26 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

So. I don't claim this is a fully formed idea...or even a good one!

But while looking at some builds, I had a sorta epiphanistic moment.

Some folks complain about the lack of customization (ridiculous, in most cases, but true), and we have some mechs that DESPERATELY are hurt by hardpoint locations, etc. (Mist Lynx, Summoner, Panther to a degree, etc)

So.

(And I have no idea how hard it would be to code it, so apologies to PGI if I am asking for a real headache, lol. I know adding hardpoint meshes would...be a little time consuming, but hey, not all visuals line up anyhow, yet, so ya know, they can take a little time for visuals)


How about a Hardpoint Customization Module?

Do what, exactly? Glad you asked.

Basically, it would be an obscenely expensive module, due to balance concerns, and use up a "Mech Module" slot, so it would not be done lightly.

What would it do, how would it work? Well, details are subject to change, based on further brainstorming, reality, people pointing out the inherent flaws I have overlooked, etc..... BUT.....


Basically, there would be 3 basic types, "Ballistic, Missile and Energy".
They would further be broken down by Location: Right Arm, Left Arm, Left Torso, Right Torso, Center Torso and Head.

So, the modules would look like:
-Ballistic: Right Arm
-Ballistic: Right Torso
etc

So, let's use the Panther for example. Let's say (it's a bad build for MWO, but it was a decent one in level one TT, bear with me) You didn't want the missiles, but you wanted lasers in the Left Arm, for some reason.

So you GXP up, and purchase a "Energy Hardpoint/Left Arm" Customization module. Now, you have 1 single energy hardpoint in the LA. But wait! There's more! Lets say you wanted TWO lasers there?!?!?! They're STACKABLE!!!! So by installing 2 Hardpoint Customization Modules, you now can add 2 lasers to that arrm.

So basically, for those who want to run a "off book" variant of a mech, you can now do so, but not without cost, for the sake of science and balance! Because that shiny new Autocannon comes at the expense of your Radar Derp module, or Seismic, etc.

Was also thinking it could be expanded for other things, like AMS, maybe JJs, and maybe (but probably would have to make it real expensive and take 2 slots?) ECM?

Anyhow, just a thought, like I said, but seemed....viable.

Am I nuts? (ok...don't answer that.... I meant, uh...would it work/interest you?)

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Have you been robotrippin lately, Bishop?

[Tuefel Hunden]

Yes, you're nuts.

However, that is an interesting idea.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Am I nuts? (ok...don't answer that.... I meant, uh...would it work/interest you?)

I'm gonna answer that anyways. The answer is yes.


To the idea itself, it's a can of worms waiting to be unleashed. Some specific mechs do need it, but the problem with this is that every mech available has access to at least 1 mech module slot. This would indirectly benefit some mechs that probably don't need more benefit...

I think we should deal with the outliers (like the Pan or MLX w/e) on a case-by-case basis instead of buffing everyone by the same amount. Making it cost a crapton of monopoly money wouldn't balance it because spacebucks are a potentially infinite (albeit slow to acquire) resource that can be sped up with real life monies.


This doesn't even get into the sheer amount of labor it would require. They're already jam-packed as it is with all of the gundam preorder packs they need to model, and we keep getting new preorder packs on a constant basis...

Edited by FupDup, 02 March 2015 - 09:15 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 02 March 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

I'm gonna answer that anyways. The answer is yes.


To the idea itself, it's a can of worms waiting to be unleashed. Some specific mechs do need it, but the problem with this is that every mech available has access to at least 1 mech module slot. This would indirectly benefit some mechs that probably don't need more benefit...

I think we should deal with the outliers (like the Pan or MLX w/e) on a case-by-case basis instead of buffing everyone by the same amount. Making it cost a crapton of monopoly money wouldn't balance it because spacebucks are a potentially infinite (albeit slow to acquire) resource that can be sped up with real life monies.


This doesn't even get into the sheer amount of labor it would require. They're already jam-packed as it is with all of the gundam preorder packs they need to model, and we keep getting new preorder packs on a constant basis...

Yes, but how many already good mechs will sacrifice their seismic or radar derp for another weapon slot?

[Myke Pantera]

Hmmmm... Rather not, although interesting idea

How about choose your own quirks for greater build flexibility, great powercreep and better Clan vs IS balance...

Ok, now I'm nuts as well... Thanks man!

Edited by Myke Pantera, 02 March 2015 - 09:22 AM.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

Yes, but how many already good mechs will sacrifice their seismic or radar derp for another weapon slot?

I'd do it on the 1N to get triple AC5s.

The idea has merit, but it needs some extensive thought and refinement.

[Gamuray]

Sounds good in theory... but keeping in mind that there will obviously be much more of a balancing problem than cost can make up for. I'd suggest it be a hardpoint inflation module. Adds an additional hardpoint of the same type to a location already holding said hardpoint. Max One.

^That, may be a bit more balanced. This way we don't have torso ballistic crabs

[Bishop Steiner]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 02 March 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

I'd do it on the 1N to get triple AC5s.

The idea has merit, but it needs some extensive thought and refinement.

where would you get the tonnage for that third ac5? (Mind you I agree some mechs will have that ability, just...dunno about the 1N...)

Gamuray, on 02 March 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

Sounds good in theory... but keeping in mind that there will obviously be much more of a balancing problem than cost can make up for. I'd suggest it be a hardpoint inflation module. Adds an additional hardpoint of the same type to a location already holding said hardpoint. Max One.

^That, may be a bit more balanced. This way we don't have torso ballistic crabs

yeah, but it would totally take away the point, such as letting a Mist Lynx have guns NOT in it's arms.

But yes, my master plan to take over MWO will need some refinement.....

