93 replies to this topic

[Kain Demos]

Soy, on 05 March 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

...but.......... but............. what about all those..... those hardpoints.......





If Nova had Summoner speed that'd be quite classy.

You can still fill them. I currently run my prime with 12 SPL with 18 DHS and leg armor at 39/48.

Another 2.5t would change that to 20 DHS and 48/48.

[Soy]

I'm just sayin seems like a stretch to 'buff' the mech like that, I'm still of the opinion that it's just a wee bit big and that's about it.

Anyways this thread was instantly derailed but I guess that's perfectly fine and fair play seeing as it was off track from the start. xD

All I know is, maybe Summoner will have something interesting goin for it. As it stands, it's just... well.. boring. For five tons more you get... a Timber.......................... it's like if you wanted a cheeseburger and asked how much it is, and I say "TWENTY BUCKS!" and you go wtf, ok, how much is a steak and I say "TWENTY ONE BUCKS!" -.-

Edited by Soy, 05 March 2015 - 04:11 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Soy, on 05 March 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

...but.......... but............. what about all those..... those hardpoints.......





If Nova had Summoner speed that'd be quite classy.

If nova felt like it had medium mech agility (and non AWS-8Q hitboxes) it might be awesomer..... *sigh*

[Soy]

Then it'd be the fabled Novawesome.

I think I spotted one in one of Michael Bay's transformers flicks, not sure tho might've been hallucinating after experiencing 400 of Shia LeBouef's "nonononoon"

Edited by Soy, 05 March 2015 - 04:14 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Soy, on 05 March 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

I'm just sayin seems like a stretch to 'buff' the mech like that, I'm still of the opinion that it's just a wee bit big and that's about it.

Anyways this thread was instantly derailed but I guess that's perfectly fine and fair play seeing as it was off track from the start. xD

All I know is, maybe Summoner will have something interesting goin for it. As it stands, it's just... well.. boring. For five tons more you get... a Timber.......................... it's like if you wanted a cheeseburger and asked how much it is, and I say "TWENTY BUCKS!" and you go wtf, ok, how much is a steak and I say "TWENTY ONE BUCKS!" -.-

Oh I got the perfect analogy.... was at the market down here in Mexico. Went to get some meat. Ground Beef was 3.97 USD /lb. T-Bone Steaks were 4.41 /lb.

Out of the Summoner and the TWolf....which is the Ground Beef, which is the T-Bone?

(And can you guess what's for dinner?)

[Soy]

Timber:



Summoner:

Edited by Soy, 05 March 2015 - 04:18 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

now if only I had some Makers MArk to sip on while I digest..... ooooooooh.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mcgral18, on 05 March 2015 - 03:57 PM, said:

Fun fact, if you were allowed to change the engine, you could move to a 300XL (which is a TT restriction; engines need to be divisible by tonnage) you would lose exactly a half ton, and lose three crit slots. Lose a JJ, you lose no tonnage, and 2 crit slots.

Moving 107 would help a little.


As for 2.5 tons; how about this:
NVA-Gauss

Max armour. Drop the shield arm and mount a TC1 if you want. If the UAC10s get a buff, swap to that and some ERMLs.

This one runs hot, but could be deadly:
NVA-UAC10 5ERML

The irony is that the best Nova variants, all have space in TT.
The Nova S (for cheese), E, and F are all better uses of BV in a BV limited match than the Prime, A, H, or the sillier variants I won't even mention.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 05 March 2015 - 04:32 PM.

[aniviron]

Kain Thul, on 05 March 2015 - 03:57 PM, said:

By using heavier weapons. Sure, the .5t CERSL builds will not see much improvement but I could get two more DHS and max leg armor on my 12 SPL builds. You could also get more mileage out of builds involving CERLLs like duplicating the 2/3 and 2/4 L/M builds from the SCR.

In a perfect world they would allow some limited engine unlocks as well. ES + 300XL would be a nice upgrade for the Nova.

Yeah, you could duplicate the SCR builds, that'd be great. Then you'd just have an SCR that had much lower weapon mounts, ran hotter, had terrible hitboxes, and half the agility.

Bishop Steiner, on 05 March 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

If nova felt like it had medium mech agility (and non AWS-8Q hitboxes) it might be awesomer..... *sigh*

This is the part that's always the most perplexing to me, the Nova's complete lack of mobility/agility. I just have to think that someone (Paul?) went, "12e AND jumpjets!? This thing is going to need serious preemptive nerfing!" and then JJs got a huge nerf, and it turns out that having five of them was never that useful to begin with, and it turns out that making a build that actually uses all 12 hardpoints in this game is essentially impossible.

