196 replies to this topic

[Basilisk222]

I never have trouble keeping LRM on my builds.

Yes ECM cover does block it, but it does the same to streaks and they can't be dummy fired, they require a lock.

LRM can unseat snipe, it can track pesky lights that are fast in the wide open spaces, and it can soften up bigger mechs and if you're pounding them, make them less accurate (depending on pilot)

It's a support weapon, not an assault weapon, boating it is stupid, but using it to supplement works quite well. It has it's downfalls, but every weapon does. It's a bit harder to use, but that doesn't mean it's "useless".

It funny that we're hearing about the hellbringer being a problem now, despite it being in the game for months. People can buy it and all of a sudden WHOA DIS MECHS CRAZY. it's still light (60 ton) it's still mildly fragile but it has that ECM. That makes the Kit Fox-C, the Mist Lynx-C, and the Hellbringer Prime the only mechs with ECM. So, two easily disarmed lights, and a heavy.

How many mechs in IS have ECM? 5? One's an Atlas, and the others with ECM? Fast lights and mediums with tiny hitboxes, none run it in an arm. Who does light rushes better? Oh, that might be the Inner Sphere due to speed and hit reg and great defense to streak and LRM thanks to that ECM suite. What wins matches? The light rush...

I don't know, the cherry picking garbage never ends. **** it, Everything's OP. Having a computer is OP, Double clicking Icons is OP.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 24 February 2015 - 09:09 AM.

[Nick86]

Heisenbug, on 24 February 2015 - 12:05 AM, said:

Alright you people with 4 digits worth of posts, get busy explaining why I'm wrong...

TAG & NARC..?

Seriously, there's a 1 ton solution and I use it all the time.

[Amsro]

YCSLiesmith, on 24 February 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

Uuuh, dude, the Atlas DD-C is one of the best assaults in the game.

Not for a while has it been the best. On top of that all CW maps have a massive amount of hills and bumps that interfere with the Atlas arms, lots of shots hit terrain.

It can still do work, but often in CW some of that tonnage could be better used on other mechs.

Nick86, on 24 February 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

TAG & NARC..?

Seriously, there's a 1 ton solution and I use it all the time.

Indeed, having a narc or two supporting the LRM's works everytime, %80 of the time.

[sdsnowbum]

Amsro, on 24 February 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

Not for a while has it been the best. On top of that all CW maps have a massive amount of hills and bumps that interfere with the Atlas arms, lots of shots hit terrain.

It can still do work, but often in CW some of that tonnage could be better used on other mechs.

Not to mention it's sloooow.

[AlmightyAeng]

sdsnowbum, on 24 February 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

Not to mention it's sloooow.

The firepower/tonnage/ecm ratio of a dropdeck is better spent on a King Crab and an ECM light, or even a Stalker and an ECM light rather than on a D-DC and anything else.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 24 February 2015 - 09:24 AM.

[sdsnowbum]

Kilgorin Strom, on 24 February 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

I never have trouble keeping LRM on my builds.

Yes ECM cover does block it, but it does the same to streaks and they can't be dummy fired, they require a lock.

LRM can unseat snipe, it can track pesky lights that are fast in the wide open spaces, and it can soften up bigger mechs and if you're pounding them, make them less accurate (depending on pilot)

It's a support weapon, not an assault weapon, boating it is stupid, but using it to supplement works quite well. It has it's downfalls, but every weapon does. It's a bit harder to use, but that doesn't mean it's "useless".

It funny that we're hearing about the hellbringer being a problem now, despite it being in the game for months. People can buy it and all of a sudden WHOA DIS MECHS CRAZY. it's still light (60 ton) it's still mildly fragile but it has that ECM. That makes the Kit Fox-C, the Mist Lynx-C, and the Hellbringer Prime the only mechs with ECM. So, two easily disarmed lights, and a heavy.

How many mechs in IS have ECM? 5? One's an Atlas, and the others with ECM? Fast lights and mediums with tiny hitboxes, none run it in an arm. Who does light rushes better? Oh, that might be the Inner Sphere due to speed and hit reg and great defense to streak and LRM thanks to that ECM suite. What wins matches? The light rush...

I don't know, the cherry picking garbage never ends. **** it, Everything's OP. Having a computer is OP, Double clicking Icons is OP.

Maybe people didn't want to complain when Hellbringers were pay-only. It's hard to begrudge someone an advantage when they put down their money for it.

