136 replies to this topic

[General Solo]

stratagos, on 02 March 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

IS trolls are OP compared to Clan trolls

hopterque, on 02 March 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Now this is a truth everyone can agree with.

Indeed True

kamiko kross, on 09 March 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

I agree too, you chaps are in a league of your own. You can be amusing and disrespecting in the same sentence.
Dear coordinator must be very proud!

Who said what?
Hopterque was quoting stratagos



(Iam a interwebz illiterate, can't do the quote in quote in quote thing, above my pay grade , must learn nesting )

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 10 March 2015 - 03:47 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

OZHomerOZ, on 10 March 2015 - 02:51 AM, said:

(Iam a interwebz illiterate, can't do the quote in quote in quote thing, above my pay grade , must learn nesting )

You can copy and paste quotes into each other. Not sure if there is an easier way.

kamiko kross, on 09 March 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

hopterque, on 02 March 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

stratagos, on 02 March 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

IS trolls are OP compared to Clan trolls

Now this is a truth everyone can agree with.

I agree too, you chaps are in a league of your own. You can be amusing and disrespecting in the same sentence.
Dear coordinator must be very proud!

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

Vincent V., on 08 March 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

Opie you mean?

Naw but maybe Opie

[Davegt27]

I never call someone a troll I just call it the Clan propaganda machine

They use the idea of lore to have the game tweaked so they win
They cry so that there Mechs overheat less
They cry so the maps are actually changed to make it harder for lights to rush
They cry and get the terror of the T-bolt ERPPC eliminated
They constantly cry about LRMs
They cry and say IS Mechs are better for this or that reason
They cry about ECM until they get an ECM Heavy (with its super ECM)
They cry about IS lights all the time
They cry about IS crying
They do so much crying every thread soon becomes dominated by Clan propaganda

[Gyrok]

Davegt27, on 11 March 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

I never call someone a troll I just call it the Clan propaganda machine

They use the idea of lore to have the game tweaked so they win
They cry so that there Mechs overheat less
They cry so the maps are actually changed to make it harder for lights to rush
They cry and get the terror of the T-bolt ERPPC eliminated
They constantly cry about LRMs
They cry and say IS Mechs are better for this or that reason
They cry about ECM until they get an ECM Heavy (with its super ECM)
They cry about IS lights all the time
They cry about IS crying
They do so much crying every thread soon becomes dominated by Clan propaganda

WTF?? Did you even read the OP? The IS cries in spite of the fact that their quirked mechs are STRONGER than equivalent clan mech builds.

Who is a propaganda machine?

[General Solo]

Thanks Rouken

[LifelesssGraphitePlanet]

Gyrok, on 11 March 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

STRONGER than equivalent clan mech builds.

Who is a propaganda machine?

What IS mechs are equivalent to the Stormcrow, Hellbringer and the Timberwolf?

Find me a 45ton IS mech with as much armor as the Stormcrow, which can boat SRMs and move at a similar speed.
Find me a 65ton IS mech with ECM.
Find me a 75ton IS mech with as much armor, hardpoint versatility and speed as the Timberwolf.

I won't hold my breath waiting.

[jeirhart]

LifelesssGraphitePlanet, on 15 March 2015 - 05:09 AM, said:

What IS mechs are equivalent to the Stormcrow, Hellbringer and the Timberwolf?

Find me a 45ton IS mech with as much armor as the Stormcrow, which can boat SRMs and move at a similar speed.
Find me a 65ton IS mech with ECM.
Find me a 75ton IS mech with as much armor, hardpoint versatility and speed as the Timberwolf.

I won't hold my breath waiting.

Well first of all a Stormcrow is a 55 ton 'mech.

