138 replies to this topic

[Zolaz]

When Wave 3 comes out and you get a Clan Firestarter with ECM and a brawling Medium with ECM ... both with more armament than any other mech with ECM other than an Atlas DDC ... there will be a real need for more BAP on mechs. Guess PGI needed to keep the lights on. Power creep is rough in a F2P game.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 08 March 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

Oh, but it does exist.

You're just being a teensy bit daft in defending your Jesus Box.

At this point, I'm tempted to write lines for a Magic Jesus Box song.

It would be glorious.

Edited by Deathlike, 08 March 2015 - 03:15 PM.

[Artgathan]

Zolaz, on 08 March 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:

When Wave 3 comes out and you get a Clan Firestarter with ECM and a brawling Medium with ECM ... both with more armament than any other mech with ECM other than an Atlas DDC ... there will be a real need for more BAP on mechs. Guess PGI needed to keep the lights on. Power creep is rough in a F2P game.

PGI posted a statistic some time ago that suggest more than 60% of mechs in the game mount BAP. I found that surprising.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

ECM is just brocken crap as it is now and anyone with a bit of common sense are aware of this.

It should:
- disrupt artemis
- disrupt streaks ( converting to normal srm)
- disrupt targeting info
- disrupt any info transmitting on a path
- longer locking time

and that is freaking all what ECM is supposed to do.

The thing is that current ECM is making this game just worst.
If we disable ECM now, game would be just plain better without it.
Nooobs that are afraid of lurmagedon are just meh, That is not going to happen.

keith, on 08 March 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

or make ecm like it supposed to be and only effect 1 mech?

From where did you get this? Not from BT for sure.

[Kjudoon]

red devil2, on 08 March 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

Guess what, I use raddep on each of my mechs and it's usually more than enough to save me from dumb lrm boats. Only when there's a scout I actually need to move to cover.

Sometimes I use lrms myself on a maddog, just for fun. I carry 3xLRM5, 3xSRM6, 4xML and a TAG. It's a terrible build but it works quite well because I never engege if I the distance from my target is greater than 500/600m. I use lrm only while closing in and while tagging my target. Then I brawl at ~200m so both my misseles works at best. And guess what again, I don't care if my target has a useless ecm because I have a tag and I'm not spamming my missiles from 1000m! That's the problem with lots of lrm noobs: they want to fire their missiles at max range and cry if they can't. Ecm is a useless device if you use your brain and counter it.

Btw, if you use your brain you quickly realize that a ppc, gr or large laser are better than any lrm boat.

You're right. Raderp is the poor man's everymech ECM. No weight. No skill. I learned about it the day it came out. I use it so rarely because I'm not buying multiple copies and don't bother searching for it. I play generally without that crutch.

And what's wrong about demanding an effective weapon at max range? We hear it all the time from ERspammers. Of course, I generally don't have much problem hitting targets with LRMs at 1000-1250m with LRMs because I know when to fire them, and when they're being used for psychological effect. To sit there and smugly claim it's only LRM noobs (an absolutely idiotic term to use, particularly when you believe it is true) use ranges that far out, you underestimate the fact that so many are overconfident enough to let you hit them at least once.

I can tell you are offended that I would use equal logical stance on the magic box of ECM and the crutch status of broken AMS by the same standards used on LRMs. It's never fun when sacred cows get gored.

BTW, here's the old CPLT C1 Founders back when it was actually a serious threat and before it succumbed to whine poisoning.

Quote

Shared targeting has got to go, before you change anything.

Of course. We wouldn't want to have indirect fire in the game, after all. Being able to lob weapons over walls like humans have been doing on the battlefield since the thrown rock was invented is OP.

Let me ask this. Since LRMs in a direct fire path are irrelevant thanks to the LB10x doing EXACTLY the same thing, how do you propose to do a non-spotted indirect fire weapon in this game? I've been trying to think up a concept for that using Mech Mortars for a suggestion. The problem is setting range, let alone gauging range without the blessing of true natural binocular vision..

Jaeger Gonzo, on 08 March 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

ECM is just brocken crap as it is now and anyone with a bit of common sense are aware of this.

It should:
- disrupt artemis
- disrupt streaks ( converting to normal srm)
- disrupt targeting info
- disrupt any info transmitting on a path
- longer locking time

and that is freaking all what ECM is supposed to do.

The thing is that current ECM is making this game just worst.
If we disable ECM now, game would be just plain better without it.
Nooobs that are afraid of lurmagedon are just meh, That is not going to happen.


From where did you get this? Not from BT for sure.

You forgot "disrupt crosshairs". The mechanic is that ECM scrambles targetting computers according to the devs. So your HUD targeting should go down too. Sorry DF guys, it should make your shooting much harder too.

Artgathan, on 08 March 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

PGI posted a statistic some time ago that suggest more than 60% of mechs in the game mount BAP. I found that surprising.

Any data pre CW is now outdated. Any data older than 6 months can be safely ignored. The game has changed that much.

Zolaz, on 08 March 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:

When Wave 3 comes out and you get a Clan Firestarter with ECM and a brawling Medium with ECM ... both with more armament than any other mech with ECM other than an Atlas DDC ... there will be a real need for more BAP on mechs. Guess PGI needed to keep the lights on. Power creep is rough in a F2P game.

