75 replies to this topic

[Greenjulius]

As promised, PGI released the Grasshopper and Zeus quirks today. Lots of structure / armor buffs, and energy buffs for the grasshopper.

Discuss!

Quirks!

Zeus ZEU-6S{R} and ZEU-6S

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Additional Armor (CT) +15
  
• Additional Armor (LT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +17
  
• Ballistic Range +10%
  
• Ballistic Cooldown +12.5%
  
• Missile Range +12.5%
  
• AC/5 Range +10%

Zeus ZEU-6T

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Additional Armor (CT) +15
  
• Additional Armor (LT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +17
  
• Energy Range +10%
  
• Missile Range +12.5%
  
• Missile Cooldown +12.5%
  
• PPC Range +10%

Zeus ZEU-9S

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Additional Armor (CT) +15
  
• Additional Armor (LT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +17
  
• Energy Range +10%
  
• Energy Cooldown +12.5%
  
• Missile Range +12.5%
  
• ER Large Laser Range +10%

Grasshopper GHR-5J{R} and GHR-5J

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Acceleration Rate (Low, Med, High Speed) +10%
  
• Additional Armor (LA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (RA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +15
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +15
  
• Additional Structure (CT) +11
  
• Energy Cooldown +10%
  
• Energy Heat Generation -12.5%
  
• ER Large Laser Cooldown +10%
  
• AMS Range +10%

Grasshopper GHR-5H

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Acceleration Rate (Low, Med, High Speed) +10%
  
• Additional Armor (LA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (RA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +15
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +15
  
• Additional Structure (CT) +11
  
• Energy Cooldown +10%
  
• Energy Heat Generation -12.5%
  
• Missile Cooldown +12.5%
  
• Medium Laser Cooldown +10%

Grasshopper GHR-5N

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Acceleration Rate (Low, Med, High Speed) +10%
  
• Additional Armor (LA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (RA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +15
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +15
  
• Additional Structure (LT) +9
  
• Additional Structure (RT) +9
  
• Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5%
  
• Energy Cooldown +12.5%
  
• Energy Heat Generation -10%
  
• PPC Heat Generation -10%

[Ultimax]

The Zeus is likely going to need quite a bit more than that.

The Grasshopper quirks are...very moderate, not bad but nothing completely amazing there either.


Guess we will see how it performs in game.

[Novawrecker]

On paper, it seems like the Grasshopper is going to be on heck of an energy boating brawler. 11 more days till we see how it works in application.

[FupDup]

Grasshopper 5H: Only has a single missile hardpoint, installed in the head, so the missile quirk will be absolutely-positively useless. It's just a placeholder because they're being reluctant with new quirks after controversies like the Thunderbolt 9S.

Grasshopper 5J: Lol AMS range

Zeus 6S: Ballistic range is kinda pointless most of the time, velocity would've been better. Only 1 missile hardpoint, so that missile range quirk is even more useless than it would normally be.

Zeus 6T: PPCs are bad past medium-ish range, so a range quirk for them is pointless (velocity matters way more). Also, the missile range quirk is still pretty pointless but at least you got 3 launchers to use it on...

Zeus 9S: ERLL range, energy range, and energy cooldown make this the best Zeus for most purposes. The missile range quirk is still really pointless.

Edited by FupDup, 06 March 2015 - 04:02 PM.

[Greenjulius]

FupDup, on 06 March 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

Grasshopper 5J: Lol AMS range

5J gets two AMS, right? It acts basically like AMS range module. My view is that it is a free module...

[Nerxual]

Both new Mechs appear to be getting realitively moderate quirks. Probably the best way to go about a new release, I imagine we'll see changes a few weeks after their injection.

Need hard in-game evidence to decide on what needs changes.

Only 11 days!

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Armor quirks... hmmm.

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 06 March 2015 - 04:12 PM.

[ChapeL]

Yeah, let's see how they do before quirking them to hell and back.

[Greenjulius]

Because it is getting side torso armor quirks, the Zeus might be more acceptable to run an XL than I originally thought. 17 armor for each side torso is fairly significant... and the CT is getting the similar treatment, (+15 armor) so they should have side torso armor rivaling a 100 tonner.

The leg buffs are puzzling however. 17 per leg? They don't even look that big.

Edited by Greenjulius, 06 March 2015 - 04:45 PM.

[FupDup]

Greenjulius, on 06 March 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

The leg buffs are puzzling however. 17 per leg? They don't even look that big.