If you are an Inner Sphere player you are not looking to make an "equivalent" to the Stormcrow, Hellbringer, or Timber Wolf. You are looking for a counter. Options include but not limited to:

STK-4N - You can lose half your 'mech and still dish out good damage at great range. Front load armor and tank for days. Cycle the LL if you get heated.
AS7-DC - Here is your tanky ECM 'mech. Great armor and crushing at close range (Sulfur?)
BNC-3E - Pick your poison, AC/5s or Lasers. Why not both?

TDR-5SS - Butcher any clan 'mech at close range with your insane quirks.
DRG-1N - Do not let the low alpha scare you. The DPS this monster puts out with any dual AC/5 build is nuts.
JM6-S - Dual Gauss can never be ignored. Pin-point 30 alpha will rip through components.

GRF-3M - Dump your alpha and shield. Repeat until enemy dead.
SHD-2K - Long range poke for days.
HBK-4P - All the lasers with quirks backing you up.

RVN-2X - Quirks make the formerly useless RVN a light powerhouse.
FS9-A - Chew through legs and lightly-armored rear torsos.
RVN-3L - Do work from range. Hide your teammates in your ECM bubble.

Edited by jeirhart, 15 March 2015 - 05:59 AM.

[LifelesssGraphitePlanet]

o7 Jeirhart, thanks for the well thought out response.
And yeah, pardon me about the Stormcrow, you're right.

Your argument regarding "counters" is a bit redundant in my opinion, since we're talking about CW here... the utility of having 4 Hellbringers on field at any given time can't really be countered by much in my opinion. We're not talking about one on one battles, the combinations of those 3 mechs I mentioned in a drop deck can be nothing short of devastating.
Obviously the fact that IS teams do often win games doesn't mean it's hopelessly OP... but I think that it's much easier for a clan team to overpower an IS team than the contrary.

The assault mechs you mentioned are definitely tanky, of course. But the issue doesn't only lie with damage output. Of course the STK-4N delivers at range, and the BNC-3E can be pretty devastating, but I contend that a good pilot in a TBR could probably solo all three of those mechs. By virtue of it's maneuverability alone the TBR can outclass just about anything 20 tons either side of it. I don't only play IS mechs, in my TBR I've been able to pull off some absolutely ridiculous plays. I don't really think any IS mech in the 65-75 ton range comes close to the combination of speed/agility/firepower the TBR has. I'm not going to whine endlessly about it though. Just stating the way I see it.

Of course the DDC is an absolute tank with ECM, but it still doesn't really compare with the Hellbringer, which is close to twice it's speed, and definitely twice as maneuverable. But the Atlas has always been an underperformer, and playing an Atlas you'll be a sitting duck for the much better armed and armored Clan assaults, such as the DWF and WHK, and soon to be - Executioner.

I run a 5SS myself, and I'll definitely agree that it's damage output is quite devastating, and has very nice quirks... but it will still generally come off second best to a Timber Wolf. The Hunchback is also a notorious underperformer, in my opinion.

I will agree with the light mechs you mentioned. Together with the Huginn, who's quirks are just absolute nonsense... IS lights are definitely much better than their clan equivalents. The RVN-3L is a must have in a CW drop deck.
Even a heavily armored 3L can be one shotted from behind by a streak/ SRMcrow though.

Thanks for the time taken in your reply.

Edited by LifelesssGraphitePlanet, 15 March 2015 - 06:26 AM.

[White Bear 84]

Clans are OP cause they nerfed our 9Sppc vomit machine.

[KraftySOT]

jeirhart, on 15 March 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

STK-4N - You can lose half your 'mech and still dish out good damage at great range. Front load armor and tank for days. Cycle the LL if you get heated.

BNC-3M

Here are the ACTUAL counters to the Doomcrow.

Notice that they are both assault mechs.

IS mechs are OP apparently.

The rest of those listed range from viable, to bad.

[Jagg3d]

KraftySOT, on 15 March 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

Here are the ACTUAL counters to the Doomcrow.

Notice that they are both assault mechs.

IS mechs are OP apparently.

The rest of those listed range from viable, to bad.

