83 replies to this topic

[mogs01gt]

Thorqemada, on 03 March 2015 - 05:58 AM, said:

Honestly - if you do not want jumpjet get a Hunchback and if you do want jumpjet get a Shadow Hawk - the Centurion is the weakest of this Mechs as you have to expose the most of your Mech to shot and the CN9 Main-Armament in the Right Arm is still way more vulnerable than the Torso-Weapons in the HBK or SHD.

Quirks and/or 3d-Gameplay-Reality stomped over the Centurion and left a mere Shadow from what was once a Durability-Monster.

WTF are you smoking? The CN9-AH is arguably the best IS medium in the game.. The Hunchback has the same issue it always has, the RT can be hit anywhere. The Shawk is a **** mech to pilot compared to other IS mediums since its movement feels more like a Quickdraw.

Edited by mogs01gt, 03 March 2015 - 06:12 AM.

[Veritae]

Escef, on 03 March 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

Comparing the SHDs to the CN9s... Look, I love my CN9s, but they have few advantages over the SHDs. The massive left arm shield for defensive twisting goodness. Maybe the mobility of that right arm weapon on the A, AL, and D. And the ability of the YLW and AH to combine an XL engine with an AC20 (an Inner Sphere AC20 moving at 90 to 106 kph is scary).

SHDs have tanky hitboxes, jump jets, a high mounted ballistic (or high mounted energy on the 2K), responsive arm energy hardpoints (all but the 2K), decent speed... I mean, the 2D or 2D2 are damn near perfect. Hell, the 275 standard engine most of them come with is usable if you're on a tight c-bill budget.

Both mechs can be SRM bombers (or pocket LRM boats) if you want.

I pretty much always recommend the 2D or 2D2 Shadowhawks as great first mechs for new players, because you can do almost anything on them. AC20? Sure, with jump jets if you like as well. Missile boat; LRM, SRM, or Streak? You have 3 or 4 missile hardpoints, go to town. Fast mech? You can cram up to a 360 engine in there, 116 fast enough for you? Long range energy? You can poptart with the arm points (or instead opt for the 2K Shadowhawk, which also does missiles decently). About the only thing you can't do is be a dedicated energy boat.

Could not have said it better than this. IMHO, the Shadowhawk is the best IS training mech in the game. You can run Any weapon system, add speed, jump jets and great hitboxes for XL. Great value for the cost, and once you have them mastered, you'll be ready to look at specific quirks on all the other mediums to suit your playstyle. If you decide that you love a ST ac20, invest in the Hunchie. If you would really like your ac20 to be more responsive, get a cent for the right arm. Prefer more energy or even greater mobility, how about a griffin?

Either way, as a unified weapons platform, you can TRY everything with a Shawk.

[mogs01gt]

Veritae, on 03 March 2015 - 06:13 AM, said:

Could not have said it better than this. IMHO, the Shadowhawk is the best IS training mech in the game. You can run Any weapon system, add speed, jump jets and great hitboxes for XL. Great value for the cost, and once you have them mastered, you'll be ready to look at specific quirks on all the other mediums to suit your playstyle. If you decide that you love a ST ac20, invest in the Hunchie. If you would really like your ac20 to be more responsive, get a cent for the right arm. Prefer more energy or even greater mobility, how about a griffin?

Either way, as a unified weapons platform, you can TRY everything with a Shawk.

That is the biggest benefit to the Shawks. They are extremely versatile which allows new players to try different builds.

Edited by mogs01gt, 03 March 2015 - 06:15 AM.

[KharnZor]

mogs01gt, on 03 March 2015 - 06:11 AM, said:

WTF are you smoking? The CN9-AH is arguably the best IS medium in the game.. The Hunchback has the same issue it always has, the RT can be hit anywhere. The Shawk is a **** mech to pilot compared to other IS mediums since its movement feels more like a Quickdraw.

