132 replies to this topic

[Impossible Wasabi]

Yep, it will assuredly be a glorious time for Clans in CW.

[ilKhan_OrHan]

The True Space Pope, on 02 March 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

Yep, it will assuredly be a glorious time for Clans in CW.

IS won't be competitive tech-wise until we get a time leap. IS only salvation in CW is superior tactics via experienced 12-mans working closely together.

[MikeBend]

Ultimatum X, on 02 March 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

It's not hard to be the best light mech, when so many other light mechs have bad hardpoints, bad quirks, bad hitboxes.

Yes, but when that makes you better than most mediums, there is a problem. When Firestarter is a 50% faster less heating laser boat than the Hunchback, there is a problem. When a mech moving at 150 kph shoots 3 alfas of 30+ in a row without overheating, there is a problem. Maybe lower engine cap is a bad idea, but obviously something needs to be done, as some Firestarter variants are overquirked beyond sane limits.

[Sean von Steinike]

lsp, on 02 March 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

I'm all for any nerf to the Firestarters, they are ridiculous. Light mechs shouldn't be able to brawl, period. Let alone do 600 damage and 6 kills.

Right, and because of that easy street, you rarely see the light mech queue drop under the heavy/assault and even mediums queues.......or not.

[MikeBend]

Sean von Steinike, on 02 March 2015 - 11:46 PM, said:

Right, and because of that easy street, you rarely see the light mech queue drop under the heavy/assault and even mediums queues.......or not.

Using queue numbers to tell if one particular chassie is overquirked. Thats top class

[Sean von Steinike]

MikeBend, on 03 March 2015 - 12:03 AM, said:

Using queue numbers to tell if one particular chassie is overquirked. Thats top class

He said light mechs shouldn't be able to brawl period.

[Ghogiel]

Someone explain why FS9s have way more and better quirks than Jenners when even before quirks came into the game the FS9 was more or less the superior light.

[Lordred]

Mellifluer, on 02 March 2015 - 06:29 PM, said:

in all honesty lordred. I advise you to go right now and buy every single non hero light (cept TDK, definitely get TDK its just so sexy...... ) play all of them till mastered then come back and tell me why your idea is bad.

I Pilot lights far more then anything else.

They are all mastered.

My Com-2D camera mech is equiped with a 150 engine rating.

My SPD-5D uses a 240 rating engine

My Locust 1V(P) uses a STD 160 (Always manages to piss off people when it loses a side torso and keeps running.

My JR7-K has a XL245 in it. (Yes, the one no one uses)

Heck even my Panthers are slow I have been enjoying it, one has a XL175, one a STD210, and the last an XL210

I practice what I preach.

Besides, you only quoted what I would do to lights.

I have bigger plans (that will never be put into effect, so meh, lets fight about it on the forums)

Edited by Lordred, 03 March 2015 - 12:32 AM.

[Xetelian]

Nerfing the firestarter to fix the jenner is silly. Buffing the Jenner to fix it would be optimal. Firestarters set the bar high so bring other lights onto par with energy generation, duration and other quirks to make the chassis appealing.

[Norbaer HALL]

Lordred, on 02 March 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

...
Spiders
SDR-5D: 60-240 (32.4kmh - 129.6km/h) (ECM)
SDR-5K: 60-270 (32.4kmh - 145.8km/h)
SDR-5V: 60-270 (32.4kmh - 145.8km/h)
SDR-AN: 60-270 (32.4kmh - 145.8km/h)

Urbanmechs
UM-R60: 60-90 (32.4kmh - 48.6km/h)
UM-R60L: 60-90 (32.4kmh - 48.6km/h)
UM-R63: 60-90 (32.4kmh - 48.6km/h)
...

The range of engine size for the Urbanmech is too small and the range for the Spider too big !

Urbanmechs should at least beeing able to use engines in the range 50-100 and the range of engines for the spiders should begin with the smallest engine for the spider beeing the biggest engine for the Urbanmech !
In addition the Spiders should be slowed down a bit more, as they are not the fastest lights in Classic BattleTech, they are famous for their many JumpJets !

Personally I would prefer 50-150 for the Urbanmech and 150-250 for the Spiders.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I swear to god, if you people influence the engine cap on the Urbanmech to be some ****** ass low # so that it will never even have a remote chance of being even useful..

We already have enough useless mechs as is..

Not to mention that's $40 bucks out the window.

Urban mech needs a top end of around 210 so it doesn't get totally shafted for lighter ballistic custom loadouts, or energy builds.

[Widowmaker1981]

ilKhan_OrHan, on 02 March 2015 - 08:42 PM, said:

You don't want to go slower in Inner Sphere lights. IS light speed is almost your only asset against Arctic Cheetah. It will be AC r@pe train as it is. Only superior pilot skill can save you in IS light vs AC. You won't have that advantage against me in my AC come July 21st. Assaults will get ninja-ed in record time.