But once they become C-bill purchaseable they will be everywhere. Even now there are so many in a given CW match that they have no trouble disrupting IS ECM and enabling the dreaded c-ssrm6's salvoes.

The other thing about Hellbringers is, they can pack a lot of weapons. Sure IS has lights with ECM, but if you build a fast light with ECM you are basically leaving yourself room for a few ERLL's for weapons. Nothing over 20 firepower. So you are basically giving up any offensive capability to bring ECM.

Hellbringers don't have that problem they will all have firepower in the 30's while packing ECM.

[YCSLiesmith]

Amsro, on 24 February 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

Not for a while has it been the best. On top of that all CW maps have a massive amount of hills and bumps that interfere with the Atlas arms, lots of shots hit terrain.

It can still do work, but often in CW some of that tonnage could be better used on other mechs.



Indeed, having a narc or two supporting the LRM's works everytime, %80 of the time.

What are you doing with your atlas, trying to snipe with it? the hills and bumps just make the Ghost Dad even more dominant as a brawler, you are safe from LRM spam because of your ECM and safe from snipers thanks to terrain. Facing one, you turn a corner and an assault mech you had no idea was there cores you with an alpha strike of srms and ballistics at point blank range. You're reliving the MW5 video over and over in the Ghost Dad.

http://youtu.be/nJU4iA4TWIs?t=56s

[AlmightyAeng]

sdsnowbum, on 24 February 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

But once they become C-bill purchaseable they will be everywhere. Even now there are so many in a given CW match that they have no trouble disrupting IS ECM and enabling the dreaded c-ssrm6's salvoes.

Any clan mech that's taking clan streaks also takes Clan Active Probe. Hellbringers and their ECM don't factor into the equation for cancelling out IS ECM.

I do agree that having an ECM heavy allows an ecm mech to bring a nice mix of firepower, speed and survivability. But rather than nerf it to hell I'm content to wait for something similar on the IS side (like the Black Knight).

[sdsnowbum]

Divine Retribution, on 24 February 2015 - 03:23 AM, said:

The biggest advantage of ECM isn't stopping LRMs, it's that ECM makes it more difficult to focus fire(at least to me). When the team doesn't see red doritos, nice target designations, or even enemies on the minimap, all a team can do is call a chassis "Firing on the Timberwolf" and hope everyone shoots at the same Timberwolf in that pack of 5 Timberwolves. That many clan players bring the same 3 mechs only adds to the problem (a reason to quirk sub-par clan mechs). ECM simply makes it more difficult to be organized.

Agreed ECM gives a lot of tactical advantages. Everyone knows that flanking and positioning is a huge advantage in this game, with ECM cover and a bit of speed you can almost maneuver at will. The enemy doesn't even know you're there until you start shooting them in the back or side.

Edited by sdsnowbum, 24 February 2015 - 09:31 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

As it is right now we have been able to counter with lots of cost but im not having a very good feeling about the new clan mechs with ecm coming out.

It looks like we're going to have a clan high speed everyone will be using. I see almost no reason to not put ecm on this mech. You give up 1 missile hardpoint for it.

Then you have another 45 ton mech with ecm . It has endo and you only give up 1 missile hard point for ecm.


Im going to guess lrms will be at an all time low here soon. At the point we are at now i only use maybe 20% of my weapons because they're not very good.

[sdsnowbum]

Ghost Badger, on 24 February 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

Any clan mech that's taking clan streaks also takes Clan Active Probe. Hellbringers and their ECM don't factor into the equation for cancelling out IS ECM.

I do agree that having an ECM heavy allows an ecm mech to bring a nice mix of firepower, speed and survivability. But rather than nerf it to hell I'm content to wait for something similar on the IS side (like the Black Knight).

Fair enough.

I wish there were plans to introduce something similar on the IS side. Otherwise we'll be waiting forever.

[Necromantion]

I hear good positioning is OP

Ill take what is cover for 500?

[Khobai]

Quote

You think LRM are important?

No hes saying LRMs arnt important because of ECM.

We all know ECM is way overpowered and needs to be nerfed. Even PGI has admitted it and said they will look into rebalancing ECM in the coming days.

[AlmightyAeng]

sdsnowbum, on 24 February 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Fair enough.

I wish there were plans to introduce something similar on the IS side. Otherwise we'll be waiting forever.