LOL. you forget the mention those IS assults vs a Timber is easy prey.

[Gyrok]

LifelesssGraphitePlanet, on 15 March 2015 - 06:23 AM, said:

The assault mechs you mentioned are definitely tanky, of course. But the issue doesn't only lie with damage output. Of course the STK-4N delivers at range, and the BNC-3E can be pretty devastating, but I contend that a good pilot in a TBR could probably solo all three of those mechs. By virtue of it's maneuverability alone the TBR can outclass just about anything 20 tons either side of it. I don't only play IS mechs, in my TBR I've been able to pull off some absolutely ridiculous plays. I don't really think any IS mech in the 65-75 ton range comes close to the combination of speed/agility/firepower the TBR has. I'm not going to whine endlessly about it though. Just stating the way I see it.

Of course the DDC is an absolute tank with ECM, but it still doesn't really compare with the Hellbringer, which is close to twice it's speed, and definitely twice as maneuverable. But the Atlas has always been an underperformer, and playing an Atlas you'll be a sitting duck for the much better armed and armored Clan assaults, such as the DWF and WHK, and soon to be - Executioner.

I run a 5SS myself, and I'll definitely agree that it's damage output is quite devastating, and has very nice quirks... but it will still generally come off second best to a Timber Wolf. The Hunchback is also a notorious underperformer, in my opinion.

See, you think of this in terms of absolutes.

You are not taking positioning into consideration at all in your remarks. Which is a key part of why clans players tend to win a bit more. Many of them, in my experience, understand such things.

Consider the 6LL STK-4N. It puts out superior DPS after quirks compared to clan laser vomit on a TW. Meaning you can sustain your output consistently better, and you have significantly lower face time with drastically less beam duration over clans. Also, if you are playing a sniper stalker, you should be positioning yourself in such a manner that your enemy has a long way to go to use maneuverability to any advantage. Considering you get all 6 lasers to an effective range of 653m on the STK, and TW laser vomit has a max fully effective range of 446m, you have a 200m+ range advantage to put your 54 pt alpha onto that TW.

This is but one example, and I hope you realize that your TDR-5SS puts out more sustained damage upclose than a TW would, and if you are losing to TW pilots under 363m, you should certainly look at ways to improve, because equal skill, the 5SS should win.

IS mechs, in many instances, are flat out superior in terms of damage output and buffed internal structure compared to clans. You just have to know how to take advantage of that to play them well.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Dawnstealer, on 02 March 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

Right, so you're cool with getting our 9S back?

If the Warhawk got similar treatment

I wouldnt mind 15 PPD(obviously not on the other 9s), 1350ms velocity, 25% reduction in heat generation, 25% increase to heat cooling efficiency, 12.5% range boost and a 12.5% cool down boost, along side masteries and modules.....

[Gorgo7]

MY INNERSPHERE MECHS RULE! I WAVE MY PRIVATE PARTS AT THE OP!

[Dino Might]

All this talk of which mechs are OP is just unsubstantiated propaganda. If you want the real truth....it's not Clans, or IS. The severe imbalance comes from mechs of one specific type:

Dino's mechs are OP. Nerf Dino's mechs, or the game will suffer an unplayable state anytime you get a group of 12 Dino's dropping together.

Seriously, PGI, fix this...

I have proposed the following balance fixes:

All Dino lasers -50% range, +200% heat, and +100% (slower) cooldown.
All Dino ballistics have an 80% jam rate (regular ACs and Gauss included - just won't fire 80% of the time).
All Dino missiles have 50% to explode in tube and deal internal damage equivalent to full volley firepower.

^ only way to right the past transgressions of this guy...

