71 replies to this topic

[Jetfire]

Would love to see COF added with full on convergeance modeling so that pinpoint sniping while on the run would be very unlikely even with skill.

It is for the moment and likely the foreseeable future a pipe dream however. It would be an option long after collisions are in, CW is finished, PVE is built, Solaris, etc.

It isn't monetizeable and while a good idea may not be manageable without a large undertaking to redo netcode. A bridge too far in all likelihood.

[Duke Nedo]

Perhaps that came out a bit douchy, I see what you are saying, positioning and tactics may be a bigger determinator if "everyone can aim" because the pace is so slow. It's just that I don't think that would be more fun. I am no twitcher though mind you, I am 40 years old now with the reflexes of a drunk sailor but anyways, I still think that people that have excellent aim should be rewarded for it even if this is not Quake.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Duke Nedo, on 25 February 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

Heh, I disagree. Waiting and fine adjusting aim while the reticule cools down is not harder.

Difficulty and skill are two different things.

Skill imply's being good at something, compensating for offset weaponry, bullet drop, ect. is skill.

Difficulty is the curve that skill must overcome.

it is neither difficult, nor skillful, to put a reticle over a target that's as big as a barn, and fire DoT lasers at it while it moves slow as malasses in janurary.

That being said, hitting a light at 500+meters out with a gauss in the head... now THAT'S skill.

what we have now, is not a skill based shooter in any way, it wants to be, hell it tries to be, but it's not.

You just don't want to have to re-learn how to fight, and that's fine. but saying that what we have now takes skill, is a stretch.

Duke Nedo, on 25 February 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

Perhaps that came out a bit douchy, I see what you are saying, positioning and tactics may be a bigger determinator if "everyone can aim" because the pace is so slow. It's just that I don't think that would be more fun. I am no twitcher though mind you, I am 40 years old now with the reflexes of a drunk sailor but anyways, I still think that people that have excellent aim should be rewarded for it even if this is not Quake.

And I agree, but I still feel that shot, should take more than just "graze reticle over x spot and pull trigger to fire everything."

[Duke Nedo]

Well, I just can't see that playing out well in mwo. Sure, for an Atlas vs Direwolf fight it would be no problem at all, but if you instead recall your last light vs light duel you know that you could not possibly afford to stop up and aim. In fact you could never afford to do that in a light if there is any chance that anyone could have you in their sights... so piloting a light with random cone of fire convergence mechanics would be like having all your weapons behave like LBX & SRMs do now.

Atleast that is how I vision it. I know for sure I would not enjoy that. I really enjoy legging a light in a duel, makes me feel good about my aim rather than feeling my RNG is bigger than your RNG you know...

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Duke Nedo, on 25 February 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

Well, I just can't see that playing out well in mwo. Sure, for an Atlas vs Direwolf fight it would be no problem at all, but if you instead recall your last light vs light duel you know that you could not possibly afford to stop up and aim. In fact you could never afford to do that in a light if there is any chance that anyone could have you in their sights... so piloting a light with random cone of fire convergence mechanics would be like having all your weapons behave like LBX & SRMs do now.

Atleast that is how I vision it. I know for sure I would not enjoy that. I really enjoy legging a light in a duel, makes me feel good about my aim rather than feeling my RNG is bigger than your RNG you know...

Quirks could affect the CoF, ontop of that, you could have chassis specific CoF, as well as other mechanics in place to help lights.

You're moving SUPER fast, your weaponry should not be as effective as it is anyway. You know what's actively more fearsome right now in this game than an Atlas? A firestarter... hell there are LOCUSTS that are even more fearsome than the Atlas. And that's just sad.

[pvtjamesr]

Mcgral18, on 24 February 2015 - 10:13 PM, said:

The magical, instantaneous perfectly pinpoint convergence likely won't change for the duration of MWO.


A point and click adventure, so to speak. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but MWO will never be a Sim.

I clicked like, but then I realized how sad this really was and I don't think I like it anymore.....

[That Dawg]

Quote

PINPOINT IS STILL A PROBLEM PGI

yes and do NOT fix it...ffs
There will always be better players than me, and as such, I dont need those boating maniacs a mechanical advantage over their God given talent.
leave it please...


regards, a light mech

[Aethon]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 February 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

well, thankfully, due to some of the worst hitreg in MWO history, I seldom see anywhere near 100% accuracy anymore......

The Clan and IS PPC's, as well as the Clan UAC's, seem to be the worst offenders lately (for me). They both seem to occasionally fire ping pong balls instead of charged particles or autocannon shells, even against stationary or slow-moving targets that have no lag shield.

I wish they would at least make a party hooter sound and shoot out confetti and glitter when they fail to work, so I would not have to wait for the paper doll to stop flashing to figure out my weapons did nothing. At least I would laugh instead of rage when it happened at a critical moment.

[Mechteric]

I kinda would like to see a CoF based reticle of sorts, or at least try it out and see if it makes the game more fun or less fun. Test server!!!

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 25 February 2015 - 10:17 AM.

[-Vompo-]

I cannot understand what is the problem with current system. Do people really want rng to effect the battle instead of player skill?
These mechs are the pinnacle of fighting technology of their time. Not some ww2 relics and even back then weapons hit what they were aimed at.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Jazzbandit1313, on 24 February 2015 - 10:44 PM, said:

First, some definitions.

Dynamic precision reduction (DPR) is a real-time loss of precision (distance of impact from aim point). It has no effect on accuracy (centering of impacts around the aim point).

I assume you know what the words "balance" and "immersion" mean. "Egregious" roughly means the worst, most prominant, or most exceptionally bad.