They'd have been better off pursuing PvE content packs and missions instead of mechs with crutches that slowly break the game.

Edited by Kjudoon, 08 March 2015 - 05:19 PM.

[wanderer]

HellJumper, on 08 March 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

The game is turning into Ecm counter/ disrupt mechs.

we have enough atm in the game..after wave three lets not have more ecm mechs..

More. ECM has finally hit the point where saturation makes it's flaws glaring: A system that exists specifically to kill information gathering, negates an entire class of weapon systems, and ninja-cloaks entire groups in it's power to make them invisible despite having line-of-sight. We need ECM to become so common, it stops being off the list for fixing.

A broken system does not get fixed until it can be abused to the point of intolerance.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Kjudoon, on 08 March 2015 - 05:12 PM, said:

You forgot "disrupt crosshairs". The mechanic is that ECM scrambles targetting computers according to the devs. So your HUD targeting should go down too. Sorry DF guys, it should make your shooting much harder too.

Not sure what you mean by "disrupt crosshairs", some sort of hud flickering or something? I think Im against that. No targeting info and longer lock time is enough for making "shooting harder".

[Kjudoon]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 08 March 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

Not sure what you mean by "disrupt crosshairs", some sort of hud flickering or something? I think Im against that. No targeting info and longer lock time is enough for making "shooting harder".

Either knock them out as if the hud as off, or make it like the JJ jiggle.

[wanderer]

Deathlike, on 08 March 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

At this point, I'm tempted to write lines for a Magic Jesus Box song.

It would be glorious.

"Jesusbox Built My Hotrod."
"You Have A Friend In Jesusbox".
"Me and My Jesus Box" (Information Society, naturally)

Jaeger Gonzo, on 08 March 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

Not sure what you mean by "disrupt crosshairs", some sort of hud flickering or something? I think Im against that. No targeting info and longer lock time is enough for making "shooting harder".

If every weapon system had the same issues lock-ons do with ECM, it'd get nerfed in days.

[Eider]

Solution? take some non lrm weapons in a match.. its like.. magic.

[Havyek]

If you're running LRMs for your main weapon system, and you're not running BAP, TAG, Artemis, or any combination, you're doing it wrong.

[El Bandito]

HiasRGB, on 08 March 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

Cant change ECM-Mechanic, before change LRM-Mechanic.

Use real Weapons and you will hit ECM-Mechs

Look at your post, now back to my first one. Now back at your post, now back to mine. Sadly, your post is not as well liked as mine. But if you stop posting non-sense and start using your brain, your post could be liked like mine.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Nope really, no targeting info is quiet enough. You don`t know where to shot, spread damage easier.

Havyek, on 08 March 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

If you're running LRMs for your main weapon system, and you're not running BAP, TAG, Artemis, or any combination, you're doing it wrong.

ECM crap BS has nothing to little with LRM.

[Artgathan]

Kjudoon, on 08 March 2015 - 05:12 PM, said:

Any data pre CW is now outdated. Any data older than 6 months can be safely ignored. The game has changed that much.

The data is more recent than 6 months, but is pre-CW (I think it was released in November). Even so, it may still hold true for the PUG queue regardless.

[Mcgral18]

Eider, on 08 March 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

Solution? take some non lrm weapons in a match.. its like.. magic.

Already done; an entire family of weapons never to be touched again.


Perfectly balanced.

[Kjudoon]

Mcgral18, on 08 March 2015 - 06:26 PM, said:

Already done; an entire family of weapons never to be touched again.


Perfectly balanced.

And the goal of the LRMQQbrigade will have been accomplished.

[FupDup]

Kalo Shin, on 08 March 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

I'm sorry but I don't think this thread is about "What ifs", Fupdup. ECM Does not make a mech inherently overpowered like everyone in this thread is implying (Cicada 3m anyone?). And there are certainly effective ways of dealing with it that people just don't care to do because I guess it affects their PPA's.

The flaw with your argument is that you're looking at the overall variants/chassis rather than the individual piece of equipment being talked about. For example, the Cicada 3M itself has substantial weaknesses built in to its chassis...but those weaknesses have absolutely nothing to do with ECM itself. If you took away the ECM then the Cicada 3M would become that much worse of a mech. The same goes for the Atlas DDC, Spider 5D, etc. Similarly, if you added ECM to the Timberwolf or Stormcrow, they would become stronger as a result.

You're missing the forest for the trees. This isn't a discussion about the mechs that carry ECM, this is a discussion about the ECM component itself.

[zeta44]

*evil laugh*
Half my drop deck carries ECM's

[Kjudoon]

Shot of your mech bay then?





My only one is named Crutches but is a RVN 3L

Edited by Kjudoon, 08 March 2015 - 06:46 PM.

[GeneralArmchair]

wanderer, on 08 March 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

More. ECM has finally hit the point where saturation makes it's flaws glaring: A system that exists specifically to kill information gathering, negates an entire class of weapon systems, and ninja-cloaks entire groups in it's power to make them invisible despite having line-of-sight. We need ECM to become so common, it stops being off the list for fixing.

A broken system does not get fixed until it can be abused to the point of intolerance.

While I agree in general, I don't think we've hit that saturation point quite yet. C-bill Lokis brings us close though. I think it will take clan wave 3 and an eventual IS heavy ECM mech like the Black Knight trickling down to c-bill purchases before PGI will be forced to face the facts.