171 replies to this topic

[Flaming oblivion]

Nope its learn to queue .

[Kjudoon]

Nainko, on 06 March 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

@Bigbacon: I never said, learn to play!

But yes, I say, group up. You cant play football "solo", it's a teamgame. If you don't want to make this experience stop blaming the people who do so. Don't complain about your situation, changi it! There are tons of fun teams out there, without any constrains. And there are many units and clans out there who are open to player that just play from time to time with them.

My personal oppinion? I don't like PUG-Teams. Why? Because I play for IS. And 12 IS PUGs loose in 99% of all cases against Clan PUGs with their more powerfull Mechs.

So please understand that I will not brush a tear away for single players in a team based competition. You better play single player games.

Yes, this is a team game, but look at it this way.

A community pick up game of 11 guys doesn't suddenly show up at the field to play against the Seattle Seahawks with full gear and blood in their eye.

That's CW for pugs. Neighborhood pickup versus pro or at least well practiced organized community league team.

Until a unit or individual ranking system is used to forcibly segregate players/units (something that will NEVER happen because the player base needs 2 more zeros behind the number to handle the freight) this will be the norm, and probably prevent the cure from ever happening.

As someone who plays mostly pug, but sometimes fills in with organized 12s, (yes if you see me on the field it's almost always a pug no matter the unit tags) this is a sad sad unavoidable reality. Players who shouldn't be meeting cannot be kept separate or games don't happen.

Edited by Kjudoon, 07 March 2015 - 03:45 PM.

[jaxjace]

Kjudoon, on 07 March 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

Yes, this is a team game, but look at it this way.

A community pick up game of 11 guys doesn't suddenly show up at the field to play against the Seattle Seahawks with full gear and blood in their eye.

That's CW for pugs. Neighborhood pickup versus pro or at least well practiced organized community league team.

Until a unit or individual ranking system is used to forcibly segregate players/units (something that will NEVER happen because the player base needs 2 more zeros behind the number to handle the freight) this will be the norm, and probably prevent the cure from ever happening.

As someone who plays mostly pug, but sometimes fills in with organized 12s, (yes if you see me on the field it's almost always a pug no matter the unit tags) this is a sad sad unavoidable reality. Players who shouldn't be meeting cannot be kept separate or games don't happen.

And so the only solution in my eyes is to throw yourself at them

http://southpark.cc..../a-lone-redskin

I dont see any better way than to fight those 12 mans, and get better at fighting them from it.

[ice trey]

TheLastUn1corn, on 05 March 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

Now, what seems to happen really rarely at the moment, is that such groups are paired up against equal groups on the other side. Most of the time I see the Matchmaker putting a (nearly) full group against a PUG, that contains either only small groups or, more often, no groups at all.

There is no "Matchmaker" in CW, only a cue.

I have a feeling that you're talking about the IS/Clan border.

Both sides of the clan border are accessible to anyone. Any IS player can defend the IS side. Any Clan player can defend the clan side. It is not a requirement to be a part of the same faction. As such, a lot of pugs gravitate to those worlds, in order to get a "Fast match". On the other hand, attacking the other side of the border requires that all the players be a part of the same faction, which likely means they've organized on teamspeak prior to attacking.

You'll see a very different situation if you play some Clan Vs Clan matches, or IS versus IS matches. In those cases, all the players must belong to the same faction, which likely means that they've bunched together using teamspeak.

So clan players dropping against the IS get easy pugstomps. IS players attacking clans get a slightly more difficult pugstomp. If I'm not mistaken, the Clans have a single, unified teamspeak, and spend less time with infighting, meaning a more likely chance that a 12-man will drop in defense or random pugs will unify in a single teamspeak group, but it's not a huge chance. Those players that complain that clans are OP are usually the ones who constantly drop in defense of a border world because "They'll get a match faster". Clans are slightly OP, but not game-breakingly so. Even a 12-man in IS trials could take a clan pug-squad to the cleaners.

[Zordicron]

sdsnowbum, on 05 March 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

Honestly I think the early days were better matchups because there were more solos. Although the wait times were atrocious for solos and the queue #s were hidden anyway.

These days if I go to what looks like an active planet, then get crushed by a big group, I'll stop going to that planet. However often there no other planets that look promising and that ends my CW foray for the night.