I'd rather have them transferred to the side torsos.

[Greenjulius]

FupDup, on 06 March 2015 - 04:43 PM, said:

I'd rather have them transferred to the side torsos.

I guess it allows you to strip the legs a little more than usual to put more tonnage up top, or helps if storing ammo in the legs.

[MechaBattler]

Pretty much everything FupDup said. I wish they would stop giving quirks for limited hard points. Unless it's a decent sized quirk, it doesn't help much. Though I suppose it's to encourage more diverse builds. But if you want most bang for you buck, you boat.

[InRev]

The initial quirk rage (Thunderbolt, Firestarters, Wubverine) has really taken its toll on the Resistance mechs. They've all been pretty badly undercooked.

I really hope the next IS quirk pass comes soon because the {R} ones have ranged from "meh" to "bad" to "wtf fire the quirk guy".

(with the exception of the Enforcer-4R)

[Malckovich]

Zeus missile range quirks should be cooldown to make it better

[Ultimax]

Greenjulius, on 06 March 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

Because it is getting side torso armor quirks, the Zeus might be more acceptable to run an XL than I originally thought. 17 armor for each side torso is fairly significant... and the CT is getting the similar treatment, (+15 armor) so they should have side torso armor rivaling a 100 tonner.

They will have armor rivaling a 100 tonner, but you still don't want to put XLs in mechs like an Atlas or a King Crab just because they have more armor there.


It really depends on what those ST hitboxes really are, and how physically large the Zeus is overall (looks pretty big, not Awesome big but still big).



Ultimately you can take a risk banking on the fact you have 17 extra armor in a location that can get you killed.


Vs. taking a STD engine and being able to potentially use an entire Arm and Side torso's worth of armor and internal structure before the enemy can even get to your CT.



For a Zeus that comparison becomes (leaving Internals out for sake of ease)

17 bonus armor + 58 (ST at 58/10) = 75
52 (arm) + 58 (ST at 58/10) 17 (bonus armor) + 90 (CT at 90/10) + 15 (bonus armor) = 232 (more than 3x as much)



To me, XL doesn't look all that appealing.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 06 March 2015 - 05:33 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Greenjulius, on 06 March 2015 - 03:57 PM, said:

As promised, PGI released the Grasshopper and Zeus quirks today. Lots of structure / armor buffs, and energy buffs for the grasshopper.

Discuss!

Quirks!

Zeus ZEU-6S{R} and ZEU-6S

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Additional Armor (CT) +15
  
• Additional Armor (LT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +17
  
• Ballistic Range +10%
  
• Ballistic Cooldown +12.5%
  
• Missile Range +12.5%
  
• AC/5 Range +10%

Zeus ZEU-6T

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Additional Armor (CT) +15
  
• Additional Armor (LT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +17
  
• Energy Range +10%
  
• Missile Range +12.5%
  
• Missile Cooldown +12.5%
  
• PPC Range +10%

Zeus ZEU-9S

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Additional Armor (CT) +15
  
• Additional Armor (LT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +17
  
• Energy Range +10%
  
• Energy Cooldown +12.5%
  
• Missile Range +12.5%
  
• ER Large Laser Range +10%

Grasshopper GHR-5J{R} and GHR-5J

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Acceleration Rate (Low, Med, High Speed) +10%
  
• Additional Armor (LA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (RA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +15
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +15
  
• Additional Structure (CT) +11
  
• Energy Cooldown +10%
  
• Energy Heat Generation -12.5%
  
• ER Large Laser Cooldown +10%
  
• AMS Range +10%

Grasshopper GHR-5H

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Acceleration Rate (Low, Med, High Speed) +10%
  
• Additional Armor (LA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (RA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +15
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +15
  
• Additional Structure (CT) +11
  
• Energy Cooldown +10%
  
• Energy Heat Generation -12.5%
  
• Missile Cooldown +12.5%
  
• Medium Laser Cooldown +10%

Grasshopper GHR-5N

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Acceleration Rate (Low, Med, High Speed) +10%
  
• Additional Armor (LA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (RA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +15
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +15
  
• Additional Structure (LT) +9
  
• Additional Structure (RT) +9
  
• Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5%
  
• Energy Cooldown +12.5%
  
• Energy Heat Generation -10%
  
• PPC Heat Generation -10%

Well. on paper, it appears they expect them to be near tier 2 fro the get go. Let's hope they are right.