[Soy]

The only way to get it agile enough is to go prime shoulders, prime arms, full actuators, non-S CT variant.... and then..... well, that's why I'm using SPLs, quicker burntime.

[ApolloKaras]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 March 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

Yup, missed the point.

Quirks ain't gonna do it. For the Summoner, or establishing a decent baseline for Clan balance period. FREE ENDO FOR THE POOR!!!!!!
http://mwomercs.com/...-or-storm-crow/

except no quirk substitutes! (or rather....use quirks as they should be, as the final tuning tool AFTER the more logical, far reaching fixes are in place)

Then the argument should be making Ferro viable against Endo, Right now Endo has to be on every mech for it to be considered competitive. In reality its just the min/max mentality we live in. I don't have the extra 5 tons so I can't squeeze everything out of it. The current Summoner is on par with the IS offerings. You are comparing it to the other clan offerings. Your argument needs to be broader in scope imho.

[Kain Demos]

aniviron, on 05 March 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

Yeah, you could duplicate the SCR builds, that'd be great. Then you'd just have an SCR that had much lower weapon mounts, ran hotter, had terrible hitboxes, and half the agility.



This is the part that's always the most perplexing to me, the Nova's complete lack of mobility/agility. I just have to think that someone (Paul?) went, "12e AND jumpjets!? This thing is going to need serious preemptive nerfing!" and then JJs got a huge nerf, and it turns out that having five of them was never that useful to begin with, and it turns out that making a build that actually uses all 12 hardpoints in this game is essentially impossible.

I never said it would replace the 'crow--but running 2 x CERLL and 3 or 4 CERML and enough DHS to keep it reasonably cool while being able to JJ up to places the 'crow can't go and taking up 5 ton less in a drop deck would make it LESS "not as good as Stormcrow" than it is now.

[Bishop Steiner]

WM Quicksilver, on 05 March 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

The irony is that the best Nova variants, all have space in TT.
The Nova S (for cheese), E, and F are all better uses of BV in a BV limited match than the Prime, A, H, or the sillier variants I won't even mention.

My Nova-S could max armor and add 2 DHS. Seems like a net gain to me. (And still have space left over)

Saxie, on 05 March 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

Then the argument should be making Ferro viable against Endo, Right now Endo has to be on every mech for it to be considered competitive. In reality its just the min/max mentality we live in. I don't have the extra 5 tons so I can't squeeze everything out of it. The current Summoner is on par with the IS offerings. You are comparing it to the other clan offerings. Your argument needs to be broader in scope imho.

Min Max is how the game works, whether we like it or not.. Ferro is a moderate advantage for clans atm, and not a huge differentiator.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 March 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

My Nova-S could max armor and add 2 DHS. Seems like a net gain to me. (And still have space left over)

It would be amazing, it would also be amazing to see the S arms get a larger benefit since splitting your payload between the arms on such a wide mech is actually a disadvantage.

Though it would also be amazing to see them scale the Nova to be smaller since it didn't actually share legs with the SCrow. Sure they had similar legs, but it really shared with the Viper as both had 2 JJs in each leg and have identical TRO art for the legs. The Stormcrow had bulkier thighs/upper legs than the Nova.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 05 March 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Soy]

Kain Thul, on 05 March 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

I never said it would replace the 'crow--but running 2 x CERLL and 3 or 4 CERML and enough DHS to keep it reasonably cool while being able to JJ up to places the 'crow can't go and taking up 5 ton less in a drop deck would make it LESS "not as good as Stormcrow" than it is now.

To me, personally, the feel of the Nova's JJs combined with the ability to actually throw some damage, is why I think it's the best clan poptart. I tried all of them. The entire decision about what mech to pilot for me beyond 'derping' for my rust shakeoff period was definitely the Nova because it could tart. That's what I want.

That is what it does which the Crow cannot. Well, and boating lots more lasers at a less efficient and enduring manner (albeit more precise).

Anyways...

So I don't really see the two mechs as being in direct competition, or even similar, except for tonnage. Tonnage alone.

I can see the argument for Crow being better just strictly because of profile/hitbox, on paper yeah if you go min/max the two as to how it plays in MWO one on paper is surely superior. But I cream Crows all day in Nova, it's just if they spam SRMs at legs or have time to go 90 seconds on you from ~500m w/ vomit.

I think pound for pound no question the Crows prolly better but I'd rather crutch poptarting in its 'nerfed' form than crutch a borked hitbox, more noble imo and will prolly pay off at some point, the playstyle is a lot more interactive. I didn't come back to rock around boulders...

Edited by Soy, 05 March 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Soy, on 05 March 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

To me, personally, the feel of the Nova's JJs combined with the ability to actually throw some damage, is why I think it's the best clan poptart. I tried all of them. The entire decision about what mech to pilot for me beyond 'derping' for my rust shakeoff period was definitely the Nova because it could tart. That's what I want.