This is what happens to pretty much every solo player right now, myself included. If PGI wants to increase player counts in CW, it needs to come up with a way to allow the solo and even 2-3 player groups a way to play against like sized teams. Not all solo's are "bads" my stats are all well into green running unmoduled, unmastered mechs (I have pokemech syndrome, 150+mechs) but my skills are irrelevant when teamed with 11 others of questionable talents against a unit that has played many times together before and can cover each other's weaknesses. As a result, I simply continue in the solo section, where wait times for a match are MUCH lower, and if i get a team of special needs people, at least it is over quickly so I can move on and there is nothing at stake.

Player count is absolutely crucial in making good matches, and reducing wait times. The current situation is actively reducing player counts by chasing them away with bad matches, which in turn feeds on itself to compound the issue further. PGI should know when they are on the right track simply by looking at ghost drops. I mean, damn, player count is so messed up they have matches with no enemy team?

it has been a while since I have endured the wait times and messed around with CW drops. Perhaps after this dbl XP weekend i will do some of that this week, just to get a refresher for the state of things, I have not tried the new 250 ton drop tonnage thing out yet.

[TheLastUn1corn]

jaxjace, on 07 March 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

Let me stop you right there noob ...

First things first: phrases like this have no place in a constructive discussion, especially as you are obviously just throwing it without checking before talking.

jaxjace, on 07 March 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

... because thats when i stopped reading ...

Well obviously that's the problem, because else you wouldn't finish your post with

jaxjace, on 07 March 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

Or L2P

as you would have seen, that individual skill does not in any way relate to the topic of this discussion. Also, even with "learning to play" you can't make up for the advantage of well-organized groups playing against PUG.

ice trey, on 07 March 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

I have a feeling that you're talking about the IS/Clan border.

Both sides of the clan border are accessible to anyone. Any IS player can defend the IS side. Any Clan player can defend the clan side. It is not a requirement to be a part of the same faction. As such, a lot of pugs gravitate to those worlds, in order to get a "Fast match". On the other hand, attacking the other side of the border requires that all the players be a part of the same faction, which likely means they've organized on teamspeak prior to attacking. ...

Good point, I never thought about this before. That might actually be a huge part of the problem. PGI does even further contribute to this by displaying "planet X needs defenders" in the lower right hand corner of the home screen, wich will almost always redirect clan players to defending a planet against IS attackers. Players, who maybe would have tried to fight another clan are thereby distracted and pushed towards a border drop instead.

ice trey, on 07 March 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

If I'm not mistaken, the Clans have a single, unified teamspeak, and spend less time with infighting, ...

And this is the second part of the problem, at least for solo clan players (like myself at the moment): There is virtually only a very little chance to have a fight clan-vs-clan, because it takes ages for full attack and defense queues to form up inside clan territory. I guess, the situation is similar inside the IS, although houses without a clan border might have a higher chance to get up a match against a neighbouring house, e.g. Marik vs. Liao.

[Vervuel]

I have no problem dropping solo, but then I bring the fully mastered-and-quirked IS mechs I can. If all PUGs did this, then they would have a better time in CW. But bringing a Commando with srms and a Griffin with ERPPC's as part of your drop deck, that is a recipe for a loss. I don't think many solo players understand how CW works, and what IS needs to do to win against Clans. Yes, pilot skill helps lol, and organization/TS is basically how to win. But when I have no **** had solo-drop CW team mates telling me that they brought the mechs they brought in order to level them up, I mean, you are GUARANTEED a bad time. So segregating solo players from group drops a la solo queue matches, well that won't help. Could always try holding a gun to solo players' heads and making them go to http://metamechs.com/ or reading any of the innumerable posts on MWO Forums about how to play CW. Heck, I'm not even going to get into what tactics to use once in match, nor how to make all the lil' puggies folow them.

[mekabuser]

the whole thing is shambles. I suspect the majority of large groups attack.. THe majority of solo groups defend.

its F cuking INFURIATING when 12 mans gloat tho.. that shite is just lame and childish.. THat in comb o with the bullshit base defenses makes for some serious wtf am i even doing playing this crap..
cwi did just this last night.. with a full 12 man, start chatting up bull shite"I hope they dont have all streak builds etc" Oops right at the outset after a sarcastic IS salute.
The very definition of childish behavior thats Rewarded by the god awful way CW has been implemented. My second spawn was literally on top of two daishis. dead in two seconds.. and what is the point now.. ? nothing.. cya..

