24 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Two important bits of communication from PGI relative to this:

and



So, weapon cooldown rates are additive, and apply to the speed that the weapon cools down at, NOT to the cycle time. This is why they are positive: They are increasing the cooldown rate, not decreasing the cycle time. Well, they do result in a decrease in cycle time, but indirectly.

As such, +100% through quirks, modules, efficiencies etc will cause a weapon to cool down twice as fast - thus, it would halve the cycle time.

So, these +25 and +50% cooldown rate quirks are somewhat less as OMG as they appear.

Could someone with more brain cells than me explain how to easily calculate how a given cooldown bonus rate will impact cycle time?

Edited by Wintersdark, 18 October 2014 - 10:58 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

Ah. Okay.

[gregsolidus]

B-but it kills mah customization!

[KraftySOT]

lol^

[Selene Lunaris]

Quirks are nice and a step in the right direction.

Weapon-specific quirks kind of... Aren't. I mean, it's good and it's progress, but I can't help but shake the feeling buffing torso yaw and twist on the HBK-4G and giving a percentage range buff on autocannons for the HBK-4H, for example, would've been better. It still distinguishes the two as separate mechs without making going for an AC/20 on one and an AC/10 on the other a no-brainer.

[Wintersdark]

Chrona, on 18 October 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

Quirks are nice and a step in the right direction.

Weapon-specific quirks kind of... Aren't. I mean, it's good and it's progress, but I can't help but shake the feeling buffing torso yaw and twist on the HBK-4G and giving a percentage range buff on autocannons for the HBK-4H, for example, would've been better. It still distinguishes the two as separate mechs without making going for an AC/20 on one and an AC/10 on the other a no-brainer.

This thread isn't about whether weapon specific quirks are the way to go or not; it's about how those quirks actually impact your mech.

[LordKnightFandragon]

All those cool down quirks, IS mechs are going to Out DPS the clans like mad.......shorter beam durations by default and then much faster cool downs? Yikes....

Hunchback with double armor LT along wiht an AC20 Cooldown and all that.....Rotary AC20 with 0 jam rate anyone?

[DocBach]

But I won't be able to put the guns I like on any 'Mech! I'll be stuck using stock builds!

[Macksheen]

I really should know more about when heat applies and ghost heat. Ghost heat applies at the beginning yes?

[Vassago Rain]

DocBach, on 18 October 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

But I won't be able to put the guns I like on any 'Mech! I'll be stuck using stock builds!

It obviously stops us from putting SRMs in our shadowhawks, and LBXs in our founder atlases.

You just don't know how deep this is, bro. 2deep4u.

[Divine Retribution]

Wintersdark, on 18 October 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Could someone with more brain cells than me explain how to easily calculate how a given cooldown bonus rate will impact cycle time?

Maybe....

100 * weapon cooldown / x = y
(normal cooldown rate of 100%) * (time to cooldown at 100%) / (modified cooldown rate) = new cooldown time

ex. 100 * 4 (cooldown in seconds of random weapon) / 140 = ~2.86 second cooldown.
With elite skill: 100 * 4 / 145 = ~2.76 cooldown.
With 100% cooldown rate bonus: 100 * 4 / 200 = 2 second cooldown rather than 0 second cooldown.
At a 400% cooldown rate you still have a 1 second cooldown if the initial time is 4 seconds.

If it were a 40% reduction in cooldown time rather than an increase in cooldown rate, 40% would change the final cooldown to 2.4 seconds.

Then again, I may be horribly wrong. I've only put as long as it took to type this out into solving the problem.

Edit: Cleaned up a bit, added examples.

Edited by Divine Retribution, 18 October 2014 - 12:27 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Macksheen, on 18 October 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

I really should know more about when heat applies and ghost heat. Ghost heat applies at the beginning yes?

Ghost heat is frontloaded, laser heat is per tick. This is why a Nova shuts down instantly alphaing 12ERML's, but if you're running high on heat you can get a partial burn on a normal build firing LL's or some such.

Heat generation happens as things fire. Clan UAC's spread heat too, but over a very brief window - if you overheat mid-burst, you'll shut down mid-burst. IS AC's and PPC's and such generate spikes when they fire.