Firestarter 28 point overall armor advantage vs AC is negated by AC sneaking up undetected per ECM and getting one or two alphas off before FS knows what hit hm. FS has no firepower, jj, or ECM advantage over AC. That leaves one category left for lights. Better be ready to haul ass back to the group.

FS is nerfed simply by being rendered obsolete by AC being released July 21st. No further nerfing is required.

Can't wait for those Clan AC light rushes in Community Warfare. Clans will march straight to Terra EVERY map reset even faster than now. IS CW win percentage will drop even lower below 60/40 Clans way as it is now. Since you have no Streak-6's, I hope you have good aim. Won't be targeting boxes on the AC rush per ECM. Joystick users may as well not enter the queue on IS side since you won't be hitting the AC much.

You are wrong. The Cheater will be an excellent mech, dont get me wrong - but it will get smashed into the ground by FS9-S and FS9-A in a brawl, due to short duration IS pulse lasers, and quirked heat efficiency. That is fine and as it should be though, since the firestarter doesnt have ECM or the same range.

Some people really dont understand the advantages of IS wub, its practically hitscan FLD.

[ilKhan_OrHan]

Widowmaker1981, on 03 March 2015 - 02:12 AM, said:

You are wrong. The Cheater will be an excellent mech, dont get me wrong - but it will get smashed into the ground by FS9-S and FS9-A in a brawl, due to short duration IS pulse lasers, and quirked heat efficiency. That is fine and as it should be though, since the firestarter doesnt have ECM or the same range.

Some people really dont understand the advantages of IS wub, its practically hitscan FLD.

You are wrong. This is more about pilot skill than beam duration and other IS energy quirks. Experienced FS9 pilots will devour n00b ACH pilots, which there will be plenty of considering the hype it has gotten, and vice versa. There are a ton of n00b FS9 pilots I own EZ per everyone wanting to use that mech.

Most of the time, they won't even get near a good ACH pilot per him seeing the FS9 from far away and having gotten in a few alphas before he can get in range with his IS Lasers. I guarantee he will be at least half dead before he is in IS Laser range unless you aren't very good. If you are worried about FS9s, use MERL and/or streaks. People used to say RVN-3L was god mode per streaks, what does that make ACH which is superior?

If you are out by yourself in an ACH and a FS9 pounces on you and kills you, you are just another bad light pilot, which make up the majority of light class pilots in MWO. The ones that die at the start of the round contributing no damage, who would have died in any light mech much less the ACH.

I can hold all of the beam from my LPL/ERML TBR meta build on a Firestarter, which incidentally takes 3 alphas or more sometimes because of hit registry. Keeping ERSL/SPL/ERML beams from ACH on the Firestarter isn't a big issue to me personally.

The Firestarter will get "smashed into the ground" from people like me and other experienced light pilots, former FS9 pilots for one. I out duel them in my SDR-5D, what hope do they have in my ACH? I don't foresee any serious tier rankings placing FS9 above ACH. FS9 pilots have only one true advantage over ACH pilots, the same advantage all IS mech pilots have over Clan mech pilots and that is experience overcoming the technological limitations of their respective mechs. That is, until they run into someone with the same or more experience in their Clan mechs, then it's game over.

TL:DR IS only wins when Clan pilot is noob

Edited by ilKhan_OrHan, 03 March 2015 - 05:17 AM.

[Sjorpha]

With the Arctic cheetah coming up as most probably the best light in the game, nerfing other lights is not a good idea at all. If anything the jenner needs a buff to match the firestarter, and the Raven needs it's huge invisible leg hitboxes reduced to match the model again.

Locusts are mostly fine for their tonnage except a few variants being underquirked (3M mainly), commandos need something, spiders need a significant something as they will be the closest comparison to the cheetah (same tonnage + ECM)

Adders and Mist lynxes needs love as well. Kit fox has good niche utility even if it is weak in some respects, so i'm not sure if it needs something or not, but if it does I'd prefer something that emphasizes the support role such as AMS/NARC/TAG buffs and the like rather than weapon buffs.

Playing as IS trying to counter CW the new clan rush tactics with 12 ECM lights with the firepower and speed(almost) of firestarters and no access to streakboats is going to be...well interesting.

Edited by Sjorpha, 03 March 2015 - 04:08 AM.

[Brother MEX]

Mister D, on 03 March 2015 - 01:25 AM, said:

I swear to god, if you people influence the engine cap on the Urbanmech to be some ****** ass low # so that it will never even have a remote chance of being even useful..

We already have enough useless mechs as is..

Not to mention that's $40 bucks out the window.

Urban mech needs a top end of around 210 so it doesn't get totally shafted for lighter ballistic custom loadouts, or energy builds.

I also bought the Collecters Edition Urbie, and I would be very surprised if you could put a engine bigger than 150 into it !

