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Solo Players In Cw - A Pain

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#21 Nainko

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:24 AM

Well, this is a game in which a team fights another team. I was leading one of the teams,TheLastUn1corn is complaining about.

I would like to see the queue of the enemies, too. So I know where I can fight a team instea of 12 single players. But I cant.

@TheLastun1corn: I can't imagin your frustration, because thats why I joined a team. But I think it is not my fault, nor the fault of the team I led into CW against you and your 11 PUGs. So please stop blaming us ingame for that. How shall we have any influence in the queue on your side...we cannot even see it.


PS: A screenshot from one of my comrads last night. Obviusly it is possible with VOIP to coordinate PUGs.

Posted Image

Edited by Nainko, 06 March 2015 - 06:26 AM.


#22 Bigbacon

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:28 AM

So many have been complaining about this from day one. All you are going to hear is "L2P" "Group Up" etc, etc...

Until they figure out something just stay away from CW and let the comp groups sit around and have no one to fight.

#23 AdamBaines

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:37 AM

It is "Ultra Hard Mode" if you drop PUG in CW as IS vs. Clans. I can think of two times when my team has won in CW vs. the clans and it has always been defense. It really is all about coordination and awareness. You really dont get a ton of that in a PUG consistently. Every now and then Ill see 1 or two really good rep players in our drop, but we still get shredded because most of the team really does not have a clue.

It can get frustrating for sure, but I cant really get mad. What should I expect going up against a coordinated Clan teams like JFP, CGBI, etc and most of my teammates are using subpar mechs and load-outs? They are on coms, and they are coordinated.

I know that if I wan to win more, I need to get on the TS servers and I will have better results.

With all of the beat downs I'm taking though in CW, I'd like to think I'm getting better :-) LOL

#24 Nainko

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:38 AM

@Bigbacon: I never said, learn to play!

But yes, I say, group up. You cant play football "solo", it's a teamgame. If you don't want to make this experience stop blaming the people who do so. Don't complain about your situation, changi it! There are tons of fun teams out there, without any constrains. And there are many units and clans out there who are open to player that just play from time to time with them.

My personal oppinion? I don't like PUG-Teams. Why? Because I play for IS. And 12 IS PUGs loose in 99% of all cases against Clan PUGs with their more powerfull Mechs.

So please understand that I will not brush a tear away for single players in a team based competition. You better play single player games.

Edited by Nainko, 06 March 2015 - 06:40 AM.


#25 wanderer

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:07 AM

View PostKilo 40, on 06 March 2015 - 06:09 AM, said:

don't worry. Russ is going to allow us unworthy pugs the chance at some 4v4 matches, while the uber elite get full on 48v48 matches. exciting huh?!?!

thanks for the bone russ. i hope the 12 man groups enjoy their prime rib.


>implying 4v4 was some kind of consolation prize for being PUGs.

It's going in because people wanted smaller portions of CW that would be ready faster- that is, it's 8oz of prime rib vs 24oz, for a chunk of your time wallet you can afford easier rather than spending 20min in queue waiting for 12 randoms to show up at a slow point in the day.

You want to be in 12v12, queue right up.

#26 HARDKOR

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:13 AM

View Postwanderer, on 06 March 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:


You want to be in 12v12, queue right up.


But please, please, wait for there to be a group of people with a clue in there before you pile on. I'm getting really sick of playing 12 randoms who's MVP is the dropship.

#27 Mavqie

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:38 AM

View PostHARDKOR, on 06 March 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:


But please, please, wait for there to be a group of people with a clue in there before you pile on. I'm getting really sick of playing 12 randoms who's MVP is the dropship.



got to learn to play somehow

#28 Mott

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:41 AM

I'm in a unit, a fairly decent one in terms of both skill and enjoyable to hang out with... and i still hate CW and dread the thought of getting involved in it again.

It just has so many glaring issues that make it - at best - a drag for even good units that win a lot. Considering all the other elements of MWO that pizz off the player base and have been harped on over and over and over for years (ghost heat, convergence, 3PV, maps-maps-maps, etc) and have NEVER been addressed or improved... I just can't bring myself to hope for any significant improvements to CW in the next 2 years, if ever.

CW has almost single-handedly killed MWO for me - and again, I AM part of a unit. I can't imagine how terrible it is for soloists.

#29 sycocys

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:42 AM

While ignorant pugs that have no concept of strategy are certainly a problem, more of it lies in the fact the game mode currently consists of blob in a firing line vs blob walking into a firing line. If there was more depth to the mode where pugs could be paired up with members of the larger team or the pug lance sent on their own mission it would be far more balanced than trying to get people that don't play together often to fire on the same ecm cloaked target.

I'm all for the smaller matches, but the larger scale is where the meat of the game should be designed around and has needed and overhaul/expansion since closed beta.

#30 Bigbacon

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 08:15 AM

View PostHARDKOR, on 06 March 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:


But please, please, wait for there to be a group of people with a clue in there before you pile on. I'm getting really sick of playing 12 randoms who's MVP is the dropship.