I say sir, what are you smoking? The shad far outclasses the cent in both durability and agility and is the superior mech of the two. It also rolls damage like a boss making XL engines a viable option even for a brawler.
As for the hunchback, the 4G far outclasses both in sheer firepower and in the hands of an experienced pilot will obliterate both in short order.

[Bishop Steiner]

Drakuba, on 03 March 2015 - 03:01 AM, said:

I like survivability in mech, having both arms blown away, liping with one leg, side torsos practicaly gone and still fighting, thats what im looking for Im not much of a fan of XL engines and i almost never use them (except catapults).
I like to brawl, close range brawls are one of the most entertaining things i found on this game and i always looking forward to those brawls on the end of a round.
But how about overall survivability? I remember seing cents without arms and only with one torso roaming the map almost all the time in beta, does hawks have similar durability?
JJ are fine, but medium mechs are fast enough so its not that high on my list

and yeah, i totaly forgot about hunchbacks, but i remember them being "dehunched" all the time, hence almost useless...

Medium Mechs are my bread and butter. I don't claim to be the "best" by any means, but the only guy that every made me sweat Medium vs Medium was Koreanese back in the day. Both chassis are great choices, as is the HBK.

Hunchbacks almost never get easily hunched anymore. Thank you quirks.

That said, overall, Cents and Shads are more versatile, because both can run XL engines and still absorb ridiculous amount of firepower.

A well run Shadow Hawk is the Medium Toughness ing, though. Arguably the best hitboxes in the game. Quick twisting and you can soak damage levels that make a Misery blush. Add in the overall speed and agility, and it can escape situations before they get too hairy, and yes, by feathering JJs, you can bork hitreg.

Shads are the most versatile, Medium, overall, with their speed range, toughness, fantastic weapon selection, and generally well spaced hardpoints to fit any style. You can spread weapons if you are worried about losing an arm and being weaponless, or you can torso pack and use both arms as shield, etc. For my playstyle, the 2D2 (all purpose skirmisher), 2D (Flying Hunchback) and 2K (3 ER Large laser vomit) are the way to go. Aside from the one packing an AC20, XLs are a must in Shads, as the survivability benefits with their hitboxes are minimal compared to the speed and firepower boost.

The only real "Cons" are they are not quite as agile as mechs like the Griffin or Vindicator, can't quite pack the firepower of a Storm Crow, and the field of visibility is intentionally smaller than on other Mediums, which can bug some people. So try the Trial out.

Centy's only real advantages over the Shad are if you want to run a STD engine ,you can ZOmbie, due to CT energy hardpoints, (And you can run the Champion Trial to see if that works for you), and better FoV and ground agility.


Both are solid mechs and in the right hands won't let you down. HBK is both more versatile and specialized. Each chassis fits a role very specifically, and especially post quirks, does them exceedingly well. 4G is an AC20 wrecking ball. IMO, the best mobile AC20 mech in the game. The Hunch is tough now, and it lets you peek, easily. So can the SHD, mind you, but it can't hope to match the 4G in RoF. 4P is the best Mlaser boat in the game, wicked in good hands. 4J with 2x LRM10 is ridiculous with how much LRM cover it can spit out. Gridiron packs a Gauss Machine Gun (and does most other ballistics really really well, too), the 4SP with SRM6s and MLs/MPLs is a little warm, but a ridiculous in your face brawler. And the 4H, probably my least favorite, but with it's bevey of medium lasers and ac10, might be the most versatile of the crew.

All have solid enough hitboxes, though nowhere near the SHD or CN9, exceptional agility and well placed hardpoints. And you can zombie away, a stick with a single pewpew in the head, in all models.

Down side is STD engines are pretty mandatory, so ground speed compared to other Mediums tends to be low, no JJs, and Hunched models have a limited FoV to the right.

Just my 2ct as a guy with about 10k drops in Mediums, since Closed Beta. And someone who has used them since the get go, even when "all mediums were bad".