The Urbie always has been a heavy weapons platform ... for lighter ballistic custom loadouts you can already use the Spider, with a engine of 100 or bigger !

And as the Spider shouldnt be as FAT as a Urbie, it should also be harder to hit !

[Tahribator]

Ghogiel, on 03 March 2015 - 12:14 AM, said:

Someone explain why FS9s have way more and better quirks than Jenners when even before quirks came into the game the FS9 was more or less the superior light.

Not "FS9s" but "Ember". Every other FS was considered garbage prior to quirks, no matter how much they actually improved upon the flawed Jenner on paper. Why? Because they were ridiculously hot. They sucked at peeking unlike Jenner. They also couldn't capitalize on their energy hardpoints without cooking themselves and especially pulse lasers were out of the equation.

Check out Gman129's competitive tier list (I hate tier lists, but there you go) from 10th of October 2014:

Quote

Lights

Tier 1: Firestarter Ember | Jenner JR7-F

Tier 2: Raven RVN-3L | Kit Fox FKX-Prime/D/S | Spider SDR-5D | Jenner Oxide

Tier 3: Raven RVN-3L | Jenner JR7-D

The Firestarter is only mentioned once, and that is because 4xML+4xMG build was ridiculously good in the pre-quirk era. Nowhere else you see FS9A-H-K-S, because they were absolutely horrible. So what happened? Again, quirks happened. A can finally utilize all of its hardpoints, H can have cooler lasers and K can have ridiculous cooling efficiency with pulses.

Now I'm not saying nerf FS' to ground, but PGI shouldn't allow them to dominate the light bracket purely due to quirks. Either buff other lights to FS levels of firepower or bring FS into line with other lights.

Edited by Tahribator, 03 March 2015 - 04:08 AM.

[ilKhan_OrHan]

Sjorpha, on 03 March 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

With the Arctic cheetah coming up as most probably the best light in the game, nerfing other lights is not a good idea at all. If anything the jenner needs a buff to match the firestarter, and the Raven needs it's huge invisible leg hitboxes reduced to match the model again.

Locusts are mostly fine for their tonnage except a few variants being underquirked (3M mainly), commandos need something, spiders need a significant something as they will be the closest comparison to the cheetah (same tonnage + ECM)

Adders and Mist lynxes needs love as well. Kit fox has good niche utility even if it is weak in some respects, so i'm not sure if it needs something or not, but if it does I'd prefer something that emphasizes the support role such as AMS/NARC/TAG buffs and the like rather than weapon buffs.

Playing as IS trying to counter CW the new clan rush tactics with 12 ECM lights with the firepower and speed(almost) of firestarters and no access to streakboats is going to be...well interesting.

Russ Bullock said this was the last major IS quirk pass planned that we just had. ACH is better than all these previous light mechs per "planned obsolescence". That is, there is a "power creep" to keep players grinding away at newer, more superior mechs to keep people playing their game over the years. If they released all the god tier mechs at launch, why would you play it now? There would be nothing left to prove. Unfortunately, Clan has all the god tier mechs, but that is the original TT game designers fault, not PGI's.

The "power creep" will swing back Inner Sphere's way with time leaps but only after a serious ass kicking from Clan tech in the interim.

Edited by ilKhan_OrHan, 03 March 2015 - 04:20 AM.

[Myke Pantera]

Nope, this ship has sailed!

They could have gone for 285 or something like this, but now that people have bought themselves several XL295 engines, there is no going back I'm afraid.

In TT the firestarter goes only one hex less than the Jenner, and the step from 295 to 300 is a major step for DHS depending mechs. When the FS9 was released, the JR7 was still the best energy light. Quirks made the FS9 better, not the engine rating.

[StraferX]

Well I am in the court of if you want to nerf light mechs than we need to nerf the insane high alpha meta we now have or put a cap on how many mechs can carry LRM in a drop.

Since we now have the Panther I mostly use the 9R instead of the firestarter and get just as great of results, sometimes I feel like playing ranged game so I'll take my Raven and provide ECM and sniper support. Most days I pilot my Grf-3m because firestarter tears are delicious.

[ilKhan_OrHan]

StraferX, on 03 March 2015 - 04:42 AM, said:

Well I am in the court of if you want to nerf light mechs than we need to nerf the insane high alpha meta we now have or put a cap on how many mechs can carry LRM in a drop.

Since we now have the Panther I mostly use the 9R instead of the firestarter and get just as great of results, sometimes I feel like playing ranged game so I'll take my Raven and provide ECM and sniper support. Most days I pilot my Grf-3m because firestarter tears are delicious.

The "insane high alpha meta" has already been nerfed. It's called "ghost heat" and it's to stop the best players from one shotting the ones that aren't. That and the armor value being doubled from table top. Lights have it crazy good in this game with effective double and triple the already high preset armor values per lag shield.

July 21st, enter the ACH [Redacted] train

Edited by GM Patience, 18 March 2015 - 01:32 PM.