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

where would you get the tonnage for that third ac5? (Mind you I agree some mechs will have that ability, just...dunno about the 1N...)

Right here:

DRG-1N

8 tons free, enough for an IS-AC5.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

Yes, but how many already good mechs will sacrifice their seismic or radar derp for another weapon slot?

Depends on the robot in question...

I'm sure somebody who has the quirks list memorized could think of some obnoxious min-max monster with it. I can't think of any specifics off the top of my head but for my own personal amusement I would love to troll people with a 4 LRM5 Panther.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 02 March 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

Right here:

DRG-1N

8 tons free, enough for an IS-AC5.

and out of ammo in 60 seconds. But a fun 60 seconds.
Better DRG-1N

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 March 2015 - 09:26 AM.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

and out of ammo in 60 seconds. But a fun 60 seconds.

Never said it had any endurance, just space for the guns and some bullets... could get more, by going under 300 XL though...

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

where would you get the tonnage for that third ac5? (Mind you I agree some mechs will have that ability, just...dunno about the 1N...)


yeah, but it would totally take away the point, such as letting a Mist Lynx have guns NOT in it's arms.

But yes, my master plan to take over MWO will need some refinement.....

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...69028a0ded7273f

Replace the LPL and AC10 ammo with another AC5.

It would be...interesting.

[warner2]

I stopped reading after

Quote

Basically, it would be an obscenely expensive module, due to balance concerns

You can't balance something by making it expensive.

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

So. I don't claim this is a fully formed idea...or even a good one!

But while looking at some builds, I had a sorta epiphanistic moment.

Some folks complain about the lack of customization (ridiculous, in most cases, but true), and we have some mechs that DESPERATELY are hurt by hardpoint locations, etc. (Mist Lynx, Summoner, Panther to a degree, etc)

So.

(And I have no idea how hard it would be to code it, so apologies to PGI if I am asking for a real headache, lol. I know adding hardpoint meshes would...be a little time consuming, but hey, not all visuals line up anyhow, yet, so ya know, they can take a little time for visuals)


How about a Hardpoint Customization Module?

Do what, exactly? Glad you asked.

Basically, it would be an obscenely expensive module, due to balance concerns, and use up a "Mech Module" slot, so it would not be done lightly.

What would it do, how would it work? Well, details are subject to change, based on further brainstorming, reality, people pointing out the inherent flaws I have overlooked, etc..... BUT.....


Basically, there would be 3 basic types, "Ballistic, Missile and Energy".
They would further be broken down by Location: Right Arm, Left Arm, Left Torso, Right Torso, Center Torso and Head.

So, the modules would look like:
-Ballistic: Right Arm
-Ballistic: Right Torso
etc

So, let's use the Panther for example. Let's say (it's a bad build for MWO, but it was a decent one in level one TT, bear with me) You didn't want the missiles, but you wanted lasers in the Left Arm, for some reason.

So you GXP up, and purchase a "Energy Hardpoint/Left Arm" Customization module. Now, you have 1 single energy hardpoint in the LA. But wait! There's more! Lets say you wanted TWO lasers there?!?!?! They're STACKABLE!!!! So by installing 2 Hardpoint Customization Modules, you now can add 2 lasers to that arrm.

So basically, for those who want to run a "off book" variant of a mech, you can now do so, but not without cost, for the sake of science and balance! Because that shiny new Autocannon comes at the expense of your Radar Derp module, or Seismic, etc.

Was also thinking it could be expanded for other things, like AMS, maybe JJs, and maybe (but probably would have to make it real expensive and take 2 slots?) ECM?

Anyhow, just a thought, like I said, but seemed....viable.

Am I nuts? (ok...don't answer that.... I meant, uh...would it work/interest you?)

It is certainly and interesting idea, and it reminds me of those custom refits certain pilots in lore made. That being said those custom refits are what ended up as our hero mechs for the most part. I also wonder what the implication for this would be in comparison to Clan machs. Allowing hard point changes on IS mechs even if limited takes away one of the unique perks of Clan omnipods. Still I like the idea. Perhaps add a new experience tier to the mech tree after master that unlocks the ability to use these mods on the mech?

[Bhael Fire]

I like crazy. Ship it.

[Bishop Steiner]

warner2, on 02 March 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

I stopped reading after



You can't balance something by making it expensive.

huh...dang shame that was the only balancer mentioned in the OP...........

WarHippy, on 02 March 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

It is certainly and interesting idea, and it reminds me of those custom refits certain pilots in lore made. That being said those custom refits are what ended up as our hero mechs for the most part. I also wonder what the implication for this would be in comparison to Clan machs. Allowing hard point changes on IS mechs even if limited takes away one of the unique perks of Clan omnipods. Still I like the idea. Perhaps add a new experience tier to the mech tree after master that unlocks the ability to use these mods on the mech?

I'd be down with that. 100,000 xp?

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

I'd be down with that. 100,000 xp?

I was actually thinking the same thing for the amount. Of course that also had me thinking about how badly the trees need to be redone as there is so much potential there for interesting things like this.

[Almond Brown]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

where would you get the tonnage for that third ac5? (Mind you I agree some mechs will have that ability, just...dunno about the 1N...)

yeah, but it would totally take away the point, such as letting a Mist Lynx have guns NOT in it's arms.

But yes, my master plan to take over MWO will need some refinement.....

Ok, I was not so sure about the "ADD a weapon" slot idea. Many would give up "personal parts" for more guns. RDerp and Wall Hack be damned.

But a "MOVE a weapon slot" module might be doable. If I have space in a Torso, move a weapon slot already in an arm to said torso. No balance issue as there is no "added creep". Weapon moved must remain same "family" type.

Edited by Almond Brown, 02 March 2015 - 09:53 AM.