For the Zeus, nothing wrong, though nothing exciting. Have a feeling it will get something added next pass. Do wish all the armor buffs were structure, instead, as structure seems to add more durability for some reason.

For the Hopper, I am a little dissapoint. Maybe it won't need it, but it's claims to fame were JJs, heavy armor and... super good heat efficiency. I would trade all the weapon quirks for more energy heat reduction.

That said, more interested in their agility stats, TBH,

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 06 March 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

They will have armor rivaling a 100 tonner, but you still don't want to put XLs in mechs like an Atlas or a King Crab just because they have more armor there.


It really depends on what those ST hitboxes really are, and how physically large the Zeus is overall (looks pretty big, not Awesome big but still big).



Ultimately you can take a risk banking on the fact you have 17 extra armor in a location that can get you killed.


Vs. taking a STD engine and being able to potentially use an entire Arm and Side torso's worth of armor and internal structure before the enemy can even get to your CT.



For a Zeus that comparison becomes (leaving Internals out for sake of ease)

17 bonus armor + 58 (ST at 58/10) = 75
52 (arm) + 58 (ST at 58/10) 17 (bonus armor) + 90 (CT at 90/10) + 15 (bonus armor) = 232



To me, XL doesn't look all that appealing.

yes, if armor was the only consideration I would agree. But the ability to mount more firepower and speed can be just as important. It will still depend a lot on the hitboxes, but the biggest myth is More Durability alone is the key to better survivability. HAving the speed to disengage or close range, and the firepower to more quickly dispatch an opponent can be just as important, if not more, to one's actual survivability.

Often times, having a mech do 5-600 damage and a couple kills and then die, early in the match is often more useful to the teams chances of winning then the zombie that gets the same stats but takes 15 minutes to get there. The faster the enemy dies, the better chance your team has of living.

So for me, it will 100% come down to the hitbox. The whole shoulder and that plate above the leg turns out to be ST, then it's a STD engine mech because it will be way too easily cored. If it have VTR sized STs or smaller? Then I will probably XL.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 06 March 2015 - 05:35 PM.

[Sjorpha]

Starting out carefully seems like a good approach, and those armour quirks on the Zeus are nothing to sneeze at actually, with the entire torso + legs being beefed up.

Grasshopper CT armour buff with no ST buff seems to emphasise the standard engine zombie builds over XL builds, which is fine with me.

PPC quirk on the 8 energy HP variant makes no sense to me, I can't see how such a small quirk for such a heavy weapon could motivate you to take PPCs over boating lasers, it won't be used. It should be a quirk that is useful for low tonnage laser weapons.

I like that the Zeus missile quirks are general and not specific, but I don't like that they won't make any difference. Range isn't very useful on either LRMs or SRMs. Why not introduce something new, like a missile velocity quirk?

Of all those mechs the Grasshopper 5H seems to have the best quirks. It will be able to do:
Std300 (76.4kph) LPL, 6ML, SRM4+1ton, 3JJ, 19DHS, now that is a pretty sweet build.
Having a laser vom alpha of 41 (49 up close) and a great zombie arsenal with LPL+SRM. I expect this to become my new favourite mech actually.

Don't really see ER large as a good option for the 5J, but I may be wrong.

I'm very disappointed to see no large pulse laser quirks, I think that is the energy weapon with the least number of mechs having quirks for it, which is sad as it is the most awesome weapon in the game (IMHO). Why not replace the

Edited by Sjorpha, 07 March 2015 - 04:11 AM.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 March 2015 - 05:34 PM, said:

yes, if armor was the only consideration I would agree. But the ability to mount more firepower and speed can be just as important. It will still depend a lot on the hitboxes, but the biggest myth is More Durability alone is the key to better survivability. HAving the speed to disengage or close range, and the firepower to more quickly dispatch an opponent can be just as important, if not more, to one's actual survivability.

I agree to a point, but we are at a stage in the game where alphas can be so large and punishing that when I see a Victor or Cataphract that has an XL, I know I'm going to get an easy kill.


When I see a Thunderbolt that most likely has a STD, if the player is even halfway decent at rolling damage I know I need to cut through quite a lot of mech before I can take it down.


The desire for big STD engines for good speed, is what drives the current laser heavy meta for IS mechs - which in turn is mostly a reaction to clan mechs.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 06 March 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

Grasshopper 5J: Lol AMS range

That was my first thought.

That dual AMS on the Thunderbolt-9S made it so OP. AMIRITE GUISE?