69 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

Mandrakerootes, on 09 March 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

I am open for any tactic that doesnt involve ghost dropping(aka Genwarrior Online).
If the only way we win the war, is not fighting the battles for us, then so be it. Then we lose the war.

Agreed, as annoying as it is to get rolled occasionally generator rushes and ghost drops are boring as f.

[Tarn Devereux]

sycocys, on 09 March 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

Agreed, as annoying as it is to get rolled occasionally generator rushes and ghost drops are boring as f.

Well until they get rid of those stupid things (ghost drops) we have very poor odds.

[Tordin]

Ghost dropping is getting real old. And it dosent make that much sense, that any faction would leave a world undefended, from a "real life/ military" perspective. Cant believe ghost dropping happened in BT lore either. At least there were other military hardware than mechs (if those werent avaiable) around to defend, besides turrets

[Davegt27]

starting today I have joined the FRR

[Mandrakerootes]

Tordin, on 09 March 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

Ghost dropping is getting real old. And it dosent make that much sense, that any faction would leave a world undefended, from a "real life/ military" perspective. Cant believe ghost dropping happened in BT lore either. At least there were other military hardware than mechs (if those werent avaiable) around to defend, besides turrets

Well, the Ghost Drop is kind of a free win, and considering that milita forces arent a real threat to a military force, I guess those other assets just get wiped out. And are simulated by turrets in the game. See ghost dropping as a n attack without a fair amount of defenders. There might be some, but you simply overpower them without any real fight(because PGI hasnt implemented anything but battlemechs). But besides that, yes ghostdrops are not the best thing in the world.

But they are necessary, because else people could just not show up for a defense, and attackers wouldnt be able to threaten a planet. If there is a better system, feel free to suggest it, it is desperately needed.

[Klappspaten]

Davegt27, on 09 March 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

starting today I have joined the FRR

Excelent choice.
Make sure to drop by the FRR hub TS3 server. We got open groups running almost every day in the EU and US cycles. Good people, good fights and shitloads of clanner stomping.

frrhub.tk:9725
pw: Dragon

[Klappspaten]

Mandrakerootes, on 09 March 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

Well, the Ghost Drop is kind of a free win, and considering that milita forces arent a real threat to a military force, I guess those other assets just get wiped out. And are simulated by turrets in the game. See ghost dropping as a n attack without a fair amount of defenders. There might be some, but you simply overpower them without any real fight(because PGI hasnt implemented anything but battlemechs). But besides that, yes ghostdrops are not the best thing in the world.

But they are necessary, because else people could just not show up for a defense, and attackers wouldnt be able to threaten a planet. If there is a better system, feel free to suggest it, it is desperately needed.

I think it would be really nice if there where ai tanks and helicopters there, not enough to beat an good, organized unit drop but enough to beat a bunch of PUGs.
That would leave the tactic open for the units, and discourage it for PUG groups. Would be a lot harder to perform ghost drop campaigns that go over hours..

[Mandrakerootes]

moving tanks with 2 Large Lasers that have 110% accuracy and helicopters with 4 LRM 10 launchers that just cycle directly above you, together with turrets and infantry that can climb up your mech and kill your pilot with nothing you can do? Sounds good .

Wouldnt mind it, because only the clans really ghost drop us =P

[Divine Retribution]

Nice dropping with you tonight callmejon. I hope you saw what we meant when we said we just need manpower. Zero lost matches, still lost a planet. It's sad we'll be ghost dropped out of existence, but it is what it is.

EDIT: Welcome to the FRR callmejon and Davegt27, the home of hard mode.

Edited by Divine Retribution, 09 March 2015 - 10:11 PM.

[callmejon]

i do and you guys do very well, great numbers every match tonight from all of OLD that last ghost drop really screwed it though.
GG's tonight

[Amsro]

Tarn Devereux, on 09 March 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

Well until they get rid of those stupid things (ghost drops) we have very poor odds.

This is false, if it were not for clammers ghost dropping to defend planets just before ceasefire we would have a large amount of planets still.

They take planets while we sleep in oceanic time zone and ghost drop us to stop us from taking planets that we've won EVERY* match on.

*not every, but a high % of them.

It is what it is and I still enjoy playing the matches. But without Ghost Dropping our chances go up considerably.

[Divine Retribution]

But we can't get rid of ghost drops. Without ghost drops all we would have to do is not defend a planet to keep it.....

[Abivard]

Make the timer 30 minutes instead of 10 for the ghost drops.

[EldenLance]

No tanks? Fine. Then they have to put some AIs in stock and champion mechs against the attackers. So that the fight takes some time at least. Even if it is an easy fight and takes only 15 minutes instead of 28 of a regular one, it would take 25 mins in total, which is comparable to the regular match time-wise.

[ClaymoreReIIik]

If we would get our act together and control American and European timezone they can do as they please during oceanic and still not gain ground.

Fact is, we don't control european and american timezones at this moment....lets work on that.

