59 replies to this topic

[Threat Doc]

Okay, so, for the cheap seats, for you guys who do not understand what I was talking about, I was not complaining about a single game, I was talking about the problems taking place in those games. Whether my 'Mechs suck or not is not what I was trying to address; however, if it makes all of you feel better to accuse me of being a piss-poor pilot or bringing 'Mechs that suck, then you're too stupid to participate in this thread. In fact, I would like to see a few more answers that show more intelligence, such as others have written in this thread.

Pat Kell, on 07 March 2015 - 11:44 PM, said:

Guzzler is correct though, stop sitting in the back and letting your friends get spawn camped

Well, see, this is where you and Guzzler are incorrect; I was right in the middle of the action... I had not choice but to be there. Neither of you read my OP, did you? It figures; that's what I expect from individuals who think like you do.

YCSLiesmith, on 08 March 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

I notice you are in house Kurita.

Thank you, but I'm not a member of House Kurita, except by contract. The old friend of mine who's new to the game, has a contract with Kurita, so I agreed to go Kurita for the time being, especially since it doesn't mean **** to be in a faction, right now, to help him out with the game. No, I've been in BattleTech a long time, and I HATE House Kurita almost as much as I HATE-HATE the Capellan Confederation.

Now, for those of you in this thread who've chosen to be ignorant of the meaning of my OP, you guys can carry on your bone headed conversation without me. The idea is there are some things seriously wrong with the beta CW, and I provided ways to remedy these issues, and the negative morons who want to insult and be ignorant of that fact can just go play CW. Good day.

[Wingbreaker]

Yeah, unfortunately he was caught on C2 Drop Pad, and well...we all know what happens to C2 drop pad.

That being said, his team was of absolutely no help. There were people with under 100 damage who were NOT on c2.

Edited by Wingbreaker, 08 March 2015 - 09:08 AM.

[Wild_Alaskan]

Kay Wolf, on 08 March 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

No, I've been in BattleTech a long time, and I HATE House Kurita almost as much as I HATE-HATE the Capellan Confederation.

Noted. See you on the battlefield.

[ZenFool]

@OP

I am very sorry this happened to you, and by this I mean that you started a thread like this. Yours is one of any number of threads that decry the evils of spawn camping. You assume that no one cares, or are ignorant, etc. etc. etc. This is NOT the case. These people, despite their poor attitudes(in some cases) are trying to tell you what you did wrong. To be fair, the biggest mistake was trying to rely on 11 other guys with no clear way to communicate with them. Hard to say that's entirely your fault...Except PGI installed voice comms to alleviate this very problem.

As to your original fix for spawn camping...You are too late. Russ has already mentioned a change in defender drops that will help quite a bit. You'll be coming out of a bunker area instead of being dropped(sometimes with your back turned to enemy...) from a ship. I can't promise you this will help in every situation, but every little bit and all that.

So. Please try to reread the two pages of posts, ignore "get good" comments, and take some constructive criticism. Change up your drop deck, get on comms, watch a youtube video or twitch stream to familiarize yourself with the maps, etc. Here's hoping you and your friend stick with it long enough to enjoy a win or two, or at least a good fight.

[YCSLiesmith]

I recommend not ignoring suggestion to get good, actually.

[ZenFool]

YCSLiesmith, on 08 March 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

I recommend not ignoring suggestion to get good, actually.

The difference between "get good" posts and others are that others lay out steps to take to "get good" instead of being elitist about it.

[Aresye]

I agree with Zen. At this point we know the defender's drop points will at some point be switched over to a bunker based system, but I'm wary of how effective it will be, because if it's a singular location then spawn camping will be even easier for the attacking team.

What they need to do is give each player the option to choose which of the spawn locations they will drop/walk out from. Perhaps they could utilize a system similar to conquest to trigger certain events? For example, if the game detects attacking mechs inside the boundaries of Alpha gate on Sulfurous, the C2 pad is automatically disabled as a spawn point for the defending team.

[pbiggz]

never played this game, but my friend had it, you could pick your spawn location.

Edited by pbiggz, 08 March 2015 - 11:07 AM.

[Summon3r]

+1 .... This has been beat to death daily. Necromination posted a good partial solution to this issue, allow the dropping mech to choose it's drop zone which ever of the 3 dz's he thinks is safest. Still just a bandaid to very poor part of a very poor cw game.

[Richard Warts]

It's usually better to drop with new comers on public queue first, LRM boats survive a lot longer there than in CW.

[pbiggz]

pbiggz, on 08 March 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

never played this game, but my friend had it, you could pick your spawn location.

PS: when i say you could pick your spawn, i mean literally, you picked a target anywhere on the map and you dropped on it.

[crustydog]

Look at the player numbers.

