Mcgral18, on 06 March 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:
Something between 3 and 6 heat; 4.5, let's say. For double tonnage, same damage, and less range. Heck, put it back to 5 heat, where it was before the damage buff.
Right now,
from a full build standpoint it’s not double tonnage based on damage vs. heat.
They’re still heavier for sure, but it’s not double.
5x CMPL = 40 damage
6x CERMLAS = 42 damage
That’s 6 tons vs. 10 tons.
That’s 30 heat vs. 36 heat.
This is why I look at the full build as opposed to a singular weapon.
HBR - CERMLAS
HBR - CMPLs
Take a look at the cooling efficiencies, take a look at the ALPHA, take a look at the DPS.
The CERMLAS build gets
ONE percent more cooling efficiency even though it has
FOUR more DHS.
The reason for this, is because in order to hit roughly the same 40 point alpha - it requires SIX CERMLAS, not 5.
(CERMLAS = 8.67 HPS with 5.36 DISS vs. CMPL = 7.79 HPS with 4.71 DISS)
At that point, you then need to decide
"do I want a 25% shorter burn time for more concentrated damage or do I want 23% more range?"
Mcgral18, on 06 March 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:
There's never anything to discuss with you. You're always right, and Clams are always OP. Cute Fox would be way to powerful it if could have lasers that aren't 6 heat; the WubFox was far too OP; so someone touched his WubMakers.
This is where you veer off into strawmanning me.
If you can refrain from this, we could probably have an actually good conversation.
If you insist on making things up, that I have never said, and just ignoring all of the posts I've made in favor of things like Endo/FF unlocks for clan mechs, CUAC projectile speed buffs, -heat gen quirks for Clan Lights, then I'm not really sure how we can have a real conversation.
Anyway
The problem, from a macro view, is that those 6 heat lasers
compete with LLAS at range - not MLAS.
Mcgral18, on 06 March 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:
Hm...isML weights 1 ton...ERML weights 1 ton....4 heat VS 6 heay?
Hm...I'm not sure I can Math correctly here, mind showing me? isMPL, 4 heat, cMPL, 6 heat.
The CERMLAS is being compared to the LLAS in my example, you should know better.
If you want to pretend that range doesn’t exist, then I will tell you to play with CERSLAS on all your clan mechs and enjoy 2 points of damage for 1 heat.
There are some outliers in the range conversation (things that are ridiculously short, and things that are ridiculously long) but for the most part range does matter and is very important.
Alternatively, you are comparing a FIVE damage weapon to a SEVEN damage weapon that also has FIFTY PERCENT more range.
So of course it's going to be higher heat.
That's where looking at the whole build comes into play, but most people build clan mechs aren't satisfied with IS level firepower.
So a 4 CERMLAS 28 point alpha feels "weak", even though SIX MLAS are required to hit a similar alpha level, or THREE LLAS.
Mcgral18, on 06 March 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:
There should be a choice involved if you don't want to partake in the very boring long range ERLL fests, and longer than the 200M ERSLs. MPLs were supposed to fill that gap, but were inflated in both heat and damage, while being cut in range.
You often make a big deal about IS laser burn times, and yet here you seem to discount it.
Yes, the CERMLAS are completely amazing, possibly the best laser in the entire game on an overall.
So yes, they are always going to be a more efficient choice.
However I do think CMPLs can make for good, fun builds with more concentrated damage at near IS LPL ranges. That’s why I use them on some builds anyway.
You have a really weird stance here, where you almost seem to be saying that between ERLLAS and sub 200m the clan faction does not have a good laser option.
To be honest, I don’t think I could say that with a straight face.
The CERMLAS is amazing, if you think it’s too hot you probably have too many of them slotted.
Mcgral18, on 06 March 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:
As for the Thud, are you forgetting it's also as durable as a 90 ton Assault mech? With a greater alpha, for significantly less heat, at identical ranges?
That's on top of shorter burn durations. Less than 10 KPh slower, while being far more durable.
You're ignoring key features of the Thud in there. It is beastly.
I’ve made that comparison directly to you, several times. I’ve never pretended the Thud wasn’t a good mech.
The 5SS is excellent.
The point of that comparison is that the two mechs have advantages vs. one another, and the HBR can actually compete vs. the 5SS at its own specialty (medium pulse).
The Thud has higher DPS, shorter burn.
The HBR has higher cooling, higher heat cap, more speed, ECM, more mounts that are higher.
I think they are relatively even. (The lower heat is a bit of a misnomer, once you look at the overall picture of heat cap & cooling efficiency – it’s all in the chart)
It took very good quirks, for the Thud to be even in this comparison, this is why I am against buffs to clan MPLs or clan CERMLAS – weapons I tend to use a lot and - the CERMLAS in particular - is easily one of the most problematic weapons from a balancing standpoint.
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