You know it is bad when the folks they, stupidly, said CW was for are not having fun...

they really needed to spend more time on it before launching it. they knew damn well there wasn't enough organized groups to make it work yet the continue to do nothing to try and make it a better experience for ALL players (or at least most players)

#31 Necromantion

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 08:32 AM

View PostMavqie, on 06 March 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:



got to learn to play somehow


Not in CW though lol

To be frank I believe a gating process is needed.

I feel that tutorials that are a bit more in depth than the current ones need to be forced on new players and completed before they can do normal games then after that they have to meet x critera before they can join CW matches but in order to do so some CW tutorials should be forced on them too so they arent stumbling in blindly.

Just my two cents.

#32 xxREVxx

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 08:36 AM

Levels of participation in CW are well below at least what I expected. Due to? I could go down the list but I just do not feel like aggravating myself as PGI seems to have ears and eyes that just do not function nominally.

Possible Band Aid for CW woes: stock loadouts only.

#33 Necromantion

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:12 AM

I know I dont like how this is a justifiable reason but it is still Beta.

The initial and current implementation does seem extremely shortsighted in terms of gameplay/balance in respect to maps/game modes but I do not feel the discrepancy that people seem to between playing IS and Clan mechs as my win rate/damage does not change regardless of what faction were playing with the unit im in.

#34 TheLastUn1corn

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:23 AM

View PostNainko, on 06 March 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

I was leading one of the teams,TheLastUn1corn is complaining about.
[...]
But I think it is not my fault, nor the fault of the team I led into CW against you and your 11 PUGs. So please stop blaming us ingame for that.

You are right, and I'm not blaming you or any other group player for simply playing organized (just got desperate on that match, I guess). I'd rather say that it's PGI's fault for not balancing CW out enough.

That said, I believe it wouldn't even be all that difficult to create a matchmaking system that would put groups of 12 against equal groups so that PUGs + small lances would fight on more even terms.

Edited by TheLastUn1corn, 06 March 2015 - 09:25 AM.


#35 Johnny Z

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:24 AM

View PostNecromantion, on 06 March 2015 - 09:12 AM, said:

I know I dont like how this is a justifiable reason but it is still Beta.

The initial and current implementation does seem extremely shortsighted in terms of gameplay/balance in respect to maps/game modes but I do not feel the discrepancy that people seem to between playing IS and Clan mechs as my win rate/damage does not change regardless of what faction were playing with the unit im in.


So your saying Clans and Is are balanced then?

I tried out that dual CERPPC clan light the Adder for a couple matches. It is OP and yet I see many topics and replies saying it needs quirks from Clan players.

So many Clan players saying the techs are balanced and that over powered mechs needs improvments really makes me wonder about how good they really are at piloting and how they actually manage to have such high win ratio's.

#36 HARDKOR

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:30 AM

View PostMavqie, on 06 March 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:



got to learn to play somehow

Yes, and I highly recommend learning by playing with a group that has a clue as opposed to joining a derp herd that is going to get pushed back to their DZ after the first few deaths.

View PostJohnny Z, on 06 March 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

So your saying Clans and Is are balanced then?

I tried out that dual CERPPC clan light the Adder for a couple matches. It is OP and yet I see many topics and replies saying it needs quirks from Clan players.

So many Clan players saying the techs are balanced and that over powered mechs needs improvments really makes me wonder about how good they really are at piloting and how they actually manage to have such high win ratio's.


Um, the panther is better than the puma.

You are an elite whiner though, so you get a pass.

View PostBigbacon, on 06 March 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:


You know it is bad when the folks they, stupidly, said CW was for are not having fun...

they really needed to spend more time on it before launching it. they knew damn well there wasn't enough organized groups to make it work yet the continue to do nothing to try and make it a better experience for ALL players (or at least most players)


They need to set a limit where there needs to be at least a 4 man before a team can be formed.

#37 Necromantion

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:40 AM

View PostJohnny Z, on 06 March 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

So your saying Clans and Is are balanced then?

I tried out that dual CERPPC clan light the Adder for a couple matches. It is OP and yet I see many topics and replies saying it needs quirks from Clan players.

So many Clan players saying the techs are balanced and that over powered mechs needs improvments really makes me wonder about how good they really are at piloting and how they actually manage to have such high win ratio's.


Yeah I am saying that. Each faction has its on +'s and -'s right now and that creates diversity. I have no issues nor do other competent players pulling the same numbers from IS to Clan mechs and winning the same number of games.

I would gladly duel your adder with any IS firestarter/Jenner/Spider/Raven that I have.

I would take most IS lights over Clan lights. Toe to toe IS lights are better with maybe an exception for a streak adder/kitfox but nobody runs those in CW because the crow/maddog/timberwolf or even summoner streak boat better as they are just as mobile and have more armor.

You saying that pumas are overpowered shows how dense you really are and from our matches against you in CW i cannot say that I would consider your input to be anything other than biased and that of a mediocre at best player who has only really played a significant amount of time as IS.

Edited by Necromantion, 06 March 2015 - 09:51 AM.


#38 Wingbreaker

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:50 AM

Did...did someone say the adder was better than something?