[Veritae]

mogs01gt, on 03 March 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

That is the biggest benefit to the Shawks. They are extremely versatile which allows new players to try different builds.

This.

Remember guys, this isn't really about which mech is best for vets. It's about which will work best for a new medium pilot. I have seen many a new YLW pilot get discouraged cuz he/she keeps losing that right arm before they can really unleash the pain. Get a Shawk and torso twist using both arms as shields as you get the feel for the weight class. By the time you master them, you'll know exactly what you want in your next medium.

[Porcorosso101]

Also try not to compare a 55 to a 50 tonne mech ; Both are great for their specific tonnage class.

Look at all 50 tonnes together and the same for all 55 tonnes.

[mogs01gt]

KharnZor, on 03 March 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:

I say sir, what are you smoking? The shad far outclasses the cent in both durability and agility and is the superior mech of the two. It also rolls damage like a boss making XL engines a viable option even for a brawler.

You've just lost all credibility. CN9's are the most durable IS medium by miles.

Quote

As for the hunchback, the 4G far outclasses both in sheer firepower and in the hands of an experienced pilot will obliterate both in short order.

No, not it wouldnt. The 4G, like every Hunchie, gets wrekt due to the size of the hunch. Unlike both the Shawk and Cent, the hunchie cant shield its main weapon.

Edited by mogs01gt, 03 March 2015 - 06:50 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

mogs01gt, on 03 March 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

You've just lost all credibility. CN9's are the most durable IS medium by miles.

No, not it wouldnt. The 4G, like every Hunchie, gets wrekt due to the size of the hunch. Unlike both the Shawk and Cent, the hunchie cant shield its main weapon.

Actually, that hasn't been true in quite some time. The CN9s got their CT widened a goodly while back, which is why, while still tough, they are not near as popular (well, that asn Storm Crow).

I can assure you, the SHD, properly piloted, is tankier. Those shoulders soak damage like a boss, and it's stupendously easy to spread damage on an SHD. Especially notable when both mechs pack XLs.

As for the HBK? I shield my hunch pretty well, most of the time,. since it's my primary mech. The RT internal Structure buffs, and RoF increase have done wonders for it's toughness...as usually I can core through most things with a fire/snap twist cadence, in pretty short order. A really good player against a mostly stationary HBK can still tag the hunch with effort, bot usually at least part of the firepower line of travel hits other parts of than mech instead, and if you keep moving, and twisting, even comps can't guarantee hits on the hunch.

Also, it's substantially tough enough now, you are better off actually just shooting a HBK in the CT to kill it.

I've yet to meet the CN9 or SHD that could take me 1v1 in my HBK. Unless I was already severely damaged, and even then, it seldom works out well for the other guy.

That said, for players new to Mediums, I would once have recommended the CN9 wholeheartedly, for toughness and versatility. But the ShadowHawk takes that up a notch with it's JJs. Also, it's high torso mount weapon, is rather nice.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 03 March 2015 - 07:09 AM.

[sneeking]

Can I have a go bishop ?

I will bring cn9A.

[Finn McShae]

Out of those, I'd go Shawk. I've tried to run Cents over and over and just cant seem to run em right. I twist, shield and build pretty well in everything else. They just dont work for me.

In fact this weekend in a fit of drunken pique I sold my Cents and dusted off my hunches (unused basically since closed beta) and had a ball with them. My Founders 4G is rugged and nasty, bought a Grid Iron Gauss Gun and love it (dont have elite or mod yet, so itll get better).

Mastering the GI, 4G, 4SP will keep me busy till.Zeus time

[Bishop Steiner]

sneeking, on 03 March 2015 - 07:16 AM, said:

Can I have a go bishop ?

I will bring cn9A.

I don't duel (as many people as I regularly piss off, I'd never have time to play the game , plus all that tends to prove is who is the better pilot, not if the mech itself is better), but I see ya on the battlefield, I'll happily veer off and go a round or two with you! CN9-A is a great mech, btw. Which build you prefer? (Please don't be one of those guys that leaves the AC off...seeing those makes me sad!)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 03 March 2015 - 07:29 AM.