I know there are decent folk who group up and play, but ill tell you what ,, I suspect the majority are not decent.. I suspect the majority of groups are no better than what you see in public bathrooms at a concert.. A disgusting display of selfish crap without a care for anyone or anything..

Groups.. in all their glory completely made this game suck for the first year or two because they evidently got their ******* slaughtering pugs.
Since groups have been absent for at least a year from the common que its been way way better. Its actually been fantastic for quite a while.
Its just all the other lovely features of mwo that get ur goat..

Back to OP sentiment.. yeah, two evenly matched groups in CW. IS FUN.. its great..
the way its set up now,, thats about 1 in 10 matches.. if ur lucky as a pug.

[Yokaiko]

mekabuser, on 08 March 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

Back to OP sentiment.. yeah, two evenly matched groups in CW. IS FUN.. its great..
the way its set up now,, thats about 1 in 10 matches.. if ur lucky as a pug.

Or just y'know group up.

[Zypher]

Yokaiko, on 08 March 2015 - 03:57 PM, said:

Or just y'know group up.

Yeah, most games should have this solution, group up on comms if you want to enjoy the game...don't go into game development please, that's a terrible workaround, not a solution.

CW may already be dead before it's out of beta unless PGI can lure more players to the game in general and bring them into CW. As it stands, even if 1 million players joined tomorrow, CW will be back down to current populations after a few months unless something changes. It will not stand in it's current format.

I just played 3 matches all in the 5-10 minute mark, all three against Kurita 12 mans. One of the more miserable gaming experiences I had in my life. Yeah, I will go back to the solo queue, it's actually a far better experience, yeah I said that.

[Yokaiko]

Zypher, on 08 March 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

Yeah, most games should have this solution, group up on comms if you want to enjoy the game...don't go into game development please, that's a terrible workaround, not a solution.

Yeah, dropping when you can SEE clean multiples of 12 and being surprised it's not pugs.

Seriously?

[HARDKOR]

mekabuser, on 08 March 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

Back to OP sentiment.. yeah, two evenly matched groups in CW. IS FUN.. its great..
the way its set up now,, thats about 1 in 10 matches.. if ur lucky as a pug.

As a person that drops primarily as a 12 man, about one in 20 matches are good, the rest are boring. I'm pretty sure it's because the premades are attacking and not defending. I eagerly await whatever is coming down the pipe to fix this.

[Kjudoon]

Yokaiko, on 08 March 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

Yeah, dropping when you can SEE clean multiples of 12 and being surprised it's not pugs.

Seriously?

Not every 12man is a team just because they have the same tags.

Most are in unit pick-up groups.

[Yokaiko]

Kjudoon, on 08 March 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

Not every 12man is a team just because they have the same tags.

Most are in unit pick-up groups.

Not in Kurita, seriously, they don't pug. As a faction they wait for 12 to drop. Trust me I was Kurita last week, good guys.

Edited by Yokaiko, 08 March 2015 - 07:13 PM.

[Wildstreak]

I wish there was a PGI cure for this but if there is, it is some time off. Several suggestions have been made all around.
- Have solos queue on different planets.
- Apply an ELO or other kind of filter to keep out new people to MWO.
- New modes like Raids.

Until some kind of official fix is in, it would take the community to fix it. This would not be a 100% fix because of the, "do what I want," types plus new players who try out CW without even reading these forums but something is better than nothing. Community players are able to run Private events like Stock matches and others so it is possible, just need the people and effort to do it.

Simple example, community decides Week 1 & 3 of each month, Teams will focus on Clan vs IS then some soloers may avoid that leading to less Team vs PUG and Week 2 & 4 would flip with teams avoiding Clan vs IS.

[mekabuser]

HARDKOR, on 08 March 2015 - 07:08 PM, said:

As a person that drops primarily as a 12 man, about one in 20 matches are good, the rest are boring. I'm pretty sure it's because the premades are attacking and not defending. I eagerly await whatever is coming down the pipe to fix this.

you know.. I suspected as much...
Id also like to just clarify something.. As i said earlier, the solo pug ex has been for me excellent the last 16 ,or so months.. Pilot wise. Lots of honorable GOOD engagements.. IDK if this is highlighted by skirmish mode or what, but its been my experience..
Its when as a pug Im confronted with a organized group that is just in it for the lulz.. I know its by and large human behavior.. fckd, I realize that Its a rarity to have the "ill go help the other team, we/.re killen em" mentality i used to exhibit in mw4, but I think MOST of the anger, drama etc exhibited on these forums is not so much the playerbase's fault as
the devs throwing us one loaf of bread for 100 people and watching everyone scramble.

