316 replies to this topic

[Dock Steward]

HARDKOR, on 03 March 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

3rd party leagues provide infinitely more depth than dropping on the same 3 maps vs randoms because most of the people with skill seem to try to avoid fighting eachother. This is the worst made mechwarrior game to date. A solid player made league would actually make it much more interesting. MW4 lived for ten+ years all due to player made leagues.

I really don't think either of you is all right or all wrong. It's really just player preference. CAN leagues add depth? Sure. Do they inherently add depth? I would argue no. Many of the league games I've played in are nothing more than one charging deathball fighting another deathball. Not that much depth. Other games have been far more interesting. Watching a league board change is really no different than watching the CW map change.

League players are no more meaningful to the MWO community than strict casuals, and I say that as a league player.

To each their own. I will never understand why people need to constantly bash the way other people choose to play this game...

[Fate 6]

Las51, on 03 March 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

Well, I think the rules are written with adults in mind. IF there would be a team taking advantage of the 15 minute period you can gather evidence, call a ref, discuss it on the forums etc. and the team would be kicked I guess.

The Invasion Variants Rule I don't know about, but there should be a reason it is banned.

Mirumoto Izanami, on 03 March 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

Fate 6: Are you basing your comments on experience, or just extrapolating from the rules as is?

Experience, unfortunately. We ran into a team that took advantage of these unclear rules, claimed we were late when we couldn't get all 8 people into lobby in the span of about a minute, and then the refs ruled against us not just on the first drop but on the entire match even though we were there ready to play every drop and it was the opposing team that simply went offline with no attempt to play. Because of the vague rules not only did we get screwed out of a drop, but we got screwed out of the match.

Oh, and we had video evidence that we were ready for the subsequent drops after the first one and that the opposing team was offline. See, that's where the rules interpretation comes in at its "finest" - apparently "showing up late" doesn't forfeit a drop, but all the drops after that as well.

Edited by Fate 6, 03 March 2015 - 08:41 AM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Fate 6, on 03 March 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

Experience, unfortunately. We ran into a team that took advantage of these unclear rules, claimed we were late when we couldn't get all 8 people into lobby in the span of about a minute, and then the refs ruled against us not just on the first drop but on the entire match even though we were there ready to play every drop and it was the opposing team that simply went offline with no attempt to play. Because of the vague rules not only did we get screwed out of a drop, but we got screwed out of the match.

I feel sorry for you. That really is a **** move from the opposing team.

For future, use TS to set up the matches at that date and keep all the logs with timestamps for future reference if something like this happens.

[Fate 6]

ugrakarma, on 03 March 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

I feel sorry for you. That really is a **** move from the opposing team.

For future, use TS to set up the matches at that date and keep all the logs with timestamps for future reference if something like this happens.

Only way to have definitive proof is to have a video recording in-game before the match starts from the point of view of the team leader that is getting the lobby invite, something we will now be very conscious of. It's really just insulting for us as players because we just wanted to play and they clearly didn't. It's probably because, when we have actually played that team, we roflstomped them even in a game where one of our players afked halfway through due to a fire alarm. Whatever their reasoning for it was, it wasn't fun for either team, and our team might not even play in the next season of MRBC as a result of this.

[PhoenixFire55]

Fate 6, on 03 March 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

Experience, unfortunately. We ran into a team that took advantage of these unclear rules, claimed we were late when we couldn't get all 8 people into lobby in the span of about a minute, and then the refs ruled against us not just on the first drop but on the entire match even though we were there ready to play every drop and it was the opposing team that simply went offline with no attempt to play. Because of the vague rules not only did we get screwed out of a drop, but we got screwed out of the match.

Oh, and we had video evidence that we were ready for the subsequent drops after the first one and that the opposing team was offline. See, that's where the rules interpretation comes in at its "finest" - apparently "showing up late" doesn't forfeit a drop, but all the drops after that as well.

While you are at it, don't forget to mention that it was same refs who allowed you to schedule a redrop of the match where you clearly violated the rules. You were given a boatload of leeway beacuse you were a new team. You were also warned that you should be VERY precise about being on time for the redrop and you were still 15+ minutes late. You also never provided the video evidence you claim you have. It doesn't mean other team was angel-like crystal clear honest, but the only people you can blame about the entire situation are yourselves.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Hardkor, the only reason people played MW4 for so long was the fact that there wasn't another MW game to play, that's it. It had nothing to do with the leagues or how the game played, there just wasn't another option.

[PhoenixFire55]

Kristov Kerensky, on 03 March 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

Hardkor, the only reason people played MW4 for so long was the fact that there wasn't another MW game to play, that's it. It had nothing to do with the leagues or how the game played, there just wasn't another option.

Substitute MW4 for MW:O and it remains true.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

PhoenixFire55, on 03 March 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

Substitute MW4 for MW:O and it remains true.

Oh, not denying that. If a better version of FPS Battle Tech came along, I'd hop all over it. True with pretty much any product.

The point was, Hardkor was attributing MW4's longevity to player leagues, ignoring that it was the only game in town.
It would be like me saying the only reason MWO is lasting this long is because of player leagues.

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 03 March 2015 - 09:19 AM.

[Galenit]

PhoenixFire55, on 03 March 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

Nope, I am. But feel free to challenge me and prove me wrong.

If you want a challenge, then we should take it with even odds.

You are talking about skill i assume, let the metawhoring out and lets use stock- or unmodiefied championmechs and lets look that we both have them unleveled or leveled and not using modules.

