434 replies to this topic

[blood4blood]

I agree with Bishop Steiner about this Wave III pack - I bought the first three mechs, but not the Gladiator. So far it just looks weak in proportion to a lot of lighter mechs that carry around the same firepower with better speed and maneuverability.

FWIW, I'm just going to share my opinion of decent gladiator loadout via MW4 (not the strongest possible, but decent for range):

That's 44 tons of weapons not counting ammo or JJ. I know a mech like that wouldn't fit in MWO's model for balance, but I think MWO is basically broken as far as making most assaults far too weak, with a few exceptions (DWF, KGC, some specific quirk builds for others). Too many have basically the same firepower as a heavy, and the tradeoff in increased armor just isn't enough to make up for the poor speed and maneuverability for most of them. So far, it looks like the MWO Glad is just going to be another example of the same problem.

[Kin3ticX]

I bet PGI is scared to death with you holding them hostage like this.

Dude, make up your mind. Multiple multiple places you complain about poptarting, another place you complain about "bored to tears with laser vomit", and now you won't buy the next pack unless they buff JJs. How do people not call you out on this?

You do realize the poptart meta you hate is just waiting for any avenue to come back right? It wouldn't take much.

Whatever.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 02 March 2015 - 12:48 PM.

[DONTOR]

You have explained why you wouldnt want the Exec. but whats wrong with the Cauldron Born? That mech is perfectly fine.

(since you said you might buy the Shadow Cat package)

Edited by DONTOR, 02 March 2015 - 12:53 PM.

[Brody319]

Ebony Jaguar is looking like a slightly less armored Timberwolf with higher hardpoints.

Plus its equally as Sexy as the Executioner.

What is not to love?

[FupDup]

Brody319, on 02 March 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Ebony Jaguar is looking like a slightly less armored Timberwolf with higher hardpoints.

Plus its equally as Sexy as the Executioner.

What is not to love?

The Cauldron Born is exponentially sexier than the Gladbag can ever aspire to be.

[Weeny Machine]

Kin3ticX, on 02 March 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

I bet PGI is scared to death with you holding them hostage like this.

Dude, make up your mind. Multiple multiple places you complain about poptarting, another place you complain about "bored to tears with laser vomit", and now you won't buy the next pack unless they buff JJs. How do people not call you out on this?

You do realize the poptart meta you hate is just waiting for any avenue to come back right? It wouldn't take much.

Whatever.

I am sorry, but just ouch! Would you also burn down a house if someone has pest problems and then say: why do you complain now again? The cockroaches are gone!Jump Jets and maneuverability surly could have been left alone. Just let the reticle bounce wildly around during the WHOLE flight and poptarting would have been dead. Mechs like Victor, Highlander etc pay the bill for this idiocy. And do not get me started how the lore got violated...

Edited by Bush Hopper, 02 March 2015 - 01:11 PM.

[Brody319]

FupDup, on 02 March 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

The Cauldron Born is exponentially sexier than the Gladbag can ever aspire to be.

ha!

compare the lore art to the new art.

Executioner was improved 1000X over its lore.

[FupDup]

Brody319, on 02 March 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

ha!

compare the lore art to the new art.

Executioner was improved 1000X over its lore.

I'm comparing the new art for Gladbag to the new art for Cborn.

[Soy]

blood4blood, on 02 March 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

Look at those pilot names...

...what is this, an AOL '95 chat room?

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

I know..and seein gyou lose it on the Slow Firestarter Thread would be....entertaining? I has popcorn.... caramel covered?

Someone had to suffer. Thankfully it's not me!

Seriously though, I can't let threads like that get into the man who shall not be name's head. Perhaps me not getting into those discussions that suggested "ghost heat" probably is the kind of thing that allowed that BS to go down (well, actually, I suspect PGI wouldn't have listened to me anyways, so they were going to do it with or w/o my intervention).

Hey... I don't make the decisions!