[MahKraah]

i am a is loyalist and since cw i play is mechs only.
i also was courious on how the clanmechs are and as the stormcrow came out for c-bills i bought all 3 to find out.
after i dont intend to play on the clanside ever i sold them again after eliting one to free up mechslots for cw.

now if i look onto the mechstats , my IS chassies do have a k/d between 1.1 and 1.8
my stormcrows 3.2-3.7

there is one mech, i rebought after quirkintroduction, thats the dragon 1n and he has a k/d of 3.4

this is my personal experience and it tells me that clan tech is superior untill IS recive insane quirks like the dragon.
my experiance was that the crow has the firepower of the biggest heavys with the speed of the fastest mediums without the downside of IS xl-engines
what impressed me most was its durability and that the secondary armarment , med lasers, easy have the quality of a main armarment, range close to the IS large laser with just one ton of weight. weight of components compared to its effectivity is unmatched.

with the quirks and tactics tailormade to fit those quirked mechs the IS can actualy stand up to the clans but only if the dropdeck sports the most quirked mechs only.

[Mark Brandhauber]

First I own all the clan mechs so this is not from a blind perspective, as previously mentioned inner sphere lights are currently superior to clan lights this true (the advent of the hankyu may change this), the only inner sphere mechs that come close to matching clan mechs in similar weight classes (barring lights) are the ones that have the most focussed quirks with larger bonus.
Not addressing any specific clan chassis there are several plain advantages
Find me an inner sphere equivalent to clan XL engines (clan XL's have no noticeable downside), find me an inner sphere equivalent to the clan streak 6s and 4s, find me an inner sphere equivalent to clan CASE, I think you will struggle.

[Jman5]

Gyrok, on 15 March 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

See, you think of this in terms of absolutes.

You are not taking positioning into consideration at all in your remarks. Which is a key part of why clans players tend to win a bit more. Many of them, in my experience, understand such things.

Consider the 6LL STK-4N. It puts out superior DPS after quirks compared to clan laser vomit on a TW. Meaning you can sustain your output consistently better, and you have significantly lower face time with drastically less beam duration over clans. Also, if you are playing a sniper stalker, you should be positioning yourself in such a manner that your enemy has a long way to go to use maneuverability to any advantage. Considering you get all 6 lasers to an effective range of 653m on the STK, and TW laser vomit has a max fully effective range of 446m, you have a 200m+ range advantage to put your 54 pt alpha onto that TW.

This is but one example, and I hope you realize that your TDR-5SS puts out more sustained damage upclose than a TW would, and if you are losing to TW pilots under 363m, you should certainly look at ways to improve, because equal skill, the 5SS should win.

IS mechs, in many instances, are flat out superior in terms of damage output and buffed internal structure compared to clans. You just have to know how to take advantage of that to play them well.

Your Stalker numbers are wrong. IS Large Laser has a 450 meter base optimal range. With the stalker 4N quirks that only goes up to 540m, and 585m with max range module.

Assuming the TW only went medium lasers it's 445 meters vs 585 meters which is just 140 meters not 200+. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I see a lot of TW laser vomit builds incorporate Large Pulse Lasers into their build. Those have 660 meter optimal range with module.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Jman5, on 18 March 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

Your Stalker numbers are wrong. IS Large Laser has a 450 meter base optimal range. With the stalker 4N quirks that only goes up to 540m, and 585m with max range module.

Assuming the TW only went medium lasers it's 445 meters vs 585 meters which is just 140 meters not 200+. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I see a lot of TW laser vomit builds incorporate Large Pulse Lasers into their build. Those have 660 meter optimal range with module.

TW laser vomit build optimal range maxes out at ML range, which many people trying to make their case about IS being so underpowered tend to just glance over and think that cERMLs do full damage out to like 700M

54pt Alpha can only be achieved @ 445M max (with module) 660M you lost over half of your damage from MLs. For a massive amount of heat I might add.

On that note, the 5ss MPLs do full 42 DMG damage up to 363M and can fire 2 alphas in the time it takes TW to get ready to fire its second alpha, for less heat.

Edited by shad0w4life, 18 March 2015 - 12:30 PM.