[Fate 6]

PhoenixFire55, on 03 March 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

you were still 15+ minutes late. You also never provided the video evidence you claim you have.

Wrong and wrong.

We were all online at the scheduled time and did not receive a lobby invite until much after that time because the opposing team was scrambling to get organized. We had no problem with it at the time, until they took advantage of our generosity. In fact, as it was a rescheduled match, we were generous enough to give the other team the opportunity to play every drop including the ones they had fairly lost, but that has been held against us as well. Our team showed up when we were given the lobby invite, and we certainly did not take 15 minutes after that.
EDIT: that being said, if we are going by the clock and being accurate to the second, whose clock are we using? Certainly we cannot be impartial if we are giving a single player involved in a match the privilege of being timekeeper as well (to that level of accuracy, at least. Being a minute or two late might be different, but having the host team drop lobby at the instant they claim the other team to be late is an issue that should be addressed).

I also personally provided the video evidence to the refs, and the recordings are freely available on Youtube as well.


EDIT2: Also, claiming we were 15+ minutes late ignores the core problem here which is that there is apparently no scheduled time to send the lobby invite. If the match is scheduled for 9:30, shouldn't that be the scheduled time for the lobby invite as well? That is not in the rules, and that is what ultimately caused this dispute, because our team was not given 15 minutes after the actual match was created. I would expect, if our team were to even bother continuing with a league like MRBC where the rules are so openly abusable, that when we host we will send invites to the opposing teams at 9:44. We would be following the rules that are laid out. It's the opposing team's fault for not instantly being ready in lobby afterwards, apparently.

Edited by Fate 6, 03 March 2015 - 09:26 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

PhoenixFire55, on 03 March 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

Substitute MW4 for MW:O and it remains true.

Yes, it does, no one denies that, it's the first MW title in a decade, and it's far from perfect for ANYONE'S point of view, same as MW4.

If someone else could get the license and make a better game, this place would be empty, that's a fact.

[Shikata nai]

Galenit, on 03 March 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

If you want a challenge, then we should take it with even odds.

You are talking about skill i assume, let the metawhoring out and lets use stock- or unmodiefied championmechs and lets look that we both have them unleveled or leveled and not using modules.

lololol
Where is your point? You have the same options to level your Mech or to equip / unequip it with weapons and modules.
Guess you're just one of those low skillers getting shut down by ~3 clean alphas to the center because you dont know how to move and split damage and then complaining about Metamechs

[Mystere]

Styxx42, on 03 March 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

There is no reason except perceived loss of $$$ and control that leagues could not have their own hosted servers like back in the old days.This would mitigate congestion and even Internet issues if planned out well.But we can Thanks WOW for this OUR SERVERS ONLY mentality.

Perceived "loss of $$$" and "control" are big deals to businesses.

[cry-]

Galenit, on 03 March 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

If you want a challenge, then we should take it with even odds.

You are talking about skill i assume, let the metawhoring out and lets use stock- or unmodiefied championmechs and lets look that we both have them unleveled or leveled and not using modules.

Lol, my money is on PhoenixFire, plz record.

[Mcgral18]

Kristov Kerensky, on 03 March 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

Yes, it does, no one denies that, it's the first MW title in a decade, and it's far from perfect for ANYONE'S point of view, same as MW4.

If someone else could get the license and make a better game, this place would be empty, that's a fact.

There's always MWLL.

Played a bit last night. They did ACs and JJs pretty nicely compared to MWO. Gauss and PPCs have long recycles and hit hard.


Mechs feel...large, and slow. MWO does things much more smoothly, especially after that 50% acceleration, the twist speed and other efficiencies.


I prefer brawling in MWO, but MWLL feels more like mech combat, I suppose. Though, it also has tanks, hovertanks, VTOLs and Aerospace.


Also has some very pretty effects. Stackpoling is optional...and you can set the server to the % you prefer.


The issue it has is population. Two others were all I saw last night.


Here's a ShadowCat prime, just because.

[Mystere]

HiasRGB, on 03 March 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Go and zerg against PUG's in the Underhive.

That's not a good idea. The underhive will eat you folks alive, especially during weekend challenges.

[PhoenixFire55]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 03 March 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

The point was, Hardkor was attributing MW4's longevity to player leagues, ignoring that it was the only game in town.
It would be like me saying the only reason MWO is lasting this long is because of player leagues.

Well ... Starcraft is how many years old? And how many "casuals" still play it? Longevity is ALL about leagues and "competitive" or "hardcore" players.

Galenit, on 03 March 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

If you want a challenge, then we should take it with even odds.

You are talking about skill i assume, let the metawhoring out and lets use stock- or unmodiefied championmechs and lets look that we both have them unleveled or leveled and not using modules.

Trial mechs don't use any mech skills. If you want to do it on trials we can do it on trials.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 03 March 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

That's not a good idea. The underhive will eat you folks alive, especially during weekend challenges.

there is more truth to this than the 1337s will ever admit..always a good laugh when some self proclaimed comp Overlord solo drops and is almost invariably one of the first dead, then spends the rest of the match whinging.... more so when we win without their contribution.

[Mystere]

Dock Steward, on 03 March 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

To each their own. I will never understand why people need to constantly bash the way other people choose to play this game...

The 1% do that, always.

[Fate 6]

HARDKOR, on 03 March 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

A solid player made league would actually make it much more interesting

Maybe, but MRBC certainly isn't the "solid" league we need.