The good will on these forums was full throttle in the beginning
There is a legitimate reason why many.. oh so many are just so jaded about the whole thing.
the countless who are just gone, but the large number who still have the tiniest bit of hope.. an ember, thats even MORE telling.
thats why , that whole positive spin spewing incessantly from just a few.... is so repugnant to many.
Im sure there have been plenty in the Chinese govt who have been maintaining that the air quality of Beijing is just fine..
you know. because Stupid humans.

[Yokaiko]

Wildstreak, on 08 March 2015 - 07:22 PM, said:

- Have solos queue on different planets.
- Apply an ELO or other kind of filter to keep out new people to MWO.
- New modes like Raids.

You think ELO changes anything? How cute.

[sycocys]

This weekend a small group of my team wanted to drop CW on sat/sun early so I begrudgingly agreed. I usually refuse to go unless our group is 7+ because pugs are generally worthless and 3-4 people can't carry against 12 clanners that actually try -pug or not, they usually at least put forth a meaningful effort. But hey, it was early why not oblige your pals with some rounds that could be fun right?

2/3 of those matches the pugs were so horrific that I straight out left the mode for most of the rest of the day. The other was a 5 minute roll against a good 12 man, equally hilarious but more or less expected with a small group. I don't rage quit matches often, but those two matches contained by far the worst groups of pugs I've ever encountered in the entire span of the game from beta until today.

Honestly after this weekend I'm considering buying all the clan mechs with cash and switching sides because at least their pugs seem to understand the basic concepts of the game tactics.

[Jon Gotham]

mekabuser, on 08 March 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

Groups.. in all their glory completely made this game suck for the first year or two because they evidently got their ******* slaughtering pugs.
Since groups have been absent for at least a year from the common que its been way way better. Its actually been fantastic for quite a while.
Its just all the other lovely features of mwo that get ur goat..

Back to OP sentiment.. yeah, two evenly matched groups in CW. IS FUN.. its great..
the way its set up now,, thats about 1 in 10 matches.. if ur lucky as a pug.

I apologise for making friends. I also apologise for getting on team speak so I can chat to those friends. I also apologise for wanting to play shoot robots with my friends, whilst chatting.
Don't blame me and construct cack because you don't want to to that please. It's already offensive and it's not fair to vilify all of us for actions only a select ultra tiny section of the playerbase does.

Also HOW can you think the solo queue is fantastic? The gameplay is utterly shocking! It's like watching a box full of lsd pumped frogs hop about....
My good will vanished when prosolo started raging and screaming at anyone who groups up, causing us to be ostracized into a separate queue and told to basically "go away." Why should I think good of people who refuse to join in with others and who actively campaign to affect my experience in the game against my will?

I met a guy in game two days ago who is quite famous on the forums as being intensely pro solo and pro casual here follows is a transcript of the conversation I had with him (solo queue no sync drops-equal # of unit tagged guys each side):

Prosolorager: clubbing baby seals, these idiots should be proud
Me:what?
Prosolorager:you stupid?
Me:I don't get what you are on about?
Prosolorager:there is a point where is taking advantage yes
Prosolorager:but your too stupid to understand that
Me:so, when exactly are unit players allowed to play mwo?
Prosolorager:try group and cw dummy
Prosolorager:coming into solo is no proff your good
Prosolorager:just that you like to club baby seals
Me: so, what if no one in their unit is on?
Prosolorager: <silence>

Now, should I have goodwill towards this chap? His is one of the voices that has affected my enjoyment of the game.

Edited by kamiko kross, 09 March 2015 - 04:13 AM.

[sycocys]

I honestly prefer solo/standard mode to CW simply because the maps are a thousand times better and for the most part 8/10 games are mostly competitive. If I had to choose between pug/solo the standard drops or a smaller group of CW there's really no way at this point that CW even continues to be an option.

Even with comms, pugs tend to be incapable of performing the basic push or focus fire defense tactics. At least in standard drops you can have fun matches with an incompetent team just because most of the maps are designed for more erratic flow.