If it is not fun,

Then it is broken.

Just fix it.

Programming 101.

[CtrlAltWheee]

The OP suggests bigger maps with random drop points.

This is how I imagined CW would be. A game of large scale where lights scout and the larger force positions itself based on that scouting. Also, if possible, multiple positions where fixed emplacements could be. So that each drop is fresh.

The random aspect of it might be bad for tournament play, but for CW I think it's more good than bad. And more true to the idea that we drop on a planet with what we have and make the best of the situations as we find them.

CW is fun. Not denying that. Definitely can be improved though.

[Pat Kell]

Kay, I didn't mean to be mean in my post, I just wanted to get the point across that there is 1 valid tactic to preventing spawn camping and that's defending the spawn area as best you can. Every single fix that has been proposed won't fix the issue of not putting yourself in harms way in an effort to support your team. Choosing your spawn point will just make people choose the furthest point away from the action and this will just allow either rapid destruction of omega or the team will just move up and spawn camp the new position. Making "no go" zones will allow people to sit in those zones and run the clock out. Every single fix I have seen either doesn't fix the problem or creates another "problem" that people will be upset about. The single best thing you can do is defend those drop zones. I'm not saying git good as I don't think that's the answer. I say get on a team or atleast work with your team to defend those zones. That is the only thing you can do in the current state. Once PGI changes things, there will be a new tactic developed by the good players that you will have to adapt to. If you were in the mix trying to defend the drop zone, then good on you but nothing I have seen will fix spawn camping except for meeting the enemy at the gates and not letting them push you back. Sorry if I offended you in my previous comments.

[Simbacca]

Summon3r, on 08 March 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

+1 .... This has been beat to death daily. Necromination posted a good partial solution to this issue, allow the dropping mech to choose it's drop zone which ever of the 3 dz's he thinks is safest. Still just a bandaid to very poor part of a very poor cw game.

However for some maps, the all 3 LZs are in the same plain - thus still have the same problem.

[mekabuser]

spawn camping needs to b met with aggression. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

id kamikaze the damn dropship if i could,,
i literally spawned ontop of 3 daishi the other night on my second spawn
its literally the worst respawn mechanic in the history of gaming

also" rewards arent good enof with just objective"? go *** urself with that reasoning for camping

[YCSLiesmith]

mekabuser, on 09 March 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

spawn camping needs to b met with aggression. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

id kamikaze the damn dropship if i could,,
i literally spawned ontop of 3 daishi the other night on my second spawn
its literally the worst respawn mechanic in the history of gaming

also" rewards arent good enof with just objective"? go *** urself with that reasoning for camping

Ok, how about this one then: rewards are really good with camping.

[Pat Kell]

Meka, by aggression I mean that the people who spawn in the other 2 "safe" drop zones need to stop sitting back and letting the 3rd spawn area to be over run. You need to move in and get in the enemies face...Get snarky all you want but if you sit in the back, your teammates are going to be camped. If you are the person dropping in the camped area, all you can do is focus on the first mech you see, drop an arty and alpha until you die...and then cuss your teammates out for letting you die so easily.

Edited by Pat Kell, 09 March 2015 - 09:33 PM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Because Sulfurus, more than the other two maps, has an ideal setup for getting camped on spawn, we actually post in chat to our pugs reminding them of it. That if the enemy pushes to there and starts to hold you RUSH the hell in and push them out, because letting them remain there and playing peekaboo with them will LOSE you that game.

Being aware of it's desirability for camping is the first step to setting up a defense that prevents it. Don't let them waltz in.

I'm sorry, but you're never going to remove the possibility of spawn-camping entirely. Period. If the enemy CAN push you back that far, and hold you, they will, because it's advantageous. And no matter HOW the map is designed, people are going to look for that optimal set of trades.

[pbiggz]

how to prevent spawn camps on sulfur: hold c2 so the attackers cant camp it, gamma isn't even close to as easy to camp as alpha is, and beta is useless. Incidentally holding c2 is also the most effective general defense of sulfur.

how to prevent spawn camps on boreal: you dont, if the attacking team was able to walk into your base without resistance then you deserve to be spawn camped, but in any case, most teams attrition from the e6 trench, far from the drop sites, and the way you defend against that is fall back to the base and force the attackers to poke you, meaning they will lose their advantage.

how to prevent spawn camps on hellbore springs: dont lose, the spawn for defenders is far back in the base and if they're camping you, it generally means your team is already on its last 10 mechs.

Also here is more of that section 8 drop footage



If defenders and attackers were able to choose their drop site based on say, a set of grid squares considered "secure" then it would solve spawn camping.

That sort of mechanic also introduces different aspects to the game, such as use of anti air weapons.

Edited by pbiggz, 10 March 2015 - 06:55 AM.