#39 Basilisk222

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:52 AM

View PostTheLastUn1corn, on 05 March 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

So, right now I feel like the Invasion game mode is geared towards a very small percentage of MWO players: the ones who have a group of 12 (or something like 10 at least) people to play with, so they can drop as a homogenous group with superior communication and organization. Now, what seems to happen really rarely at the moment, is that such groups are paired up against equal groups on the other side. Most of the time I see the Matchmaker putting a (nearly) full group against a PUG, that contains either only small groups or, more often, no groups at all.

Most of the time, the outcome of this is rather enraging: the full group just stomps the PUG, sometimes without even losing some 5 mechs. I had 4 invasion matches today, and all 4 went on like this.

So what are the results of this? Community Warfare, being held up as the shining example of where MWO is going to be in several years, is actually rapdily losing player support: a lot of single players and mini-groups are disappointed of how terribly unbalanced most matches are and therefore decide to play CW less often. Today, a player even told me in the chat: "It's not fun. In fact I never had fun in this mode".

To me, this is really sad, as I remember the time when CW did just come out: no big groups would fill the lobbies; instead, it was almost always PUG against PUG with only minor groups inside. Back then, this mode was fun for everybody, down to even the most casual player, now it's only fun for a selected few. Bearing this in mind, "Elite Warfare" seems more of a correct term to describe this mode as it is now...

So, what could be done about this? I suggest adjusting the Matchmaker in a way that would make big groups stand up against other big groups instead of taking a full group on one side and trying to puzzle up a PUG on the other. To achieve this, I would vote for a more general lobby system: to most players it is not important, what exact planet they are attacking or defending right now as the whole galaxy system isn't really working as promised so far. So why don't we make it so that players of one faction would join a single lobby, from where they would then be redirected to any planet where an equally qualified enemy group is formed. This would result in Groups fighting Groups and PUGs fighting PUGs on separate planets. As a result, group players, who are enjoying (or maybe not so much) a big grindfest just now, would get more of a challenge while solo players and small groups would be able to reasonably participate and have fun in CW.

What do you guys think about this? Are you group or solo players, and what are your experiences on this topic?


As a soloer, or grouper when the opportunity presents itself, I think the mode needs a lot of work and variety before it really begins to work correctly. Knowing this I really only play MWO and CW when I'm in the mood. I have so much game-age to play, and if I'm not feeling mechwarrior, I don't play it. As a result, I usually enjoy CW when I play, even if I lose, because I enjoy the experience. Sometimes I don't want to play CW and run the normal queue for a while. Generally, I'm feeling MWO once or twice a week. It does a lot for me to prevent the burnout the game has a tendency to induce, and it's flaws while remaining evident don't grate on you as badly. I think CW really should be a mode where you be there if you want and already bring your playstyle to the table, then do your best to work that playstyle into what your team needs.

Solo-ing is difficult, but if you are solo-ing I think your expectations should be "mercenary" and you should accept that someone will be issuing you orders, if you do not want to play that way, you must be in a group. As a Solo player, you are a body in a mech, and due to that, you must make an effort to be more than that, communicate more, not less, and try to integrate into the team.

I think that's fair expectation, I also think that you shouldn't have trial access in CW for all 4 mechs, you MUST have at least 2. This is the "endgame" content and you should be familiar with controls and mechbuilds, I think we should have more experienced pilots in CW with this type of structure. It's NOT to keep out players, as they could just buy in, but it's giving them an opportunity to play the game and have access to certain content once they've had time to familiarize themselves with more of the intricate things the game offers. I'm for improving the experience for gamers, and throwing into this cauldron of CW which is sort of Laddered by default is like asking players who just started an RPG to fight the final boss at lv 1. It's not fair to them. They should be someone locked out, it should feel like their fault when they go into something too soon. Give them the options sure, but we should be attempting to corral most things, if a few jump the fence, they may succeed, but they also jumped over the fence, it's not like they can't just bounce back over.

#40 sycocys

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 10:07 AM

Not sure having a minimum of a lance for a limit would change a whole lot - some sure, but in the overall scheme not too much until they advance the game mechanics beyond simple assault though. Now if there were a logistical reason for lances of 4, that would be a total game changer and you'd see a game that felt like it had a lot more balance and a dev team capable of managing actual weapon/mech balance.

Seeing whose firing line is the most efficient at focusing down the other firing line coming around the corner will never lead to a system where any balance is really obtainable because even a group of piss poor rigged defenders that focused well together would shred through a decently equipped blob coming around the bend. It really doesn't matter if on paper things technically balance out, or on the W/L sheet most people are going to find that the matches are horribly lopsided one way or the other. Its maybe not so much that the mechs for either side are imbalanced but rather that the experience feels out of balance, there's just not a lot(enough nor the majority) of good mostly even matches that happen.

The one thing that seems to play out better on standard drops, pre-mades or not is that a far larger portion of the matches don't end up being rolls for one side or the other. Being that it is essentially the same mode being played I would have to suggest that the map design is a major factor at play in terms of setting up what feels like a powerful imbalance to many players.





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