[Joe Mallad]

All "cooldown" means is recycle/reload. If my AC-20 has a "cooldown" perk that allows it to cooldown 25% faster! that means I can then fire that AC-20 25% faster as it has been able to reload faster. But I'm still left with extra heat from the round I just fired.

I've said this in other threads. All cooldown means is we now have to watch our heat more as we will be able to fire weapons faster. Cooldown is not the same as dissipation of heat. I've brought this up to Russ and suggested that the wording of cooldown be changed to recycle/reload.

Divine Retribution, on 18 October 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

Maybe....

100 * weapon cooldown / x = y
(normal cooldown rate of 100%) * (time to cooldown at 100%) / (modified cooldown rate) = new cooldown time

ex. 100 * 4 (cooldown in seconds of random weapon) / 140 = ~2.86 second cooldown.
With elite skill: 100 * 4 / 145 = ~2.76 cooldown.
With 100% cooldown rate bonus: 100 * 4 / 200 = 2 second cooldown rather than 0 second cooldown.
At a 400% cooldown rate you still have a 1 second cooldown if the initial time is 4 seconds.

If it were a 40% reduction in cooldown time rather than an increase in cooldown rate, 40% would change the final cooldown to 2.4 seconds.

Then again, I may be horribly wrong. I've only put as long as it took to type this out into solving the problem.

Edit: Cleaned up a bit, added examples.

in English... We get to fire weapons faster because they are recycled/reloaded faster, but in turn are building more heat internally on the mech because the ROF has gone up.

[Divine Retribution]

Yoseful Mallad, on 18 October 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

in English... We get to fire weapons faster because they are recycled/reloaded faster, but in turn are building more heat internally on the mech because the ROF has gone up.

Then again, the AWS-8Q with a 25% PPC cooldown and 25% less heat generated from PPCs means you don't need to worry so much about the heat related to firing more often. I wonder if it also reduces the ghost heat generated by PPCs by 25% (I want my 4x PPC alpha 8Q back), with ghost heat really being a multiplier of the weapon heat rather than a special form of heat which simply derives a value from the weapons used.

[Joe Mallad]

Divine Retribution, on 18 October 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

Then again, the AWS-8Q with a 25% PPC cooldown and 25% less heat generated from PPCs means you don't need to worry so much about the heat related to firing more often. I wonder if it also reduces the ghost heat generated by PPCs by 25% (I want my 4x PPC alpha 8Q back), with ghost heat really being a multiplier of the weapon heat rather than a special form of heat which simply derives a value from the weapons used.

yeah, now if you have the two perks like that, that work together to help out with internal heat as well, then you truly can have a fast fire PPC mech. Which is something IMO, the Awesome should be able to do anyway.

[Roadkill]

Divine Retribution, on 18 October 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

Maybe....

100 * weapon cooldown / x = y
(normal cooldown rate of 100%) * (time to cooldown at 100%) / (modified cooldown rate) = new cooldown time

ex. 100 * 4 (cooldown in seconds of random weapon) / 140 = ~2.86 second cooldown.

Or if you just want to find the percentage, 100 / 100 + cooldown%

To continue Divine Retribution's example, +40% cooldown results in a new cycle time that is 71.4% (100/140) of the old one. You could also call that a 28.6% reduction in cycle time.

I think the confusion is coming from poor use of "Cooldown" by PGI. What they're really talking about is Cooldown Rate, not Cooldown.

[Joe Mallad]

Roadkill, on 18 October 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

Or if you just want to find the percentage, 100 / 100 + cooldown%

To continue Divine Retribution's example, +40% cooldown results in a new cycle time that is 71.4% (100/140) of the old one. You could also call that a 28.6% reduction in cycle time.

I think the confusion is coming from poor use of "Cooldown" by PGI. What they're really talking about is Cooldown Rate, not Cooldown.

exactly. This is why i suggested recycle/reload.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 18 October 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[DocBach]

Vassago Rain, on 18 October 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

It obviously stops us from putting SRMs in our shadowhawks, and LBXs in our founder atlases.

You just don't know how deep this is, bro. 2deep4u.

this is BS, I'm quitting if I can't have an LB-X in my Atlas.

[Hoffenstein]

Nothing is stopping you from using the same builds you do now. In fact, they'll be the exact same, if not better.

[Joe Mallad]

DocBach, on 18 October 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

this is BS, I'm quitting if I can't have an LB-X in my Atlas.

love your sarcasm lol