So, to try to make my suggestion easier for you to comprehend, here is a somewhat reworded version:

Have high heat levels and high throttle settings both impose a small but stacking penalty on precision, making it so that shots will deviate around the point of aim, scaling with how high your heat and throttle are in real time. This would be flavorful and immersive, while also adding a large element of skill back into the game, and would reduce or eliminate many of the problem build paths that the current system of always perfect accuracy and precision enables.

[MysticLink]

Your complaining will ruin the game. It's good the way it is. Please PGI don't change it!

[Necromantion]

So lets take out the skill and make it if you can actually aim well your shots wont go where they are aimed?....

Screw that, I would be out of this game in a flash.

Its an FPS G A M E

Like battlefield, when youre shot at your perfectly aimed shot whizzed off into the nether... f that kind of crap.

[C E Dwyer]

another thread about pinpoint isn't going to change things, just as all the others haven't since closed beta..

You just have to move around lots, and accept it, or leave, those are the simple choices at the end of the day

[FupDup]

Movement penalties: Say hello to slow assault gunbags that carry massive alphas. They don't move very fast so they don't get very much of a penalty from this. Mediums, lights, and maybe some mobile heavies, on the other hand, get absolutely shafted. They would have to give up their mobility (their only advantage) in order to get any of their damage on-target.

A Dire Wolf on the other hand would just laugh at these "penalties" and instagib every enemy that tried to stand still to line up a shot. The foresight is lacking here.

If ya'll don't remember, nearly all of this game's "exploitative" builds have been assaults or heavies. The only "exploitative" light mech was the Raven 3L while we had lagshield, but lagshield died a long time ago. I don't think we've ever had any exploitative mediums outside of maybe the laser-boating Swaybacks in CB or the current Stormcrow (in the latter case, that's more of a Stormcrow/Clan problem than a medium mech problem).



Heat penalties: Our current heat system makes reaching high heat nearly unavoidable. You can't be heat neutral or close to neutral unless you build your mech completely stupid and do something like equip an assault with a light mech's firepower and use the entire rest of your weight on heatsinks.

People suggesting this are confused with Tabletop, which made heat neutrality and heat efficiency extremely easy. A mech with 30 DHS and 4 Clan ERPPCs would be almost impossible to overheat in Tabletop. Energy builds would get killed outright because even just a single salvo jumps them up the heat bar in MWO. Yes, laser vomit is perhaps a bit too popular now, but this would swing the pendulum in the exact opposite direction.

Gauss and ACs would become the new norm pretty quickly.

Edited by FupDup, 25 February 2015 - 09:01 AM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Necromantion, on 25 February 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

So lets take out the skill and make it if you can actually aim well your shots wont go where they are aimed?....

Screw that, I would be out of this game in a flash.

Its an FPS G A M E

Like battlefield, when youre shot at your perfectly aimed shot whizzed off into the nether... f that kind of crap.

You must living in some other dimension. Just every FPS game around have cone of fire, beginning with ultimate competitive game CS where you got real PRO players earning real money for gaming.

[process]

We already have separate arm/torso reticles and different weapon mechanics. I think we have to be careful adding another layer of complexity for the sake of attracting new players.

Things like cone of fire work fine is games like CS and COD because you're generally only firing one type of weapon -- a rapid-fire nearly hitscan weapon. Taking a half second to burst fire your shots isn't nearly the annoyance it would be if you had to wait 2-4 seconds for the weapon to cooldown.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Jazzbandit1313, on 24 February 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

I mean there really isn't anything that the devs can do since they started with 100% accuracy...theres no way they could remove it and keep their playerbase...leh sigh

In closed Beta there was working convergance, there is even sad empty box in your mech skill tree to prove that.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 25 February 2015 - 09:30 AM.

[FupDup]

process, on 25 February 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

We already have separate arm/torso reticles and different weapon mechanics. I think we have to be careful adding another layer of complexity for the sake of attracting new players.

Things like cone of fire work fine is games like CS and COD because you're generally only firing one type of weapon -- a rapid-fire nearly hitscan weapon. Taking a half second to burst fire your shots isn't nearly the annoyance it would be if you had to wait 2-4 seconds for the weapon to cooldown.

In those games, characters also require far less damage to put down, so even a few missed bullets from an assault rifle wouldn't make the target live much longer.

Additionally, those games don't use a tonnage scale like Mechwarrior, which usually creates a situation of choosing to be faster at the expense of durability and firepower, or vice-versa. Everybody moves at the same speeds in most other games and everybody has similar damage output, with similar durability.

[KraftySOT]

I just wish the crosshair bounced when youre moving like every other FPS in the world.

None when standing still, a little when youre in walking speed, alot when youre at running speed.

That would go a long way towards implementing the To-Hit modifiers from moving. As it stands, for many of us, being at a full run isnt any more difficult than standing still.

It IS harder to hit a small moving target thats running, but not significantly so.

In the TT, if youre running, and the enemy is running, and youre at medium range, most pilots will miss most of their shots. The spirit of the TT has never been adapted well. And sadly MWO is a barely adequete copy of older MW titles, without utilizing most of the newest game devices that come with modern FPS.

Namely, accuracy. Even in Counterstrike 2, which is 10 years old at the moment, your best sniper rifle, isnt as accurate as our guass rifles at a full run.

Considering that while a mech is moving, a step can move the mech up and down as much as 10 feet, the idea of bounding across uneven terrain firing perfectly accurate rounds is pretty immersion breaking.

I surely dont want some arbitrary cone of fire system.

But some sort of aiming "system" other than point and click would be ... frankly awesome. In the world of world of tanks and warthunder, heroes and generals, call of duty, planetside, etc, these are fundamental mechanics that PGI either cant, or wont touch.