60% sure the Black Knight will include an ECM variant, and 100% hopeful.

[Basilisk222]

sdsnowbum, on 24 February 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

Maybe people didn't want to complain when Hellbringers were pay-only. It's hard to begrudge someone an advantage when they put down their money for it.

But once they become C-bill purchaseable they will be everywhere. Even now there are so many in a given CW match that they have no trouble disrupting IS ECM and enabling the dreaded c-ssrm6's salvoes.

The other thing about Hellbringers is, they can pack a lot of weapons. Sure IS has lights with ECM, but if you build a fast light with ECM you are basically leaving yourself room for a few ERLL's for weapons. Nothing over 20 firepower. So you are basically giving up any offensive capability to bring ECM.

Hellbringers don't have that problem they will all have firepower in the 30's while packing ECM.

Clan ECM's a ton, IS ECM is 1.5 tons. The atlas isn't sacrificing crap to run it either. and really, neither is the Cicada. Actually, I dropped a 1/2 ton of Machine gun ammo, the AMS and one Machine gun in my Pirate's Bane to run ECM, then I fitted 4 SPL's. It's pretty great. I sac'ed what... 1 dps? Maybe some crit potential, but damage lost was pretty much nil. Heck with the flash on 1/2 attack I can actually see what I'm shooting, really all in all, I made out.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 24 February 2015 - 09:41 AM.

[Necromantion]

Ghost Badger, on 24 February 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

60% sure the Black Knight will include an ECM variant, and 100% hopeful.

This.


And ECM is not OP unless the other team is running a lot of it and your team is all LRMs with no counter.

[Necromantion]

Khobai, on 24 February 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

No hes saying LRMs arnt important because of ECM.

We all know ECM is way overpowered and needs to be nerfed. Even PGI has admitted it and said they will look into rebalancing ECM in the coming days.

Frankly LRMs need a counter like ECM otherwise it would be the boated weapon of choice with all the people who are unable to aim with pinpoint weapons or aim well enough to focus beam weapons at range on specific components using it.

Getting focus fired by LRM's is irritating due to the shake and explosions impeding vision. Without some kind of counter this game would turn into a LRMfest

Edited by Necromantion, 24 February 2015 - 09:51 AM.

[sdsnowbum]

sdsnowbum, on 24 February 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Fair enough.

I wish there were plans to introduce something similar on the IS side. Otherwise we'll be waiting forever.

Ghost Badger, on 24 February 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

60% sure the Black Knight will include an ECM variant, and 100% hopeful.

Are there any actual plans to introduce the Black Knight?

[Necromantion]

sdsnowbum, on 24 February 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Are there any actual plans to introduce the Black Knight?

I believe they already said they had finished the artwork/design of it in their recent townhall, correct me if im wrong.

Edit: Nope wasnt in the recent TH i could swear i read that somewhere though.

Edited by Necromantion, 24 February 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[H I A S]

Heisenbug, on 24 February 2015 - 12:05 AM, said:

I recently dropped back into a few CW matches to see the state of that part of the game, and wow, it sucks to be IS right now... reading through a bunch of posts, there's one point I don't see getting enough attention.

Among the various reasons that it sucks to play IS in CW (new players gravitate to IS, more IS pugs vs. clan premades, etc...) is that - IMHO - the clan drop decks have a profound advantage given the Hellbringer ECM.

Limiting ECM's to lights or a very slow assault mech created some interesting game dynamics. But allowing ECM in a 65 ton mech all but guarantees that many/most/all clan drop decks will have one (with the rest of the drop deck being bad-ass, no compromises necessary in order to bring ECM support), assuring that the clan side will have consistent ECM coverage.

So why is ECM so important? It unbalances the dynamics of the game. There's no such thing as combined arms when LRM's can't find a target. Newbs loose out on their one big crutch in not being able to LRM boat effectively (the one roll a newb can meaningfully contribute to). That actually applies to a lot of puggers too.

Hellbringer ECM isn't the sole reason that CW isn't working well at present, but it just terribly exacerbates every other problem. I'm probably overstating things, but I'd venture that disallowing ECM's on Hellbringers would address 40% of the dysfunction in CW right now.

Alright you people with 4 digits worth of posts, get busy explaining why I'm wrong...

Dont use LRM.
You can shoot Mechs with real Weapons.