[stjobe]

Apnu, on 02 March 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

Anyway, I think the thrust is weak because PGI wants to cut down on jump snipers, which pretty much everybody hates but the most cheesy of cheese players. I don't think they went about it right. I think they should have simply locked weapons out while jumping, claim its got something to do with keeping delicate weapon parts from being damaged (kinda like the drop protection some laptops have with old style HDDs) and been done with it. Then JJ's can have the thrust we expect, they get to be used for movement (and attack if we could do DFAs, oh how I wish we could DFA) instead of jump sniping.

So, I think, PGI needs to decide if JJs are for movement or attack (jump sniping) and engineer them for that purpose. I, personally, say JJs should be for movement alone.

I do think that's why JJs are weak, but I strongly disagree JJs are for movement alone. In a turn in TT (10 seconds) you could jump AND fire, albeit at an additional +3 to-hit penalty.

Also, while jump sniping is bad, jump brawling is good and shouldn't be thrown out with the jump sniping bath water. Neither should light/medium mobility, which is heavily reliant on jump jets.

I don't have exact figures, but it seems to me that a light without jump jets is a bit of an oddity in BattleTech, whereas the same can be said about an assault WITH jump jets. They both exist, of course, but in general lights tend to have jump jets and assaults not. Mediums and heavies are about fifty-fifty, with a slight lean towards having jump jets for mediums and not for heavies.

So no, please do not lock out weapons fire while jumping. Just extend the reticule shake until you've landed. That's all it takes to enable jump brawling while making jump sniping really difficult.

[The Silent Protagonist]

I got myself the Cauldron Born package because that mech, especially now with Alex's redesign, has brought a certain moistness to my loins, as well as me having a permanent hard-on for the shadow cat. The gladiator though? Same as the Gargoyle. Consider my pickle thoroughly untickled.
As for the JJ issue, I'm of the opinion they've been nerfed in completely the wrong way, and it's ruined them just as completely. All that needs doing is for the cockpit and crosshair shake to be present both when the jump jets are active as well as when gliding down. That would mean poptarting remains difficult as balls and JJs can be returned to a useful item bringing back highlander burials, victors with some actual mobility, a reason to take the Thor over a Loki, and would it kill to have some directionality with jump jets as well? I would think not.

PS, please return the Victor's ability to move like a victor, rather than make it just a ****** highlander, with equally **** JJs. PGI pls

[DONTOR]

Soy, on 02 March 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

Look at those pilot names...

...what is this, an AOL '95 chat room?

Haha! I forgot about ALT* letters! I spent hours figuring some of them out, just to use in MW4, ahhh good times.

[Gremlich Johns]

Want JJs?, go to 4:45 in this video

[ImperialKnight]

so much misconceptions in this thread.

1) Jump Jets are JUMP jets, they aid the mech in jumping. They're not flight boosters. You're not supposed to be able to fly in them, hence you don't lift off when you activate JJs when falling.

2) The distance reported in Sarna is jump DISTANCE, not height.


but yes, Class I JJs need a slight buff, they should perform at least the same as current Class II JJs given the tonnage investment

[Bishop Steiner]

Apnu, on 02 March 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

OK I get you now. Thanks for clearing that up. Yes they feel anemic to me as well. Many times I've tried to jump up something (say from the bottom to the top level of Canyons) only to get half way there and stall out.

I think that's because MWO is half using TT rules and half doing something else. On the TT, you could jump up to your maximum walking speed. One JJ = One movement point (that is moving from one hex to another, less obstructions). So a Highlander with a 3/5 movement could jump a maximum of 3 hexes up and over, in any direction, choosing their facing when they land. Depending on the number of JJs equipped. So you could have a 3/5/1 Highlander with one JJ, weird in TT but possible. We kinda have that, but there's no way the canyons on Canyon are 4 levels high, I should be able to jump up from the lower level to the upper level in one go with 4 JJs. Doesn't happen most of the time.

The worst is when I jump and the low thrust of the JJ causes me to hit something and go straight up, scraping on the terrain as you say, and killing my momentum. That sucks, I get it.

