434 replies to this topic

[Demoncard]

How many blog threads does Bishop Steiner need at the top of the forum at any given time?

[Soy]

Fup...

I 1v1'd a lot of Highlanders back then in 3D no problem, the few people I mentioned earlier are the only ones that are gonna give you trouble. Now if it was 3D v 3D, there's a lot more people that you could include. It's just a better mech at the time or more accessible perhaps?

4 timbers, ugh, so boring...

Edited by Soy, 04 March 2015 - 04:13 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Demoncard, on 04 March 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

How many blog threads does Bishop Steiner need at the top of the forum at any given time?

who cares? I don't.

[FupDup]

Soy, on 04 March 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

Fup...

I 1v1'd a lot of Highlanders back then in 3D no problem, the few people I mentioned earlier are the only ones that are gonna give you trouble. Now if it was 3D v 3D, there's a lot more people that you could include. It's just a better mech at the time or more accessible perhaps?

4 timbers, ugh, so boring...

I'm guessing that my differing experiences were just due to not having tonnage limits to contend, so people just slapped on the biggest guns they could (until the meganerfs hit it down).

3Ds were however still really damn good and among the top mechs no matter what the environment was.


All of this is just an academic exercise of course. It's easy to see the overall trend that caused the multitude of JJ nerfs (even if there's some minor disagreement over specific mechs) and the various weapon nerfs that went along with...

Edited by FupDup, 04 March 2015 - 04:18 PM.

[Soy]

Well it's a combo of nerfs, balances tweaks, new mechs/content, development of previously-infantile strats into more mature and comprehensive understanding of the game... as also, importantly, the stratification of players into other things that they felt comfortable, which helped shift the meta as well.

See there's a difference between what's actually IN the game, and what we're actually DOING with it. For example, there could be some super duper sick loadout for some mech that just annihilates. But until someone finds it, builds it, masters it, shows it to others, and it snowballs... nothing happens. Even if patches and stuff happen. So it's 2 things, you know. Over time they happen.

I think poptarting is in a good place right now, I wouldn't complain if it was buffed, I wouldn't complain if it was nerfed. I'll always do it and always win with it.

[Bloodweaver]

LordLosh, on 04 March 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

I swear my direwolf S jumps faster, higher, and feels more agile then my rust bucket of a tin can highlanders collecting dust in my bays

I noticed something in one match that may support this. I was in Frozen City night, spawning on the inland side. We started moving towards the dropship/shore area, as usual. I turned around when a teammate called out an enemy Dire in the tunnel. I was running a Wolverine-7K with triple SRM-6 and a full complement of JJs. Turned out the Dire was an -S, and we started brawling. JUMP brawling. He would jump into the air to help turn a bit faster, I'd wait til he was about to land and start jumping too to get behind him. This went on for at least half a minute, it was hella fun. But I was amazed at just HOW HIGH that Dire was going. I'd always figured the Dire with jets would be like a Highlander, AT BEST. But this dude was SOARING.

[Kain Demos]

His DWF-S must be supercharged or something as mine does not do anything close to soaring. It is like running a Timberwolf with just two JJs.

[LordBraxton]

My panther has been poptarting like a boss lately

By that I mean flying.

JJs need more thrust less fuel though.

[Ultimax]

Jump Tests!

HGN
270 Engine, 3 JJs (stock on Sarna)
Running Distance = 150m
Full JJ "fuel" jump distance = 88m
Listed Jump Distance (Sarna) = 120m

VTR
320 Engine, 4 JJs (stock on Sarna)
Running Distance = 150m
Full JJ "fuel" jump distance = 100m
Listed Jump Distance (Sarna) = 120m

CTF-3D
280 Engine, 4 JJs (stock on Sarna)
Running Distance = 150m
Full JJ "fuel" jump distance = 96m (?)
Listed Jump Distance (Sarna) = 120m

SMN-Prime
350 Engine, 5 JJs (stock on Sarna)
Running Distance = 150m
Full JJ "fuel" jump distance = 130m
Listed Jump Distance (Sarna) = 150m

NVA-Prime
350 Engine, 5 JJs (stock on Sarna)
Running Distance = 150m
Full JJ "fuel" jump distance = 134m
Listed Jump Distance (Sarna) = 150m



JJs need to be improved.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 04 March 2015 - 05:35 PM.

[Bloodweaver]

FupDup, on 04 March 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

Did you have an account early enough to see the Highlander meta, where it was the absolute best mech in the game? Pepperidge Farm remembers. After nerfs to it, the Victor Dragon Slayer took over for a while. Were you here for that either? This was way before changes like SRMs getting the Buckton Fix and their damage increased from 1.5 per missile (which made them actually usable, instead of doing minuscule damage due to not registering). There was a point in this game's past when being a toaster pastry was more or less "the one true way" to play if you didn't want to lose. Of course PGI/Nerfinator missed the mark by nerfing the wrong things in the wrong ways, but that's beside the point.

