff I'd gotten as a paying subscriber when it went F2P. Haven't touched it since shortly after it went F2P, at least I didn't pony up for the Lifetime sub like many I knew did, poor bastiches.