Anyway, I think the thrust is weak because PGI wants to cut down on jump snipers, which pretty much everybody hates but the most cheesy of cheese players. I don't think they went about it right. I think they should have simply locked weapons out while jumping, claim its got something to do with keeping delicate weapon parts from being damaged (kinda like the drop protection some laptops have with old style HDDs) and been done with it. Then JJ's can have the thrust we expect, they get to be used for movement (and attack if we could do DFAs, oh how I wish we could DFA) instead of jump sniping.

So, I think, PGI needs to decide if JJs are for movement or attack (jump sniping) and engineer them for that purpose. I, personally, say JJs should be for movement alone.



Gotta keep up the Twitter chatter. He stated in the last Town Hall that he prefers twitter for player communication than any other service.

Oh, trust me, I twitter Russ more than he probably likes, lol.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kin3ticX, on 02 March 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

I bet PGI is scared to death with you holding them hostage like this.

Dude, make up your mind. Multiple multiple places you complain about poptarting, another place you complain about "bored to tears with laser vomit", and now you won't buy the next pack unless they buff JJs. How do people not call you out on this?

You do realize the poptart meta you hate is just waiting for any avenue to come back right? It wouldn't take much.

Whatever.

Yawn. Mind is made up. Better reading comprehension on your part, you would realize that. But that blood thundering in your ears because I dare to disparage the immense skill of poptarting drowns it out, apparently. Oddly, the majority of posters on this seem to understand it just fine.

[Bishop Steiner]

DONTOR, on 02 March 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

You have explained why you wouldnt want the Exec. but whats wrong with the Cauldron Born? That mech is perfectly fine.

(since you said you might buy the Shadow Cat package)

Cauldron Born never tickled my Elmo. Never liked it's looks, fell in love with it's loadouts. It might indeed (heck, almost certainly, actually) be a great mech. I don't even run the Timbies, man, because they bore me. I don't see any reason I would be less bored with the CB. Heck, I'm largely bored with my Clan Mechs, in general. Only ones I still enjoy are the underperformers. I'm even uncertain about the Shadow Cat, because while I love my IS Mediums, I just have not felt it with my Clan Middies. It's literally the one part of this pack I have any interest in. Not really a Light jock by trade, don't generally like the lack of mobility to Assaults, and with the reasons mentioned in the OP, don't trust the Executioner to be mobile (got burned on my Gargles already on that front).

The CB just doesn't "speak to me". (Personally I prefer the basics of the MW4 iteration over this one...this is too tall, too streamlined. I liked the offcenter cockpit, squat and chunky feel of the MW4 version). Only Clan Mechs I actually like to drive are my Summoner and Gargoyle. (Want to like my Nova... but it just.... yeah. Sad.)

[Brody319]

I think Clan Mediums fall behind because of the Ballistics

my favorite IS mediums, Centurion, Shadhawk, and Blackjacks, all Carry big Ballistics and laser backups.

While the Clan ones rely almost entirely on Lasers which makes them pretty boring. IF they fix ballistics I'll probably enjoy them a bit more.



I don't play heavies because of the que time. Enjoy Lights and some assaults though.

[Bishop Steiner]

Brody319, on 02 March 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

I think Clan Mediums fall behind because of the Ballistics

my favorite IS mediums, Centurion, Shadhawk, and Blackjacks, all Carry big Ballistics and laser backups.

While the Clan ones rely almost entirely on Lasers which makes them pretty boring. IF they fix ballistics I'll probably enjoy them a bit more.



I don't play heavies because of the que time. Enjoy Lights and some assaults though.

the builds are indeed part of it. Never have enjoyed laser vomit, and even back in CB ran big ballistics, even with horrid hitreg on them (This was when everyone ran lasers because them and SRMs were about the only things reliable. Dear god were PPCs bad then.)

Part of it, I think is that several Clan Heavies feel about the same as my IS Mediums, too.