I was playing during that time too. And I think you're exaggerating the poptart problem somewhat. Yeah, it was aggravating when you'd go up against a team full of HM meta-tarts, but I also knew the problem was how easy it was to make damage focus instantaneously on a single dot, not the tactic of pop-tarting itself. And I also saw that making jump jets faster, instead of slower, as well as making gravity closer to Earth's, would both make poptarts more vulnerable and make the game more fun for people who use JJs for other reasons. Instead, JJs were made slower, and although it has destroyed poptarting as a highly viable tactic (which wasn't really necessary tbh) it hasn't made the game fun for others.

Kain Thul, on 04 March 2015 - 04:53 PM, said:

His DWF-S must be supercharged or something as mine does not do anything close to soaring. It is like running a Timberwolf with just two JJs.

Could be! More likely, the fact I saw a Dire jumping at all made it seem more impressive to my virgin eyes than it really was. I did, however, already know that there was new variant that could mount jets. And I distinctly remember looking UP at him a few times - maybe the angle wasn't as sharp was I recall, but it was still an upward angle! Which a non-HM Highlander would not be likely to accomplish...

[FupDup]

Bloodweaver, on 04 March 2015 - 07:09 PM, said:

---
And I also saw that making jump jets faster, instead of slower, as well as making gravity closer to Earth's, would both make poptarts more vulnerable and make the game more fun for people who use JJs for other reasons. Instead, JJs were made slower, and although it has destroyed poptarting as a highly viable tactic (which wasn't really necessary tbh) it hasn't made the game fun for others.

I already covered that when I said "PGI/Nerfinator nerfed the wrong things in the wrong way."

[MauttyKoray]

KuroNyra, on 01 March 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

Jump-Jet were suppose to give ability for the mech to jump at height close to 90m if not more.

Here, we barely reach the 5 meter.

The JJ direwolf can jump the height of a mad dog in MWO, tested it on release day. Their scaling is broken though as the Summoner is supposed to have equal or better JJs of most (if not all) medium mechs, yet it apparently jumps worse than the Timberwolf? Haha, what?

[Bishop Steiner]

MauttyKoray, on 04 March 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

The JJ direwolf can jump the height of a mad dog in MWO, tested it on release day. Their scaling is broken though as the Summoner is supposed to have equal or better JJs of most (if not all) medium mechs, yet it apparently jumps worse than the Timberwolf? Haha, what?

It actually doesn't jump worse than a TW. But it does need some love.

[Clint Steel]

The main issue with JJ's was that poptarting was obnoxiously effective.

I always favored 2 solutions that wouldn't involve turning JJs into the hover jets they are currently:

One would be simply giving the same reticle shake that occurs when going up to when you go down (pretty sure they did this at one point and then removed it for "reasons", but still a viable solution).

The other idea is really my favorite, that when you hit the top of your jump (either by releasing the JJ button or running out of fuel) your mech does not instantly fall, instead it "floats" a bit slowly descending, the effect could be explained as being similar to how a turbine has to slow down, it can't just stop instantly. This would take away the biggest advantage of poptarting, which is being able to shoot and quickly get back to cover, since you will be exposed for a longer duration as your JJs spool down, keeping you from just dropping like a rock.

[Skamay]

I thought the Grasshopper was going to jump into the midst of enemies surprising them like it describes in Technical Readouts. Instead I feel like I'm farting slowly. That's with 6 JJs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Skamay, on 23 March 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

I thought the Grasshopper was going to jump into the midst of enemies surprising them like it describes in Technical Readouts. Instead I feel like I'm farting slowly. That's with 6 JJs.

Yeah, a little underwhelmed there myself, plus...I just don't do well with LaserVomit.

[Sarlic]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

Yeah, a little underwhelmed there myself, plus...I just don't do well with LaserVomit.

How can you not do well with Laservomit? Haha.

Anyway am i the only one who thinks the Hopper animations looks like a witch in a dark corner making a spell?

The animation is terrible.

Edited by Sarlic, 23 March 2015 - 09:30 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sarlic, on 23 March 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

How can you not do well with Laservomit? Haha.

Anyway am i the only one who thinks the Hopper animations looks like a witch in a dark corner making a spell?

The animation is terrible.

For one it requires more facetime than I like, limits my twisting and even overstacked on DHS usually runs hotter than I prefer? I'll take my old HBK-4G over any laser vomit in the game, any day.

[Lily from animove]

dunno why, but this gladiator, looks like I want to pilot it, but ingame it looks like a plastic toy :/

[AntiCitizenJuan]

The 5% Speed boost to the Highlander helped because it allows you to either downgrade Engine rating to 300 and carry Assault quality firepower and go 62kph or keep your 325 and go 67 kph. The problem with it still is that 2 tons for a single worthless JJ is bad, and 6 tons for 3 worthless JJs is worse. Plus the thing has ridiculous CT hitboxes.

I just want my Highlander to be better.
They need to change Jump Jets altogether.