[Fate 6]

Hbk or Cent for AC20. Shadow hawk isn't too great these days

[Bishop Steiner]

Fate 6, on 03 March 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

Hbk or Cent for AC20. Shadow hawk isn't too great these days

Lack of massive quirks just means it had less bad in the first place, man!
They are still just as tough as ever, they just don't get a specialized "super-gun" like the other guys do.

Not that I would mind seeing a little more love to the ballistics.....

[HammerForge]

Please, keep under estimating the Shadow Hawk, all the better when I am running mine. The mech is dynamic in what it can do. Want a heavy ballistic weapon, they can do that. Want to have a couple lighter ballistics, they can do that. Want to spam lasers, they can do that. Want to be a LRM boat, they can do that. Want to brawl, they can do that. Want to snipe, they can do that.

Jump Jets, capable of carrying XL engines, and the variety of hard points the different ones have, lead to versatility that is hard to match, if you can't find a Shadow Hawk that plays to your style, you haven't tried.

That said, I love my HBK-4G and CNT-AH. One sticks with the assults and helps to be the anvil to smash your enemies against, the other is a fast moving hammer for getting in and getting out and delivering high damage and kill shots.

[lsp]

Equalizer, on 03 March 2015 - 01:42 AM, said:

Short answer - get the Centurion.

Long answer - I've always found Shadowhawks rather underwhelming in general, despite the popular opinion that they are among the best IS meds. They just move rather clumsy compared to a Centurion or a Griffin, and don't spread damage as well as those two. Also, you're stuck with STD engine for the AC20 further exacerbating these issues because of the lower speed. It has an advantage vs. the Cent in the form of jump jets, but that's about it. I'd also suggest you try the Hunchback - it is one of the best AC20 carriers currently and it also has very strong other variants such as the 4J and 4P.

All I can say is l o l.

[skorpionet]

Are you serious?!?

SHD so obvious....

[Thorqemada]

mogs01gt, on 03 March 2015 - 06:11 AM, said:

WTF are you smoking? The CN9-AH is arguably the best IS medium in the game.. The Hunchback has the same issue it always has, the RT can be hit anywhere. The Shawk is a **** mech to pilot compared to other IS mediums since its movement feels more like a Quickdraw.

The CN9 had disadvantageous hitbox changes and less advamtageous Quirks than the HBK so better stop living in the past and stop putting XL-Engines into it bcs when HSR works you will die like a fly against skilled enemies - not to mention the especially weak legs of the CN9.

Enjoy!

[Deathlike]

This discussion makes me want to revisit the Centurion-AL as I feel I've not given it a fair shake. The current state of Centurions suggest that the missile rack torso is simply a lot more vulnerable due to hitbox adjustments and the loss of the missile door. I still question how fast a mech (in this case, the Centurion) must go before the side torso doesn't get pulverized as they do (I believe Cents need to run a ~300XL engine to make the most of it). Gambling on the XL aspect when the Left Missile Torso is crit is worth it, as the bulk of many builds that use the missile torso controls most of their power.

The Shadowhawk is the most solid regardless, although there is a feeling of claustrophobia in the congested cockpit that I kinda understand exists. Jump jets are always useful, despite their Hoverjet™ state though.

[mogs01gt]

Thorqemada, on 03 March 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

The CN9 had disadvantageous hitbox changes and less advamtageous Quirks than the HBK so better stop living in the past and stop putting XL-Engines into it bcs when HSR works you will die like a fly against skilled enemies - not to mention the especially weak legs of the CN9.

Enjoy!

Livinging in the past? I use my AH everytime I play. The CENT is only mech I ever seen get down to 18%hp left and still fighting with an XL. The hitbox changes were amost 2 years ago now... keep up people.


Hey Bishop...1v1 son!

Edited by mogs01gt, 03 March 2015 - 11:16 AM.