That is what it does which the Crow cannot. Well, and boating lots more lasers at a less efficient and enduring manner (albeit more precise).

Anyways...

So I don't really see the two mechs as being in direct competition, or even similar, except for tonnage. Tonnage alone.

I can see the argument for Crow being better just strictly because of profile/hitbox, on paper yeah if you go min/max the two as to how it plays in MWO one on paper is surely superior. But I cream Crows all day in Nova, it's just if they spam SRMs at legs or have time to go 90 seconds on you from ~500m w/ vomit.

I think pound for pound no question the Crows prolly better but I'd rather crutch poptarting in its 'nerfed' form than crutch a borked hitbox, more noble imo and will prolly pay off at some point, the playstyle is a lot more interactive. I didn't come back to rock around boulders...

Good players can put up good numbers with any 'mech. I am also a Nova fan that feels kind of guilty for how much I have ended up loving the ugly ass Stormcrow in this game. It just plays so well and feels so good and responsive while doing it.....

Honestly I am against quirks as a whole as well. I do not really think they are necessary and they seem to me to be cheap bandaids; an easy way to "balance" things when there are underlying issues. If there was no ghost heat on the Nova I wonder if it would be more popular? If FF/ES and engines were upgradeable and they brought in some more pods (even out of timeline) do you think some more/better builds would appear? How about if JJs were better?

The odds of them unlocking/removing "features" like that just for a specific chassis does not seem like something they can or will do though so in the end it is just wishful thinking.

[ApolloKaras]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 March 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

My Nova-S could max armor and add 2 DHS. Seems like a net gain to me. (And still have space left over)


Min Max is how the game works, whether we like it or not.. Ferro is a moderate advantage for clans atm, and not a huge differentiator.

Thats not to say that Ferro couldnt be made to give an advantage, instead of extra weight.

These mechs need a role to make it to where people would bring them, let's wait for the quirks then we can see.

[Soy]

Kain Thul, on 05 March 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

Honestly I am against quirks as a whole as well. I do not really think they are necessary and they seem to me to be cheap bandaids; an easy way to "balance" things when there are underlying issues. If there was no ghost heat on the Nova I wonder if it would be more popular? If FF/ES and engines were upgradeable and they brought in some more pods (even out of timeline) do you think some more/better builds would appear? How about if JJs were better?

The odds of them unlocking/removing "features" like that just for a specific chassis does not seem like something they can or will do though so in the end it is just wishful thinking.

I think most players (regardless of skill level) tend to focus their learning and development as a player in terms of offense (stuff like target prio, learning build meta to focus right component, good sight lights, and AIMING in particular), and are able to look at a mech that can soak phantom damage basically, or at least has some tangible tanking qualities on its own, and just say "good enough" and work on their offensive side of their game.

And if you just do that in a Nova... it's probably just coming across like a really fragile glass cannon that melts itself. And I see that myself, too. It's true. But I mean... I guess it's playstyle. I come from the Koreanese school of piloting, which is about maintaining as close to 100% heat as possible, all the time (at least in engagements). Cuz that means, barring inefficient aiming, you're maximizing your output. Nova can have good output with just under max laservomit, and the rest in DHS. You're pouring out 30 damage, pinpoint, every second.

I spent a lot of time learning how to soak damage and I think it makes the Nova a bit more viable for me than some other mechs. Now I'm working on bringing my aiming back to where it should be, and at that point I think I'd consider the mech fringe competitive at that point. At least just going by metrics and benchmarks of my own.

Also I think they should unlock that stupid cAP on Lynx, I will never let that go. It's a much easier fix for that mech than ******* with unlocking JJs or something.

I also don't like quirks but this is the world we live in, so, w/e. I'm not gonna whine about it, what's the point. Some of em are pretty cool, it doesn't make or break a mech for me like "not having JJs" or "not enough energy hardpoints" does for me.

Edited by Soy, 05 March 2015 - 05:11 PM.

[Hillslam]

Job #1

Fix the damn stuck-tilted-up arms!

[Soy]

Been thinking about it some, and, I think Nova could use (not saying need) an acceleration perk. It doesn't need speed, it's already agile enough if you use prime shoulders/arms. But, it's not quick enough off the line.

Cuz if you get caught cornering incorrectly or something downrange, even if you're soaking perfectly, you're still churning mud for a half a second longer than you really should in a mech like this.

Or even if you get in and pop two derps, just to turn around and dip is occasionally awkward.

So acceleration. Or maybe leg turn rate.

That's quirkable. Consider that my new Nova suggestion/argument/guess/whocares...

Edited by Soy, 05 March 2015 - 07:49 PM.