[ClaymoreReIIik]

EldenLance, on 10 March 2015 - 03:16 AM, said:

No tanks? Fine. Then they have to put some AIs in stock and champion mechs against the attackers. So that the fight takes some time at least. Even if it is an easy fight and takes only 15 minutes instead of 28 of a regular one, it would take 25 mins in total, which is comparable to the regular match time-wise.

Why fight against noone at all? Let the timer be 25 minutes and award the sector without launching into anything. It is stupid to launch players onto a game server and take up resources, when the result is a foregone conclusion anyway. If the timer is 25 minutes, then the chances are much higher to actually muster a defensive squad. There is absolutely 0 use in the empty drops to be fought. Nobody is interested in the XP/C-bills from the turrets....

[EldenLance]

ClaymoreReIIik, on 10 March 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

Why fight against noone at all? Let the timer be 25 minutes and award the sector without launching into anything. It is stupid to launch players onto a game server and take up resources, when the result is a foregone conclusion anyway. If the timer is 25 minutes, then the chances are much higher to actually muster a defensive squad. There is absolutely 0 use in the empty drops to be fought. Nobody is interested in the XP/C-bills from the turrets....

And that depends entirely on the quality of the AI. Some pugs may even get rolled by those things. (Ofcorse you've noticed that i'm not talking about turrets here, right?)
It is not stupid, its called coop.

And, by the way, they may get the incomplete groups pulled into the fight to defend with AIs. Probably even make bots that recieve player's orders. (if it was possible in MW3/4 why it isnt possible nowadays?)

I personally would prefer to actually attack bots then just to wait for 25mins. (I feel I need to remind again that i'm not talking about turrets, or turret-like "AIs". People seem to not quite get it.)
And how about defending in a premade of six with six bots under your command? That would clearly drive some pugs off with ease.

TL,DR: I vote for playing instead of waiting.

[ClaymoreReIIik]

EldenLance, on 10 March 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

And that depends entirely on the quality of the AI. Some pugs may even get rolled by those things. (Ofcorse you've noticed that i'm not talking about turrets here, right?)
It is not stupid, its called coop.

And, by the way, they may get the incomplete groups pulled into the fight to defend with AIs. Probably even make bots that recieve player's orders. (if it was possible in MW3/4 why it isnt possible nowadays?)

I personally would prefer to actually attack bots then just to wait for 25mins. (I feel I need to remind again that i'm not talking about turrets, or turret-like "AIs". People seem to not quite get it.)
And how about defending in a premade of six with six bots under your command? That would clearly drive some pugs off with ease.

TL,DR: I vote for playing instead of waiting.

You have an understaffed development team that is fighting the cryengine tooth and nail to do things like netcode in a somewhat acceptable way. You have a community that is finding the weaknesses in design within a week with an insanely fast adjusting metagame. And you think it would be a solid decision to spend development time on an AI? Seriously?

Whats killing the FRR is that sheer numbers of clan players drown out any effort the FRR can come up with offensivly. The teams that still play FRR win their drops. By a big margin. Its just pointless to win the drop in 5 minutes of waiting + 25 minutes of playing when in the 30 minutes your inside the clan team can ghost drop 3 sectors back. 2 during your playtime and one that just went in when you got ready again after taking a piss and a cigarette.

The empty drops are taking up server resources. The server needs to connect all the clients involved, synchronize the game state with them yadda yadda yadda. Bandwith is used and all kinds of expenses (even if they are minor, they are present) are generated. This is not a smart (business) decision.

Thats the issue with the ghost drops. Yanking the timer up so that ghost dropping can only even out the performance of a group instead of surpassing it, while actually not using server resources for a foregone conclusion would kill multiple flies with one strike.

I am much more a fan of playing then gaining things without effort, but beating up a couple of PuGs with bot support would not be more challenge then beating up 12 PuGs. 25 Minute time for 12 man defensive team to form would most likely lead to more drops played then ghost-farmed, too.

Edited by ClaymoreReIIik, 10 March 2015 - 05:57 AM.

[Klappspaten]

I think we can agree that the current ghostdrop system sucks. There has to be a better way.

[EldenLance]

ClaymoreReIIik, on 10 March 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

...
And you think it would be a solid decision to spend development time on an AI? Seriously?
...

Well, since AI is planned anyway, I'd like to see it implemented into CW as well. Why not?
Yanking the timer up though may be a nice placeholder untill the AI is done.(yes, it may take quite a time, since it isnt the priority. Maybe half a year or even more.)

We arent ghost dropped solely by 12man premades - there are pugs as well. Those guys will be buisy shooting bots and wont take 3 sectors while we fight for one. They may even lose. A team that cannot break AIs hardly deserves to win a sector for free. In the same time some elite companies should be pummeling through militia units (PUGs and AIs alike) and should take sectors relatively fast.

Another thing i'd like them to add, that may facilitate the forming of defence groups and counter ghost droping is some kind of ghost drop warning sign that appears when a ghost drop is already underway(or was held within 30min), similar to call to arms sign. Maybe a similar sigh should be present in case of PUGs defending against premades. So organised groups will be able to... well... organise.=)